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Soldier doubts ( Obama's) eligibility, defies president's orders

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posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
'saint'.....do you REALLY want to open THIS Pandora's box????

After eight years of 'Bushisms'??


Not sure why you put my job title in singular quotes, lest you have doubts but is a discussion for another thread as well I'm sure. As I've said, you find it in both parties. No one is spared of folly nor is in 'the party of intellects'. If a soldier did this to Bush two years ago, would he not get Democratic applause? When looking at hypocrisy and double-standards, simply reverse the scenario and ask the same question.


Originally posted by weedwhacker
Besides....laughing at politcal gaffes are fun, and fairplay....but have NO PLACE in this particular discussion!!!!


I apologize if it appears like I'm trying to bring Mr. Biden nor anyone else below the level of human (certainly not the intent) and will focus moreso on the topic at hand. Again, if someone refused to follow Bush because they found him in violation of the constitution, would there be Democrat opposition?

[edit on 27-2-2009 by saint4God]




posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


saint.....your most offensive bit was the last sentence.....

You wrote 'democrat opposition'....instead of the proper 'democratic'....

Thanks for showing your true colors!!!!



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by weedwhacker
'saint'.....do you REALLY want to open THIS Pandora's box????

After eight years of 'Bushisms'??


Not sure why you put my job title in singular quotes, lest you have doubts but is a discussion for another thread as well I'm sure. As I've said, you find it in both parties. No one is spared of folly nor is in 'the party of intellects'. If a soldier did this to Bush two years ago, would he not get Democratic applause? When looking at hypocrisy and double-standards, simply reverse the scenario and ask the same question.


Originally posted by weedwhacker
Besides....laughing at politcal gaffes are fun, and fairplay....but have NO PLACE in this particular discussion!!!!


I apologize if it appears like I'm trying to bring Mr. Biden nor anyone else below the level of human (certainly not the intent) and will focus moreso on the topic at hand. Again, if someone refused to follow Bush because they found him in violation of the constitution, would there be Democrat opposition?

[edit on 27-2-2009 by saint4God]


Apologies to all, but this ENTIRE post had to be copied in 'quotes' to show the bias.

Comparing Vice President Joseph Biden as 'below' Human, etc, etc.....



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
You wrote 'democrat opposition'....instead of the proper 'democratic'....


There was no mistake here. I also am unsure what you mean by showing true colors and why you posted our conversation without additional address...but I digress, somehow we're off topic yet again. Please answer my question(s)?

[edit on 27-2-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


Actually...we are SO FAR off topic, I'd prefer to not carry on.

THE ISSUE is about a soldier. AND his/her feelings about the current CIC.

IF, 'saint4God', IF you wish to make this a religious issue....then, perhaps you should contact this soldier. Perhaps you can be of assistance in his/her case.

Back to topic....a soldier has postulated that he/she should not follow orders any more, based on the flimsy stance that there is a 'question' about the current CIC's status as a US Citizen.

Well....ONCE a person is 'sworn in'.....well, that person IS CIC, until removed from office!!! By Impeachment, or any other process....

So, this soldier is in the quicksand, it would seem. Hope he/she gets a good attorney!!!



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
IF, 'saint4God',


There we go with the singular quotes again without explanation.


Originally posted by weedwhacker
IF you wish to make this a religious issue....


Where did I say/imply this?


Originally posted by weedwhacker
then, perhaps you should contact this soldier. Perhaps you can be of assistance in his/her case.


I doubt it, I'm certain the soldier has been getting a myriad of advice from others up to and including what I'd have to say about it.


Originally posted by weedwhacker
Back to topic....


Psst...still didn't answer my question on my previous post which IS on topic:

"If a soldier did this to Bush two years ago, would he not get Democratic applause?"

"Again, if someone refused to follow Bush because they found him in violation of the constitution, would there be Democrat opposition?"

[edit on 27-2-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


Psssst....saint4God...


ermmmmm....comeon!!!! Look at your screenname, and your icon!!!

What would a normal person infer??

Back to your question....IF a soldier had questioned the authority of GWB, I seriously doubt it would have made it to the 'Main'Stream'.

Ya see, yet? IT IS A RIGHT WING attempt to sully the Democrats, and their views.

What if I referred to all that had an (R) after their Name as a 'republic'??

As in....these people believe in their OWN 'republic'....to further their greed, and their own style of life, that they have become accustomed to????

Pretty much explains what has been happening, for the last eight years.....



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by 5thElement
This is beyond unbelievable...

Since when soldiers have rights to question orders ???


Since the Nuremberg trials. It's in a soldiers best interest to question, and refuse illegal orders.



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 


Thank you and every poster who mentioned that it is correct for a soldier to ask about the legitimacy of an order....

Nobody here remembers a Lt William Calley and a certain My Lai Massacre or more correctly named a Zippo (lighter) raid in Viet Nam. When going on patrol in War one does not get written orders for a patrol. They are always verbal or at least when I served on a firebase that was the way it was. Nobody questioned and Zippo raids were common placed. As far as the Americal Division taking heat for being baby killers - when ordering a zippo raid where as all villagers are shot and huches burnt what does a solider do with a live screaming and crying baby or better put, many live screaming and crying babies. Leave them alive next to thier Dead NVA parents or smoked them as being a far more humainly option? You see orders don't cover everything.

Lt William Calley was issued a verbal order he should have stated it was illegal as not doing so it sure screwed up his life. Totally. The order giver got away and promoted and maybe even issued a medal. And if it was not orders as it has been suggested and Lt Calley was mad as they said he was in the press then answer this question, when the press and their cameras stepped off the helicopter walking passed and talking to Lt Calley who was about to get on board the same chooper to fly back to the firebase, why if it was an illegal action did Lt. Calley and his men did not kill the reporters like the villiagers of My Lai....... to cover up his madness or illegal actions! Saddest day of my military 6 years and I became paranoid after that receiving verbal orders. Sort of makes it hard to survive in the bush without clear orders on paper regarding Rules of Engagement vs what the higher up chain of command wanted done mission wise.

Got it? Legitment orders that should have been questioned and most definately written weren't. So all of you now want to jail or court marshal this young soldierman for questioning an order where would you had stand on Lt Calley case. Or where did you. He was an American hero, a soldier doing what he was ordered to do....

Interesting question IMHO.

Would you support him for following those orders or had he refused, his right to not to follow a direct order from his chain of command?

Nevermind the worse day of my carrer when everyone turned their back on the Lt Calley who followed orders. Jail....Then his life was ruined....

Also they can shoot you in war for not obeying an order.... (legal or othewise)!

Think about it in war most orders are verbal not written...

Where can a solder not cross a line and who would support him his rights???

I can tell you how little we were supported by the American people after Viet Nam war. I no longer live in America as a result of the people negitivity and nasty questions in job interviews or at the workplace... In the UK it was like the Viet Nam never mattered and I created a business in the computer trade for the computer trade and I did alright until my body started failing.

How many of us had protected by Congress union jobs that were not legally given back to the returned soldiers who after an honourable discharge (I had 2) and the medals we were honoured with. I was in California after my discharged but then that story is for another thread.

I hope you understand my point. I am an old soldier with a rotten body consuming Morphine issued by the docs so I am writing challenged. Sorry.
ATB
IceHappy



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by IceHappy
 


I don't know, IceHappy.....I really do not know.

Allow me to ask you this, need not answer....notwithstanding your rank or brigade....would you NOT help a fellow soldier, in need?

Regardless of the CO, or any 'orders' that may have been channeled down....either from the CO, or, through him/her, the CIC....regardless, isn't it the priority to follow orders????



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by IceHappy
 

I don't know, IceHappy.....I really do not know.

Allow me to ask you this, need not answer....notwithstanding your rank or brigade....would you NOT help a fellow soldier, in need?

Regardless of the CO, or any 'orders' that may have been channeled down....either from the CO, or, through him/her, the CIC....regardless, isn't it the priority to follow orders????


Of course one always trys to help a fellow soldier but I can give you one example when not. High ranging NCO with a very high SGOT readings slipped and started drinking.... again! At the time I was called and instead of taking him to a bar I took him to a military hospital. Now it depends on your way of thinking if I help him or myself. I loved the man and they said he would die the next binge. That was 2 binges before this one.

Of course there is a priority to follow orders when You are young and without the intelligence of being older and wiser which is how My Lai happened and let us not forget Kent State!

What upsets me and I guess it is true with any war but the Viet Nam Vets thought that the American GI would never fall for another gun boat war. It pains me to know that there now is an Iraqi Vets against the War. Being a Viet Nam Vet against the War member marching on Vets Day without a parade permit with cops all around us. All we were asking is the benefits we were promised... I thought we set the example for the youth not to follow... I mean we did not have an example to learn from.

It also makes one sadder that I feel that Bush Government created 911 which is why there is now this new group of Vets getting FBI records protesting like we did. I cannot fly without receiving the almighty "SSSS" stamped on my ticket and receive from my fellow Americans the treatment that I receive when flying or should I say the search and being moved out of the line to one side. I served my country proud lost my fiance, my union job and forced to go to college to learn business to start my own to escape the California Image of a "Baby Killer". Even though I wasn't.

I cannot imagine what our younger group of heroes will receive for their reward for following orders. Imagine coming home to California and being spat on whilst in Uniform..... Right now Americans are backing the troops I remember being at Ft Bragg and receiving the good wishes from the civilian population when in uniform out side the base. Then we quit the war in 1975 and moving home to Calif all those good will people weren't there anymore.

I don't know once we found that there were no WMD if I was serving if I could have continued fighting in Iraq and follow those orders. Honestly! This doesn't really matter as I am not and now I live in the UK and will never be tested like that again.

I was going to be a lifer in the army as I had a very good record but I got out after 6 years not being able to trust my country as I had seen enough. The benefit of being young is not being a thinker but a blind doer without questioning and the cost of getting older is the wisdom of life to be able to question oneself for what one has done for their commander in chief when being young. I think that soldier is a very smart man at an early age who may one day have to leave his country because he doesn't like what he sees in his government. I just hope that the Vets of today are not forgotten when it is time for them to be able to return to their old jobs as promised by Congress. I don't know if Americas current President is legal I have one child born in Calif and the other in England. They both know only one could be entitled to become President. Having said that I am grateful that the Bush Administration has been replaced.

[edit on 2/27/2009 by IceHappy]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by SpacePunk

Originally posted by 5thElement
This is beyond unbelievable...

Since when soldiers have rights to question orders ???


Since the Nuremberg trials. It's in a soldiers best interest to question, and refuse illegal orders.


Nuremberg trials were about soldiers and officers breaking Geneva conventions and committing genocide and other atrocities beyond belief, not about Hitler being illegitimate or unfit to be president of Germany.

Can we please get over this hump and not mention Hitler or Nuremberg in this discussion again (?), pretty please, it has no relevance whatsoever



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by 5thElement
 


When you are being commanded by an imposter! Someone who is here to destroy our Nation! Ask yourself why Obama is spending millions on attorneys to keep his birth certificate and all of his other records sealed! Our military deserves an answer to this question of Obama's citizenship!!



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by 5thElement
 


Yes, and those soldiers followed illegal orders which broke the Geneva rules. Unless you want to argue that it's ok for our soldiers to follow illegal orders. Why do you like illegal orders so much?



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by 5thElement
 

I served this country willingly for almost 30 years and there were times when I didn't agree with all the orders that came down the pike, but when I raised my hand each time I reinlisted I promised to follow the "lawful" orders of my superiors. No member of the military has the option to defy any "lawful" order. This soldier "if this story is even true" will end up in the brig and with a general court martial. And he deserves what he gets.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 09:07 PM
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My prayers and thanks go out to the brave men in the military with conscience and bravery to stand against it, a military which has been hijacked by the foreign bankers to be used against the American people.

Obama is a puppet dictator, the best that money can buy. He's not our president. He's theirs -- ("theirs" meaning the British Zionists who tapped him, paid for him, hyped him with their controlled media, and who give him his marching orders and have their agents handling him 24/7).

Is the military for sale? Can a group of British Zionists buy it, turn it around to use it against the people it was created to protect?

Sure can, and it's already happened. A military coup, by the offshore bankers, using the American military to protect their backside.

Reading the postings here is scary, shows me how far gone we are, how far we have to go to wake people up to our imminent demise.

What is this, a place for people to congregate who love the NWO and embrace it? What ever happened to loving the Republic, the Constitution?

You people are a bunch of eugenicist Zionists, and if you think the new system is going to be your friend, that you will be spared, you'll find out you are wrong on that score. You are going to lose everything, just like all the rest of us, except that you are going to lose your soul along with your possessions, your pension and your life and freedom in a labor camp or from a government bird flu spray down or a HAARP manufactured earthquake or volcanic eruption at Yellowstone.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by Salt of the Earth
 


I could add a comment or two here, but I think S.o.t.E's post speaks for itself....

fare thee well, friend....fare thee well.......



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Salt of the Earth
 


I could add a comment or two here, but I think S.o.t.E's post speaks for itself....

fare thee well, friend....fare thee well.......


What is this, the kiss of death? Who's going to get me, bin Laden or Homeland Security?



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by nj2day
 


No....... if it is found to be true that he is not legally able to be president, then every bill signed by him, and every appointment, is null and void.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by zappafan1
 


zappafan.....possibly, but consider this: Nixon, facing Impeachment and removal from Office, resigned instead. DID ALL OF his signed Bills and apointments suddenly become invalid?

Gubment just don't work that way, ya betcha!!

I'm not a Constitutional law scholar, but I would presume that the follow-on CIC would have the RIGHT to vacate everything done by the previous CIC...or, just let them stand.



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