Soldier doubts ( Obama's) eligibility, defies president's orders

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Hence the reason we don't like having another

Really? We still defend Bush, it seems like after Obama came in, all of a sudden we had a rush of wanting to bring the bastard back in.

And YOU think adding a trillion more on top of this so that the national endowment for the arts and crap like that is caring about the economy??

Here's something I ask of everyone who is against the bailouts, what would YOU do? What is your plan? And I always hear the same; 'I don't know', or it's 'I wouldn't do that!' or 'I would do nothing'.

Okay, so you complain about the plan but offer NO solution...why am I listening to you then? So let the economy fall, fine with me, TPTB want it, the Republicans want it, their supporters want it, let's make it a joyride to Hell like riding the atomic bomb to the ground, yelling and cheering as you fall.

That is about the ONLY thing we DO know about this guy.

WTF are you talking about? Out of EVERYTHING you've seen, heard and read, you only know THIS? In the end, that's what this WHOLE thing is about, his damn name being of OBVIOUS ties to terrorists; DESPITE Hawaii confirming the certificate, and people online making obvious photoshops themselves, we keep staying on it and ignoring and pushing back everything else. You want a copy mailed to you?

Goddamn the so-called 'War on Terror', the American public has learned NOTHING. We say we have, that we're tolerant, but reality is, we are more paranoid over NAMES among other things, than actually focusing on anything else. Instead of going forward, we keep going back and clogging up the courts and time for this bull#.

Looks like the only conspiracy in this story is the Republicans and far-right still being bitter over losing and not having support anymore because of their laziness and pathetic job in Congress. You want to use fuel for a conspiracy? Use FACTS, something that has NOT been explained away and CANNOT be explained away so easily; like Foster's suicide letter. All you do here is make the rest of the CTists look like idiots and nuts

[edit on 3-3-2009 by Darky6K]

Originally posted by Aermacchi
The birth certificate Obama has produced is official, re-issued by the state of Hawaii. But it is not the original.

§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18. source

In other words, certified copies have the same legal value as the originals.

Hawaii at the time would issue a birth certificate to a child if the parents had residence in Hawaii in the past year, no matter where the child was born. ...

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

Again with this? We've been over §338-17.8 a dozen times now.

§338-17.8 was enacted in 1982 (as noted on the page). In 1961, Obama's parents couldn't have registered him in Hawaii if his birth place wasn't Hawaii.

D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.

What? That's not what §338-17 says at all.

Here's what §338-17 says:

§338-17 Late or altered certificate as evidence. The probative value of a “late” or “altered” certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. [L 1949, c 327, §21; RL 1955, §57-20; HRS §338-17; am L 1997, c 305, §4]

A late or altered certificate would require determination by a judicial or administrative body before being offered as evidence. In other words, the state of Hawaii understands how a late or altered could undermine the value of the original records and provides additional provisions for its consideration.

Basically they are saying that if you have a late or altered certificate, you'd have to go through more procedures before they consider the value of what's in it. And, as noted on the page, this statute was existent in 1961.


First of all Obama's certificate isn't a late certificate, because according to Hawaii statutes a late certificate is one that:

(e) As used in this section, “late” means one year or more after the date of birth. source

Obama's registration date is August 8 1961, 4 days after birth.

And Obama's certificate isn't an "altered" certificate either. How do I know this? Again, according to Hawaii's statutes:

§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates. (a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”. source

Obama's certificate isn't distinctly marked "late" or "altered" nor does its registration date (August 8 1961) would conform to a late registration (as his registration date isn't 1+ year older than birth date).

And since we know that in 1961, §338-17.8 wasn't enacted yet, it wouldn't be possible to alter his original records to Hawaii if they said Kenya, because it wouldn't be possible to register him in the first place if he had been born out of state.

And even if legally they could, an alteration to a birth certification requires documented evidence to support the alteration, and if it doesn't, the State doesn't accept the alteration.

Again, from Hawaii's statutes:

(b) A summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for late filing or the alteration shall be endorsed on the certificates.
(d) When an applicant does not submit the minimum documentation required by the rules for late registration or when the state registrar finds reasons to question the validity or adequacy of the certificate or the documentary evidence, the state registrar shall not register the late certificate and shall advise the applicant of the reason for this action. source

What Hawaii statutes clearly demonstrate is that Obama's certificate isn't a "late" or "altered" certificate.

It means that whatever information was put into Obama's original records, they were done in August 8 1961, and have not been altered.

Since in 1961 it wasn't possible to register out of state births in Hawaii (§338-17.8), his parents couldn't have registered him without documented evidence that he was born in Hawaii and no place else (§338-5).


In light of this, the statements by Director Fukino couldn't be clearer: Obama's original certificate is on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

I'm starting to think that some people don't understand not because they can't, but because they don't want to.



[edit on 3-3-2009 by converge]

Originally posted by Darky6K
Really? We still defend Bush, it seems like after Obama came in, all of a sudden we had a rush of wanting to bring the bastard back in.

I wouldn't worry about Bush coming back so can we get back to the present rather than polluting it with more of the past.

Here's something I ask of everyone who is against the bailouts, what would YOU do? What is your plan? And I always hear the same; 'I don't know', or it's 'I wouldn't do that!' or 'I would do nothing'.

Just watch, I love it when people ask questions, then they actually ANSWER the question FOR ME, like you have obviously done by your next quote:

Okay, so you complain about the plan but offer NO solution...why am I listening to you then?

Sounds to me like you are having an argument with yourself guy, I can't help it you think the answers you're getting are totally ignorant but consider the source!

So let the economy fall, fine with me, TPTB want it, the Republicans want it, their supporters want it, let's make it a joyride to Hell like riding the atomic bomb to the ground, yelling and cheering as you fall

And you got this prophesy from an alternate reality or did Sylvia Brown tell you this?

.

WTF are you talking about? Out of EVERYTHING you've seen, heard and read, you only know THIS? In the end, that's what this WHOLE thing is about, his damn name being of OBVIOUS ties to terrorists; DESPITE Hawaii confirming the certificate,

I'm sorry did you miss all the posts proving that the state didn't do JACK SQUAT? Show me Genius where the State verfies what Hospital he was born in and what state? Share with me if you would be so kind, who the Doctor was that delivered him like they made McCain do for you guys. Then, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, how it is the anti Obama people are the ones making the photoshopped COLB's when It could just as easily been the ObamaBorg flooding the internet with this bunk as it would paint Obama as a victim and THAT is more his style. Regardless,, COLB's are MEANINGLESS and the state he says he got it from even rejects them in most cases!

You want a copy mailed to you?

Is that something you can do?

Or are you just being a smart azz

Goddamn the so-called 'War on Terror', the American public has learned NOTHING. We say we have, that we're tolerant, but reality is, we are more paranoid over NAMES among other things, than actually focusing on anything else. Instead of going forward, we keep going back and clogging up the courts and time for this bull#.

Yeah I know what you mean, clogging up the courts could end today if Obama would simply do what anyone in his position SHOULD do, the same thing McCain did when asked and many more before him. But just what is your problem with it I'd like to know.

Looks like the only conspiracy in this story is the Republicans and far-right still being bitter over losing and not having support anymore because of their laziness and pathetic job in Congress. You want to use fuel for a conspiracy?

Well unlike you, I think ALL of em are a bunch of bums but if you want to talk about lazy,, THE DEMOCRATS DON'T EVEN GIVE a crap about WHETHER ANYONE FROM ANYWHERE RUNS FOR PRESIDENT IN THAT PARTY! NOW THAT"S!!!

PATHETIC!

All you do here is make the rest of the CTists look like idiots and nuts

Then why are you talking to me?

Originally posted by converge

§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18. source

In other words, certified copies have the same legal value as the originals.

Sorry it isn't the Genuine Article and until he has the guts to show the genuine article unless he has lied or has something to hide,, their is no other reason for showing us what everey crackpot fraud has shown us and the last person I am going to trust is someone so damn secretive about his backround, is a damn politician, a LAWYER yet, and says, "Just trust me"

Hawaii at the time would issue a birth certificate to a child if the parents had residence in Hawaii in the past year, no matter where the child was born. ...

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

Again with this? We've been over §338-17.8 a dozen times now.

§338-17.8 was enacted in 1982 (as noted on the page). In 1961, Obama's parents couldn't have registered him in Hawaii if his birth place wasn't Hawaii.

D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.

What? That's not what §338-17 says at all.

Here's what §338-17 says:

§338-17 Late or altered certificate as evidence. The probative value of a “late” or “altered” certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. [L 1949, c 327, §21; RL 1955, §57-20; HRS §338-17; am L 1997, c 305, §4]

A late or altered certificate would require determination by a judicial or administrative body before being offered as evidence. In other words, the state of Hawaii understands how a late or altered could undermine the value of the original records and provides additional provisions for its consideration.

Basically they are saying that if you have a late or altered certificate, you'd have to go through more procedures before they consider the value of what's in it. And, as noted on the page, this statute was existent in 1961.


First of all Obama's certificate isn't a late certificate, because according to Hawaii statutes a late certificate is one that:

(e) As used in this section, “late” means one year or more after the date of birth. source

Obama's registration date is August 8 1961, 4 days after birth.

And Obama's certificate isn't an "altered" certificate either. How do I know this? Again, according to Hawaii's statutes:

§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates. (a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”. source

Obama's certificate isn't distinctly marked "late" or "altered" nor does its registration date (August 8 1961) would conform to a late registration (as his registration date isn't 1+ year older than birth date).

And since we know that in 1961, §338-17.8 wasn't enacted yet, it wouldn't be possible to alter his original records to Hawaii if they said Kenya, because it wouldn't be possible to register him in the first place if he had been born out of state.

And even if legally they could, an alteration to a birth certification requires documented evidence to support the alteration, and if it doesn't, the State doesn't accept the alteration.

Again, from Hawaii's statutes:

(b) A summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for late filing or the alteration shall be endorsed on the certificates.
(d) When an applicant does not submit the minimum documentation required by the rules for late registration or when the state registrar finds reasons to question the validity or adequacy of the certificate or the documentary evidence, the state registrar shall not register the late certificate and shall advise the applicant of the reason for this action. source

What Hawaii statutes clearly demonstrate is that Obama's certificate isn't a "late" or "altered" certificate.

It means that whatever information was put into Obama's original records, they were done in August 8 1961, and have not been altered.

Since in 1961 it wasn't possible to register out of state births in Hawaii (§338-17.8), his parents couldn't have registered him without documented evidence that he was born in Hawaii and no place else (§338-5).


In light of this, the statements by Director Fukino couldn't be clearer: Obama's original certificate is on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.





[edit on 3-3-2009 by converge]

§338-17.8 was enacted in 1982 (as noted on the page). In 1961, Obama's parents couldn't have registered him in Hawaii if his birth place wasn't Hawaii.

SHE LIED! is that so hard for you to figure out! Jeez it wouldn't be the FIRST time someone in that family was here Illegally!

Sorry it isn't the Genuine Article and until he has the guts to show the genuine article unless he has lied or has something to hide,, their is no other reason for showing us what everey crackpot fraud has shown us and the last person I am going to trust is someone so damn secretive about his backround, is a damn politician, a LAWYER yet, and says, "Just trust me" I'm starting to think that some people don't understand not because they can't, but because they don't want to.






[edit on 3-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

he's probably a hemaphrodite or has some rare blood disease that's on his BC that he doesn't want anyone to know about.

Originally posted by Aermacchi
SHE LIED! is that so hard for you to figure out! Jeez it wouldn't be the FIRST time someone in that family was here Illegally!

Hard to imagine? No. But this isn't about imagination or belief, this is about evidence, or are you advocating suing people for imagined theories?

She lied? That's your answer? OK, but what I want to know is how exactly did she fool everybody?

I just linked and quoted all relevant legislation and it's quite apparent that not only Obama's parents wouldn't be able to register Obama if he wasn't born in Hawaii, but in any situation they would have to present documented evidence of their son's birth.

This is not a matter of when asked where her son was born she would say "Hawaii". It's clear and explicit in Hawaii's statutes that they'd have to provide documented evidence of their son's birth, whether he was born in Hawaii or Kenya.

So, please, tell us how was this done.

Blah, I'm tired of this junk. He needs to just get his little vault copy black out everything but the birth date + where he was born and show it already to prove one side right.

You're tired of not getting what you want.

I have to laugh at the people who will claim they have a Constitutional right to see his birth certificate, or something of that nature, but have no problems in ignoring Barack Obama's Constitutional and state rights to get their curiosity satisfied.

And all those lawsuits? Nothing but exercises in futility.

Nowhere in the Constitution it is specified how a President's eligibility is determined. It's quite clear from the 20th Amendment and 3 USC §15 that the issue of failure to qualify can only result from Congress responding to objections raised during the certification of the electoral vote.

Congress certified the electoral college vote without any objections. From a Constitutional point of view the President's eligibility is no longer a issue.

It doesn't matter what you believe or what you want, all that matters is what the law says.

Obama taught Constitutional law, you think he isn't aware of what he is required or not to do?

Yeah, keep believing that poker players, Russian dentists and other media attention whores are going to succeed in suing the President for this.

Originally posted by converge

Hard to imagine? No. But this isn't about imagination or belief, this is about evidence, or are you advocating suing people for imagined theories?

She lied? That's your answer? OK, but what I want to know is how exactly did she fool everybody?

Hey ask how come he didn't know his aunt was here illegally ask any illegal alien how the hell they do it if you care to know how the criminal mind works. In the mean time, unless he shows he is a Natural Born citizen which is something he refused to answer whenever asked he would not answer that question the entire campaign.

Why not answer questions like that?

Why ignore them?

Why spend a million dollars in lawyer fees to keep his backround sealed up tight but only the kind of documents that mention aid for foriegn students places of birth etc.

"Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child."

See links below for more about the relevant Hawaiian law. A computer generated Certification of Live Birth (COLB) issued in Hawaii is not acceptable to even their own courts as conclusive proof of birth in Hawaii. Under Hawaiian law in 1961, a child could be born anywhere in the world and have the birth registered in Hawaii by the mother after the birth, with true or false information, without any third party independent verification of said "facts" entered on the form by the mother, upon her returning to Hawaii using this law on the books in 1961.
www.capitol.hawaii.gov...
www.americanthinker.com...

Read this simple, straight forward, comparative report about what Obama has proffered as evidence of "natural born citizenship" and what he has NOT provided:
www.peoplespassions.org...

countryfirst.bravehost.com...

Obama taught Constitutional law, you think he isn't aware of what he is required or not to do?

Yes I do think he is aware and this is why he is keeping a lid on it.

Read this simple, straight forward, comparative report about what Obama has proffered as evidence of "natural born citizenship" and what he has NOT provided:
www.peoplespassions.org...

Reference proof of natural born citizenship, a computer generated form (aka COLB) can be easily PhotoShop'd, altered, or forged. Such a simple registration record could be retro-actively filed in Hawaii in 1961 as a post birth event registration after birth of a child, with the birth not even having occurred in Hawaii. No one checked these retro-active registrations in HI at that time which were done by simply signing an affidavit that the facts are true. The mother or grandparents could have done this retro-actively upon the mother's return to give the infant child citizenship. This was a possible cover up at the time by the mother and grandmother. The short form data is then being abstracted from a false, delayed registration of birth, filed with false information by the mother with a simple affidavit with no non-family member, independent witnesses. That was permitted under Hawaii law in 1961. A mother could register the birth of her child upon returning to Hawaii after the actual birth elsewhere. But who knew this child would grow up an run for President and that someone would dig into the records to find the truth, as is now being done. Such a case would explain the stalling, delaying, and obfuscating tactics Obama and his lawyers are engaging in. They don't want the true nature of the birth records registered in Hawaii by his mother and maternal grandmother revealed.

FACT: A qualification per the U.S. Constitution for a person to serve as the President of the U.S. is that they must be a "natural born citizen". And there are several categories of citizenship in the USA: Naturalized, Derivative, Statutory, Native Born, and Natural Born. Also see this chart which shows who is and who is not a citizen, native citizen, and natural born citizen depending on whom your parents are and where you are born: www.theobamafile.com...

Obama may or may not be Native Born depending on the validity of his paternal grandmother's statement in Kenya, and the sealed hospital records in Mombasa, Kenya, but he is certainly not "natural born" since for that term both his parents must be U.S. citizens (of any category) when he was born. And per statements made in his own campaign's website, and in his books, Obama has admitted his father was a British Subject when Obama was born. Obama's father never at any time was a U.S. citizen. Thus Obama is NOT a "Natural Born Citizen (NBC)" of the U.S. under our Constitution's framer's intent. And thus he cannot serve as our President under our Constitution. Defining "natural born citizen", a dissertation on that subject:
federalistblog.us...

Obama will apparently have several hurdles to cross to prove he is a "natural born citizen". First he has to conclusively prove he was born in Hawaii. And again, a computer generated birth registration form, aka the COLB type document proffered by Obama's campaign, is not sufficient evidence for most court cases, let alone to assume the office of Presidency of the U.S. For more about Obama's birth certificate and citizenship issue, below are links to web pages which explain what a "vault copy" of an original birth certificate is and an example of what one looks like from circa the time frame of interest in Hawaii. Obama has NOT provided such a document and refuses to do so.
www.peoplespassions.org...

For the time period in question, the originals were generally typed or hand printed, and will have the signature of the mother on it, the name and signature of the delivering doctor, the name of the hospital, as well as other witnesses to the birth, if any. Obama refuses to provide a certified "vault copy" of his original birth registration in Hawaii. This web page explains and provides exhibits and examples what Obama has provided and what he has not, to date. Also and very importantly note that to date, Obama has NOT personally said in public, "I am a natural born citizen of the U.S. per the U.S. Constitution", and produced a certified "vault copy" of the long form, original birth certificate signed by his mother and the doctor and showing the hospital record where he was born. Why has he not done that? Why has he not released his college records from Occidental in CA, Columbia in NY, and Harvard in MA? Why is he hiding behind his lawyers on this?

FACT: To serve as a U.S. Senator the person must be a U.S. Citizen.

The problem Obama has with that issue is whether his step-father, who moved the family to Indonesia after marrying his mother, legally "adopted" him or "acknowledged" him as his son in Indonesia with the mother's concurrence, thereby renouncing his U.S. citizenship while living in Indonesia. To get into schools in Indonesia at that time the child had to be an Indonesian citizen, and not a U.S. citizen. If his U.S. citizenship was renounced, it would make him no longer a U.S. citizen at all, unless he re-applied for naturalization upon return to the U.S. This is discussed in the Berg vs. Obama case brief to SCOTUS. See: www.obamacrimes.com... for the details and the entire Berg brief and supplemental filings. It is also alleged in that brief that when Obama was about age 20, c1981/1982, that he traveled to Pakistan with a college buddy and student from Pakistan who he met Occidental College. At that time period U.S. citizens could not travel to Pakistan. Thus he must have used some other documentation to get into Pakistan. It is alleged that he used an Indonesian passport that he had retained from his youth and kept it up to date which documented him as an Indonesian citizen, and not a U.S. citizen. Obama has refused to produce any of his passports data from that c1981/1982 time period. Given the poor relations between the U.S. and Pakistan in that time period, he likely traveled to Pakistan on that Indonesian passport, which said he was an Indonesian citizen, which he likely was per accounts and records in Indonesia. His school records in Indonesian say his parents their declared him an Indonesian student. Images of that school document have been published online declaring him an Indonesian citizen of the religion of Islam. And some say when he later enrolled in Occidental College, he declared himself a foreign student and citizen of Indonesia to get generous aide available for foreign citizens at that college. Obama will not release those college records either. He is taking the same stance with his college records as he is taking with his birth records and also with his medical records too. Lots to think about. But his renounced U.S. citizenship by his mother and step-father when in Indonesia, and traveling as an adult on the Indonesian passport, and/or probably making other statements as an adult of being an Indonesian citizen in other records in the past such as college records, he would thus be knowingly acknowledging his renounced U.S. citizenship, and that would disqualify (DQ) him as a "natural born citizen" for sure, and in fact he would not even be a citizen at all at his point. And if he is not legally a U.S. citizen at all, he cannot serve as a U.S. Senator, and all that time in the Senate was done under fraudulent status too. Berg also then further argues in his brief to SCOTUS that Obama may even be an illegal alien in the U.S. under current law if he cannot prove he was ever naturalized upon returning to Hawaii from Indonesia. Again, lots more to think about regarding Obama's citizenship status.
countryfirst.bravehost.com...

[edit on 3-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

reply to post by converge


Seriously you don't have to be so rude about the subject.

You don't even know which side I'm on.

EDIT to add: I think it would be fun if you debated Aermacchi, converge.

(as in an official thingy fight pub forum I noticed once)

[edit on 3-3-2009 by dankanight13]

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Hey ask how come he didn't know his aunt was here illegally ask any illegal alien how the hell they do it if you care to know how the criminal mind works.
Why not answer questions like that?
Why ignore them?

Why ignore them? Well, because they have nothing to do with this. What does it matter if Obama's family was or is here illegally? This is not about Obama's family, this is about Obama.

What I asked you is, since you say his mother lied in 1961, how did she do it? What process, or loop-hole did his parents exploit to have an allegedly foreign born baby registered as being born in Hawaii.

It's your claim after all, the least you could do is give us your theory.

Why spend a million dollars in lawyer fees to keep his backround sealed up tight but only the kind of documents that mention aid for foriegn students places of birth etc.

Kreep has been battling Obama's California lawyer, Fredric Woocher, to release the president's records from Occidental College on the theory that they might provide information about his citizenship.

Woocher has threatened to seek sanctions against Kreep for pursuing the case.

"This suit, like all of the others that have been filed challenging Obama's qualifications for the Presidency, is frivolous," he said in an email to POLITICO, adding that he is, in fact, working pro bono. "There is absolutely no truth to the stories about the untold millions supposedly being paid to us," he said. source

"Certificates for children born out of State.

I don't believe you... §338-17.8 again?! I know you guys don't like to hear this but... Get over §338-17.8! It was enacted in 1982, it doesn't apply to Obama!

Moreover, as I showed in this post, Obama wasn't late registered, nor his certificate was altered.

You can repeat all those misconceptions all you want, but the legal facts don't support your theories.

Originally posted by dankanight13
reply to post by converge

 

Seriously you don't have to be so rude about the subject.

You don't even know which side I'm on.

EDIT to add: I think it would be fun if you debated Aermacchi, converge.

(as in an official thingy fight pub forum I noticed once)

[edit on 3-3-2009 by dankanight13]

Oh get used to it, you can expect more of the same from the rest of the collective in the ObamaBorg

1330 AM WEBY Radio N.W. Florida's Talk Radio Station - 7 PM EST Tuesday 3 Mar 2009 - Kerchner v Obama - Case Update & Q&A

I am pleased to announce that the lead plaintiff in the 'Kerchner v Obama' case, Mr. Kerchner, and I will be on the WEBY radio station, 1330 AM on the dial, Tuesday evening, 3 Mar 2009, from 7 to 8 p.m. EST ... "Northwest Florida's Talk Radio Station". The show host will be Mike Bates.

As shown in their web page, with 25,000 watts of broadcasting power, the station covers the northwest panhandle area of Florida and further west over to Mobile AL of the Gulf Coast and inland. I will be providing an update for the case. Mr. Kerchner and I will then do Q&A with the host and via phone calls from the listening audience. Feel free to spread this announcement to people interested in this case. For more information on the station and dial in numbers and how to listen in via the internet see their webpage at:
www.1330weby.com...

Originally posted by dankanight13
reply to post by converge

 

Seriously you don't have to be so rude about the subject.
You don't even know which side I'm on.

I'm sorry if I seemed rude, I was merely trying to be explicit. You see, I've been debating this for a week now it seems, and people keep re-posting the same misconceptions and lies.

Not accusing you of this, I'm just saying that it gets tiring after a while of debating trolls and you start to lose patience and be more blunt.

EDIT to add: I think it would be fun if you debated Aermacchi, converge.
(as in an official thingy fight pub forum I noticed once)

Thank you for your suggestion dankanight13, but I do not wish to discuss this matter with Aermacchi any longer. It's quite obvious that he is not a serious person.

Look at his last post, he's back at the Indonesian adoption theories and §338-17.8 which have, not only by me but other members, been addressed at length.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by converge]

Oh get used to it, you can expect more of the same from the rest of the collective in the ObamaBorg

I feel so welcomed already

Originally posted by converge
Not this again...

Obama, or anyone else for that matter, isn't required to show his "vault copy" to anyone.

A birth certificate is based on the information that is in the State's vital records. You cannot have certain information on your birth certificate that is different from what is in your vital records.

Hence the word certificate - the State certifies that what's in the birth certificate matches what's in its vital records.

The State of Hawaii has sealed Obama's birth records

A certificate for his birth was never made, and he held an Indonesian passport, plain and simple

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen


Obama, or anyone else for that matter, isn't required to show his "vault copy" to anyone.

A birth certificate is based on the information that is in the State's vital records. You cannot have certain information on your birth certificate that is different from what is in your vital records.

Hence the word certificate - the State certifies that what's in the birth certificate matches what's in its vital records.

Yeah and what is most curious is that he won't verbally answer that question nor would he answer any letters asking and at this point I would wonder what could possibly make a person so proud he would spend a million bucks in lawyer fees to keep his a secret.

I mean seriously, he is either an idiot or he is hiding something but If it is stubborn pride, then we got someone in the white house even more stupid and more stubborn than Bush was.

We made it clear that after McCain was forced to show his vaulted BC, we wouldn't settle for any BS and all we have seen is BS. Pure 100% Bovine excrement piled high and stinking to high heaven.

The rest of this "stuff" are given as consolation excuses for reasons we should already be satisfied but NONE of that stuff is what we asked for and ONLY the Vaulted BC is what would prove the rest is not a sham.

A Million bucks, I mean who would do that?

For what reason would ANYONE trade that kind of cash for principle when being principled would have him doing the right thing and disclosing his vaulted BC. What kind of Whacked weirdo would keep paying like this when it is such a Bargain to allow the real document to vindicate him and his collective ObamaBorg.

Who is so infatuated with this guy, they can't even see the insanity of his efforts to hide this from us while blaming US, for clogging up courts and calling US CT's Nut cases. HA HA HA HA HA HA Yeah we're crazy all right.

Crazy like a fox and I hope they keep burying obama in law suit after law suit after law suit after law suit until he finally spends so many millions he is broke when he gets done with his first and only term as POTUS.

They call us fringe and whackos, yet we are not the one's losing millions to keep a secret covered up when if it was not something that would ruin this guy, he would have obliged us saving all that money.

NOOOOO he is not stupid.

He is just a charlaton

and a liar

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
The State of Hawaii has sealed Obama's birth records

That's a lie.

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.” source

Hawaii's Governor, Linda Lingle, also happens to be a Republican. I guess in your little delusion world, the Republicans are in this conspiracy as well.

Good day.

Originally posted by whitewave
There's not one law for the little guy and a different law for the big guy.

Oh my, what refreshing naiveté!

There are in fact two sets of laws, two sets of books (at least), and two sets of everything else. One applies to those who serve the god of this world. The other applies to those they seek to enslave.

Sorry if that seemed to come off as a put down. I meant it as a complement actually.

edit schmedit

[edit on 4-3-2009 by resistor]

Originally posted by Aermacchi
I wouldn't worry about Bush coming back so can we get back to the present rather than polluting it with more of the past.

Fine, then why are we here on this board if we continue to make excuses for these assholes? Let's just stuff our noses back into the TV as they want us to. Never learn from the past, that's been our motto anyway.

Just watch, I love it when people ask questions, then they actually ANSWER the question FOR ME, like you have obviously done by your next quote:

Hey, I can't help it if the Reps don't want to do anything then want to blame everyone else. Whose fault is that? Fine, what would YOU do?

So let the economy fall, fine with me, TPTB want it, the Republicans want it, their supporters want it, let's make it a joyride to Hell like riding the atomic bomb to the ground, yelling and cheering as you fall

And you got this prophesy from an alternate reality or did Sylvia Brown tell you this?

We get no solutions offered, and we're SUPPOSED to be happy about it? Don't know about you, but I'm on this site BECAUSE I'm sick of the bull#, the corruption,

I'm sorry did you miss all the posts proving that the state didn't do JACK SQUAT? Show me Genius where the State verfies what Hospital he was born in and what state? Share with me if you would be so kind, who the Doctor was that delivered him like they made McCain do for you guys. Then, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, how it is the anti Obama people are the ones making the photoshopped COLB's when It could just as easily been the ObamaBorg flooding the internet with this bunk as it would paint Obama as a victim and THAT is more his style. Regardless,, COLB's are MEANINGLESS and the state he says he got it from even rejects them in most cases!

You need the hospital too? How about social security number? And I don't even recall asking for McCain's birth certificate, but from a quick google search, even FOX said he was born overseas and some of it was a lie. You're not even listening, you're just yelling about some act that was passed after his birth as if a time machine made any difference.

Is that something you can do?

Or are you just being a smart azz

The second one. Really, what else do you need? Even IF it was proven, then we'd talk about something else that has no merit and not look at the shady overlords of the world.

Yeah I know what you mean, clogging up the courts could end today if Obama would simply do what anyone in his position SHOULD do, the same thing McCain did when asked and many more before him. But just what is your problem with it I'd like to know.

I'm just saying prior to the WoT, we, the American people, did not throw such a bitchfit over names. Sure you had a few, but not like today. Now it's mandatory, and the whole thing is a scam anyway, we all know that. Bechtel, Wackenhut, among others doing business with the Bin Laden family and Saudis covering their tracks in the 9-11 Commission report, which even said 7 hijackers lived...

Yeah, nice cover they got going.

Well unlike you, I think ALL of em are a bunch of bums but if you want to talk about lazy,, THE DEMOCRATS DON'T EVEN GIVE a crap about WHETHER ANYONE FROM ANYWHERE RUNS FOR PRESIDENT IN THAT PARTY! NOW THAT"S!!! PATHETIC!

Most I say work for the Rothschilds and others, but what I'm saying is use facts and make people see we tell the truth. Operations Monarch, Northwoods, Mockingbird, the Franklin Coverup, all facts and we can back that up and make people see another side. Use biased opinions from the media outlets who work for whichever party, and you look like another mouthpiece and not a real truth-seeker.

Then why are you talking to me?

Look above, I spelt it out.

Originally posted by converge

Why ignore them? Well, because they have nothing to do with this. What does it matter if Obama's family was or is here illegally? This is not about Obama's family, this is about Obama.

What I asked you is, since you say his mother lied in 1961, how did she do it? What process, or loop-hole did his parents exploit to have an allegedly foreign born baby registered as being born in Hawaii.

It's your claim after all, the least you could do is give us your theory.

Hawaii ALLOWED foreign births to be recorded until 1970, as long as it was recorded one year from the birth. Those who did this were granted a certification of live birth and not a proper Birth Certificate. Obimbo's own sister is registered this way in Hawaii, she was born in Indonesia.

Kreep has been battling Obama's California lawyer, Fredric Woocher, to release the president's records from Occidental College on the theory that they might provide information about his citizenship.

Woocher has threatened to seek sanctions against Kreep for pursuing the case.

"This suit, like all of the others that have been filed challenging Obama's qualifications for the Presidency, is frivolous," he said in an email to POLITICO, adding that he is, in fact, working pro bono. "There is absolutely no truth to the stories about the untold millions supposedly being paid to us," he said. source

[I don't believe you... §338-17.8 again?! I know you guys don't like to hear this but... Get over §338-17.8! It was enacted in 1982, it doesn't apply to Obama!

That's what they say about his sister LOL

Moreover, as I showed in this post, Obama wasn't late registered, nor his certificate was altered.

Sorry I don't believe fatchick.borg

You can repeat all those misconceptions all you want, but the legal facts don't support your theories.

Hey smart guy, there are laws that say robbing a damn Bank is illegal too BUT YA KNOW WHAT!!!


IT STILL HAPPENS!

[edit on 4-3-2009 by Aermacchi]