Child abuse 'alters stress gene'

Originally posted by Torsion girl
This thread should raise several questions: What do we REALLY know about DNA and genetics? Do we really believe, as some have posted, that it is a set and unmovable sequence and that external stimuli cannot alter our genetic pattern? Regarding what genetic science refers to as "mutations" there are two: Somatic mutations and germ-cell mutations. Mutations that occur in somatic cells are not heritable, while germ-cell mutations are the ones we pass on to our kids. (Robinson PhD 2005). I didn't catch which cell mutations were asserted here.

Also interesting is the notion that our genetic composition is a true reflection of WHO we are, rather than just WHAT we are...and if genetics reflects that, it must be changing/altering constantly, yet we see a frozen moment in time when we examine DNA. If child abuse alters our genetic composition, then so too must love and understanding.

The article title is wrong, no genes are altered.

Apparently, at least what your mother was doing does have some impact. I dont know if it works the same with fathers.

It does. There have been cases of FAS-like problems being passed by fathers. One of the male thalidimde children was told that his DNA was fine, and that there was no problems with him having children....and his child was born with his thalidmide caused problems.

Originally posted by Leto
The article title is wrong, no genes are altered.

Gene expression is altered.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Some also suffer through poverty, furthering complicating their issues with poor nutrition. Indeed. Some people suffer greatly through no fault of their own.

But some do realize after years of torment that while they weren't responsible for their suffering, they can be responsible for their happiness. That it may take a while, a very long while, but the misery can be overcome. And while these people may never be a success in the eyes of but one or two, that is all they ever really wanted to begin with.

I agree with you that we are all different, and that how we can and can not cope with things that happen to us is also different. But circumstances are to some extent universal, and so too can be a potential solution.

For some the personal story isn't a way of saying, 'I did it so you can too,' but rather saying 'I'm managing and here's how. Maybe it will help you too,'. At least that's where I'm coming from. It isn't meant to be cold, but rather loving. And sometimes love means telling people they can do it even when they are sure they can't.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

But some do realize after years of torment that while they weren't responsible for their suffering, they can be responsible for their happiness. That it may take a while, a very long while, but the misery can be overcome.

I agree in essence with what you are saying. I do hope that research like this does lead to a treatment that will help some of those who have not been able to use mindfulness or other techniques to find relief.

There is a great temptation to think that if we overcome something others should be able to as well, if they just did what we did, but it just may not be true. Some people may have a greater degree of physiological change, they may not have been as lucky as some of us in terms of having certain other experiences that may have provided some mitigation of the impact, who knows.

I know you are not saying that people should just "suck it up and deal with it" your post was very compassionate. However that is what many people do say to adult victims of childhood abuse. That if they cant succeed, they shouldnt blame it on their childhood, it is because they are a) lazy b)unmotivated c) whiners...... you know the deal. I am sure you have heard those people too. So the child who was abused and mistreated, and is now an adult dealing with the consequences of that, gets more abuse and mistreatment. For something that was never their fault.

I managed fairly ok after my own abusive childhood. But I am not the person I could have been, and I know that. And while, yes, it has made me more compassionate towards others who shared those experiences and people in general, it doesnt make everyone more compassionate. It makes some so angry they want others to suffer like they did, because of the injustice. Which of course just perpetuates the injustice.

I dont know. I do hope some treatments arise from this. Not that everyone who has been abused will need or want it. But I would like to see those who havent found a way to work around the damage get at least a chance to feel better. Without having to have the memory itself altered to do so.

www.webmd.com...

Feb. 16, 2009 -- A commonly used blood pressure medication may also help erase or subdue fearful memories, researchers report in the online edition of Nature Neuroscience.

Scientists at the University of Amsterdam have discovered that the drug propranolol, a beta-blocker, prevents the return of unpleasant memories. The finding could lead to a new realm of treatments for patients with posttraumatic stress and other emotional disorders.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Yeah, I've gotten the old 'you just need your ass kicked' treatment. So I hoped my post wouldn't come across as narrow in how I see the solution. I'm still trying to get it all myself. And it's taken a lot of approaches just to get where I am, which comes down to how I feel about myself most of the time, which isn't very far too much of the time.

I agree with you in that I hope those who have gone through these traumas can find something that brings them relief.



[edit on 24-2-2009 by TravelerintheDark]

reply to post by Aeons



diet and exercise can alter hundres of genes... how about researching before you argue that it's not true in your ignorance....

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
And it's taken a lot of approaches just to get where I am, which comes down to how I feel about myself most of the time, which isn't very far too much of the time.

I agree with you in that I hope those who have gone through these traumas can find something that brings them relief.

Yeah, thats the thing that bugs me. How you feel about yourself. I straightened out pretty fast, got a decent job, didnt abuse substances, have no adult record, eventually got my degree, and great grades. On the outside I looked fine. No one would know. But no matter what I did I still felt like a loser. And, ashamed of my past. Like it was my fault or something.

A lifetime of abuse or rejection from parents or foster parents just leaves you feeling that there MUST be something horribly wrong with you. If there wasnt, why would this be happening to you? And besides, you hear that from everyone "burdened" by your care. Parents, social workers, foster parents. All of them telling you how much it sucks to have to deal with you and how grateful you should feel that they even tolerate you at all. And no matter how well mindfulness works, even if you can do it 364 days of the year, there is always that point of exhaustion. When you just cant watch your mind that day, and that nasty little ghost of "not good enough" or "horribly flawed" is just waiting in the shadows to come out and tell you how worthless you are.

I was watching the Forensic Files one day, and they had this story about this little girl who got lured into an apartment to see some animal by this pedophile. And of course he killed her. And the detective was recounting the killer saying that the one thing that got him was that as he was stabbing her to death, she kept saying over and over "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." And that just broke my heart.

Because that is the tragedy of abuse. YOU are being victimized. YOU have done nothing wrong. And for the rest of your life you carry the feeling that you must have done something to deserve it.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Well except that mothers often dont remove children from those situations because they actually need/want the abusive person more than they love their children. And, also often, it is the mother who is the abuser.

I think you also have to consider that in the case of sexual abuse, where one or neither parent is the abuser, they are often unaware of what is happening and therefore unable to remove their child from the situation.

And in the case of domestic violence the wife/husband/partner is often subject to the same abuse and therefore feels unable to remove the children.

reply to post by AngelInterceptor


I know sometimes it is the case that a parent doesnt know what the other is doing. But having grown up "in the system" and seeing hundreds of other kids who were abused, and talking to them, sharing tales, etc., it is far more often that one parent "doesnt want to know." Or pretends not to know.

I knew a girl whose mother put her on birth control at 12 so her step father could rape her and not get her pregnant. That mother claimed "not to know" too, when it all came out when the girl was 16 or so. But she knew enough to get her on birth control before the girl even thought about dating.

There is true ignorance. And I am sure it does occur. But my own experience is that it is very, very rare when it is inside the house. Far more common is turning a blind eye so that the non-abusive parent doesnt have to make the tough choices and deal with the repercussions of the abuse. Stranger or casual contact abuse I agree. Often the parents dont know.



[edit on 24-2-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]