Originally posted by whiterabbit85
Id rather see controlled torture than hundreds of thousands of rogue soldiers armed to the teeth following noone's lead, yes.

I'd rather see hundreds and thousands of rogue soldiers running around. Eventually, some of them who have the capacity to think may just wonder what they are really fighting for and decide to quit. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers running around, without orders, will not run around for too long before they disperse and go their own ways.

I applaud this soldier's decision to question Obama. If only more soldiers questioned orders and refused to do the crap that they're asked...

'Following orders' is giving up free will. I always question people, particularly soldiers, who so readily give up their free will. Maybe something in their genetics makes them want to wear dog tags? I don't understand it.

Originally posted by groingrinder
If there was nothing fishy, Obama would have published his birth certificate to clear everything up. The failure of Obama to provide a birth certificate indicates that Obama thinks there is a problem with it.

Exactly, What's to hide or dodge if you truly are a citizen of the USA.

Simple logic here folks.

Either you were born in the USA or your were not.

I'd rather see hundreds and thousands of rogue soldiers running around. Eventually, some of them who have the capacity to think may just wonder what they are really fighting for and decide to quit. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers running around, without orders, will not run around for too long before they disperse and go their own ways.

I applaud this soldier's decision to question Obama. If only more soldiers questioned orders and refused to do the crap that they're asked...

'Following orders' is giving up free will. I always question people, particularly soldiers, who so readily give up their free will. Maybe something in their genetics makes them want to wear dog tags? I don't understand it.

Basically that is what we call anarchy then ?

If you allow a soldier to question his superiors, meaning every officer up to the highest in command, then you could hardly call it an army ?

If every employer would start to question his chief upto the CEO, then who would still carry out orders ?

Obama has been elected by a majority of votes of American citizens, birthcertificate or not, he represent the people of the USA.

I guess we have lots of CEO and politicians with a long list of criminal facts on their name, but they still remain in place ?

Just try to challenge your CEO on the job, you will likely be fired on the spot.

And especially in the army, hierarchy is of the biggest importance for it to work properly.

Time will tell, but my guess would be, court martial.....

Originally posted by Emipie
Basically that is what we call anarchy then ?

Yeah, it would be anarchy. Anarchy doesn't have to be the evil word that many people make it seem to be.

If you allow a soldier to question his superiors, meaning every officer up to the highest in command, then you could hardly call it an army ?

That's right. Wouldn't the world be a so much more peaceful place without armies?

If every employer would start to question his chief upto the CEO, then who would still carry out orders ?

That analogy doesn't work. If you don't like what your boss tells you to do, then quit or be fired. That's exercising your free will if you choose to quit.

Originally posted by nj2day
Unfortunately, the soldier will end up in court martial...

Obama has been sworn in as president... Thus, he is president, even if he is ineligible.

The military will tell him that its not his job to ask credentials of his president, and that he took an oath to follow the orders of the president.

If he follows through with his dissent, it will result in a court martial and possibly jail time.

Even if you doubt his eligibility for presidency, He still currently holds the position, and thus, still is the president.

Yep, as you mentioned our general orders state to obey lawful orders, it doesn't say anything about the lawfulness of the person who gave those orders, just that they are higher in your chain of command.

Funny, how we didn't see more people disobeying the unlawful orders of torture at abu grhaib and guantanamo... but this guy throws a fit over this?

I'm sorry, but PUhlease.....

Originally posted by tezzajw

That's right. Wouldn't the world be a so much more peaceful place without armies?

But... uh... How would we hold up our handsies without armies?

Had to say it

Originally posted by tezzajw
Yeah, it would be anarchy. Anarchy doesn't have to be the evil word that many people make it seem to be.

Anarchy should not be evil indeed, but it doesn't work when we're talking about army.

That's right. Wouldn't the world be a so much more peaceful place without armies?

I agree, but now we are supposing we dont have any armies anywhere in the world. I was only referring to the us-army and anarchy, and this would leave the US pretty defenseless.

That analogy doesn't work. If you don't like what your boss tells you to do, then quit or be fired. That's exercising your free will if you choose to quit.

Sure the analogy works perfect, as you say yourself. If a soldier doesn't like what he is ordered to do, he has a free choice to leave the army or will be forced to do so.

Originally posted by ChrisCrikey
We are a nation of laws. As the law stands our President has been legally elected and has assumed full command of his office. The question of President Obama's citizenship and eligibility for presidency has already been reviewed by the Supreme Court of the United States.
A member of our armed forces must pledge to uphold the Constitution and the laws of our country. The President is that soldier's commander in chief. As the law is this soldier doesn't have a foot to stand on. The law is the law and if he so chooses he can disobey the law and military command and face the consequences.

So where was this soldier when Bush was ripping our constitution to shreds and nonchalantly commenting that 'It is just a piece of paper"?

It would have made more sense for him to make a call of action at the time that the constitution was under attack.

This is just a juvenile temper tantrum because America voted in a President with more melanin then his racist psyche can handle.

I think that he is doing all of us a favor.

Hopefully he will be kicked out of the military because the military can not afford to have any more enemies within.

We have already had too many cases of friendly fire and this does not seem to be a guy that I would want to be with in the trenches.

Forgive me for asking, but i'm not American and not familiar with your laws.

But would it make any difference if he was not born in the US ?

And i do not talk about any law now, but just about his intentions, his effort on doing the right thing for the people ?

I mean, he was voted President of the US by the majority of the people, because of his believes and political view.

Obama being born in the US or not would seem only to be 'a small detail' for the people who actually believe in him.
But offcourse it would be the 'excellent excuse' to get him out of the job for his opponents.

Dunno if this was a joke or not but long ago i heard the rumor of 'Arnie running for office' and he ain't born in the US either, is he ?

Hi, first time, long time. It's a pleasure. Anyway. Other presidents were not required to show their birth certificate to the general public because we knew they were American. There are enough questions and inconsisitencies with this man that it is not an unfair request for Americans to want proof that their president is American. Imagine, in these times we are in, the implications of having a president who is not American or may not have our best interest at heart because he is not one of us so to speak. I know I know, The whole our best interest part is bs but you get my point.

I will say this. From the 1st time I saw he was running for pres, I knew there was no way he was going to lose this election. Our government would not allow it to happen. They wanted to oust republicans, as did the majority of the country, they needed a new face to represent us. They needed someone who was a very good speaker after watching Bush stumble through his words. They needed change and they needed someone who would ease things with foreign relations because of his nationality. You know, everyone brings race up. But can you imagine if we had a black man get that far in the election only to lose. We would have racial wars all over again. There was no way they were going to let him lose. No way.

I have no doubt that if they needed to cover up the fact that he was not born here, they would have. They do what they want. Everyone here reads what's going on on a daily basis now. For people to say that they would have found out and brought it up is contradicting themselves. How can you not trust government, believe the things that we here believe about our government, and then say they would have told us. Doesn't fit folks.

Just want to say that I am here every day. I love this site. I love reading everyone's thoughts and opinions. I love seeing all the research and time everyone dedicates to their views and this site. There are so many things going on now, just crazy times and who knows where it will take us in the end. In the meantime, visiting this site and reading everything from everyone has brought some enjoyment to what otherwise would be some very dark times. Enjoy all. I look forward to watching our world do whatever it's going to do with all of you.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Now, a solider CAN disobey an unlawful order. For example, something against the geneva convention ... or murder etc.

This is not a reply against you, Hunka. No flames intended your way.

To me, this statement highlights the entire hypocrisy of war, conventions and definitions. If a soldier refuses to murder, then he wouldn't be pulling his trigger under ANY circumstances.

What else does a soldier do in a firefight other than murder other people?

Murder is the act of deliberately killing another person, right?

Originally posted by 5thElement
This is beyond unbelievable...

Since when soldiers have rights to question orders ???

Depends on the place the orders are coming from. Are you suggesting that soldiers obey any order that comes his/her way? Without caring whether the order was issued by someone with the right to issue it?

So the enemy could order them and they should not question?

Really, it is incumbent upon the soldier to ensure that the orders received are from legitimate orderers.