Killing God....or something.

The following post was mine. I excerpted it from its original thread "A Gnostic Plot to Kill God in 2012?" and it was in response to a comment by Matrix Prophet. The only reason I'm re-issuing this post as a thread is because I'm feeding my ego... AND I thought the post was worth being further discussed before it got buried under threads of people foaming at the mouth about paper and ones and zeros and things of that silly nature. Enjoy:


Good and bad.... are like counterbalances. Why is Lucifer considered "the light bringer"? Is it that Lucifer directly brings seemingly great things to you like comfort and love and a feeling of self-importance? Or is it that Lucifer rips all those things away from you.... so you are left essentially bare, with only this "thing" that you are observing the horror and the beauty of it all.... and you have no good to seek comfort in, and evil has become mundane..... what is left to know?

The only thing left to know is.... who is God? Is God good? Is God evil? Is God up there or down there or in some other spatial reality? What does God want us to know about Him?

What is this? Who are you? The answer does not alleviate pain and suffering from experience. The answer does not turn you into some super-being with superpowers. The answer simply puts all into perspective. Gnosis is not complicated, and it is not a religion. All you self proclaimed "Gnostics" are floating in your own private sea over there, but be rest assured....the sea and the ocean are one. You see borders, and you mistake it for something different.

The truth is that you cannot ever transcend matter. There is no existence which is denser or higher or lower. There is no "good" or "bad". There is no "us" VS "them". There is only ONE! All else is an illusion of the one. "We" are God. Material existence is God. Spectral, etherial, spiritual existence.... all of these vague and meaningless terms are God. Anything outside of any of these terms is God.

You cannot kill God. You cannot pinpoint which God is true, or which God is false, you cannot know right and wrong. You cannot judge. In reality, all we are MEANT to do with this existence, no matter what color of the spectrum it is or was or will be, is be it. Don't question it too much. Just accept what is in your heart... even if what is in your heart is considered "evil" or "crazy" or "wrong" to everyone except you.... the heart finds a way because it is the way. Each facet is interconnected in this illusion called existence, and each facet is equally as important. The illusion is not good nor evil. It is just something to experience.... and all facets are there to be experienced in all ways.

If somebody kills your entire family... give thanks. If someone gives you a meal in a time of food shortage, give thanks. If someone rapes and pillages a nation in the name of freedom and justice, give thanks. If a baby is born, give thanks. If a baby dies, give thanks. If anything.... give thanks. Appreciate it all, my friends. Let it all be. Let your personality play out exactly how it will.... let your physical and mental struggles become.... let it unfold.

It happens without force, without effort. Things present themselves when the order dictates... and your job as an "I am" is to receive these things, whatever they may be...in whatever way you receive them, you are receiving them regardless. It is all a gift, even the worst possible things you could imagine. Give thanks for it.

This is the gnosis. To understand. Not to play along with beliefs in understanding or put things on pedestals higher or lower than one's self. I don't preach in my normal life. I doubt anybody would recognize this writing as being related to the guy they would see typing it. I doubt even if I spoke, that my actions and my words would mesh in the eyes of the people.... but what is far more important is that the gnosis isn't an ac tion, a belief, or a way of life. It is ALL actions, beliefs, and ways of life... and even thee man who goes against all words he preaches should, once in a while, be able to speak of it because it is within his/her/its own being that the gnosis lies.

The liar speaks the truth, the truth speaks lies, the sin is holy, the holy is sinful, the lover hates, the hater loves, the is isn't, and the isn't is....

I can't think of any number of words spoken over any stretch of time or space that could galvanize truth into the eyes of the blind....

It is something that exists regardless of your thoughts. Those who seek to destroy it.... perhaps they don't understand fully... but I doubt this world would exist without the persistence of ignorance. I give thanks to that.

Cheers!

"Before enlightenment, go to bar and get very drunk. After enlightenment, go to bar and get very drunk."

If you speak of understanding as though you understand, then you don't understand. As you can see, I speak very vaguely about "God" and "understanding" and I don't give specifics into what this understanding is, what God is, why killing God is ridiculous, yada yada.... because I understand that words cannot reflect this understanding. I can only say that.... at some point on your journey, you will understand.... and when you know all there is to know, you will realize why it has been that you never understood before.... and the whole cycle will repeat.

There is no eternal "God". This vagueness we refer to as "God" is constantly changing.

Perhaps what this sect of Gnosticism as an ideological branch is referring to
is civilization. I believe one of my Satanist friends once said that Satanism is actually about killing the material "God" of humans.... which is civilization and culture and society and all pre-conceptions about the permanence of reality.

Satanism just takes this lesson teaching to a very uncomfortable extreme.

Buddhism, in contrast.... is as effective of a tool in showing impermanence, oneness, natural order, the nature of consciousness/reality as Satanism.... but I guess could just be called a much kinder and more peaceful approach.

Gnostic Satanism uses masochism and sadism.... the material/physical force... to try and transcend and "destroy" materialism, or "God" in the eyes of many.... and my personal opinion is that Satanic Gnosticism as an ideological tool of eventual transcendence is a very very very inefficient method which requires lifetimes and lifetimes of being caught in the darker shades of existence in order to truly transcend.....

That, I do not agree with. We, as a world, are not in harmony with that method of transcendence. You can kill your Gods much more effectively through compassion, reason, and open-mindedness. No need to cause an imbalance and destroy a world by adding an excess of unneeded pain and suffering. No need to waste more on teaching a lesson than the lesson is worth.

If the concept of god originated in the mind of man then then what you say is could be true. We could have had this knowledge shared with us. There may be a perfect definition for the word god... which is what it was originaly supposed to mean. There may be a perspective that one could sit at and see the ultimate identity of good and evil. The universe is just so vast. You cannot only use the old ignorant ideas of man as examples... you must look to what we will come to understand, the truth of our reality. Just as positive and negitive have a mathmatical logical side to them... so may god and the soul outside of ignorance.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Well there are some limitations to the physical abilities of man in relation to "matter".... but I believe that man is fully equipped with the mental faculties to be able to fully realize, even though perhaps physically "handicapped" from manifesting this understanding by our evolutionary status.

This "God" concept was obviously introduced to mankind through some "outer" medium.... be it E.T. or E.D.

Some untouched tribes deep within the rainforests, when first discovered by civilized cultures... did not understand the concept of "I" or "this" or "that".

They saw everything as one unending living being. What's interesting is that these tribes did not have any formal or organized "religion", yet they were just naturally aware of what, "coincidentally", every major religion at its heart has tried to convey throughout the ages.

Interestingly enough, the one thing which always corrupts or destroys altogether this rightfully and naturally inherent knowledge which is occasionally re-issued to us through Buddhas and Christs and the likes, is SOCIETY. Civilized society, more specifically. Civilization requires us to perceive IT as God or Godly amongst all else in order for us to sacrifice our whole lives in the pursuit of its goal... but none of us ever really know what this goal is..... it's always called "progress". These days you might be asking "Wow, is THIS what progress means nowadays?" but you look and you just see waste and death and ruin piling up further and further. This, despite all divine blessings, sacred rituals, sacrifice offerings, yada yada....

You may be asking "Well you said that all religions are saying the same thing about God, but if religion can't show us truth or error of our ways, then what does it matter which God or Satan I worship or kill?"

Why can't religion show us clearly enough the nature of reality to really make a good enough impact? Well, religion is deeply based upon the region of origin...specifically its style of culture and society.

Culture and society, while seemingly innocuous to the layman, are actually not your friend. They are designed to keep humans and nature, along with humans as a species, separated from each other. They are design to blind a person with ego.... specifically pride, which spawns prejudice... and let that ego take over and control the individual, instead of natural instinct and gnostic knowledge which would be common sense if the mind was allowed to grow naturally. The ego.... while partially flavored with individual spirit... is mostly comprised of non-personal societal influences, and therefore most people within a certain culture or society are operating generally in a very hive-mind type fashion.

Religion is only useful to one who can see past its veil of culture. The masses aren't afforded that awareness most of the time, so religion really becomes more of a tool of control rather than an efficient tool of transcendence. More a titanic beastly arm constricting the pathway to truth.
Religion is like the end boss in a videogame. Most never take the time to try and beat the end boss. Most never even get close to the end boss. If they did, they would see this giant cultural amalgam of stereotypes lurching forth at them like some sort of very psychedelic and scary land squid, and at that point.... their very pride in everything which has come to shape their ego becomes their enemy.

Now.... the question which I'm seeking to answer now is... this hive-mind of society and civilization.... is THIS the God being talked about in references of Gnostic Satanism? Is this the giant scary psychedelic bad acid trip land squid boss at the end of the last level of the videogame of civilization?

Is this the insane God which is wrathful vengeful and has created a bizarro reality within a reality in which mass human suffering and environmental destruction which in the end benefits no one and kills everyone is seen as good? Sounds a lot like society to me. Sounds a lot like quite a few other mystical/religious images of God/Lucifer and similar concepts, metaphorically speaking i guess.
Like the concept of Satan being a great deceiver... in relation to society and some Gnostic beliefs that the Biblical God is in fact evil.....really intrigues me.

I see society as the Great Deceiver. Society has created itself to be a worshiped God by spawning religions out of purposely misinterpreted and destroyed lives and teachings of great masters, and also by spawning the global economy and the monetary system, which is basically worshiped and ritualized like a much more spiritually sterile religion.

If there is a God to kill, it would be the false God of civilization... progress upon the broken backs of others.... and probably countless other broken global environments throughout the galaxy.

The easiest way to kill a false God is to expose it to the light of scrutiny of truth and reason. Society cannot stand without complete blind faith in its promise... and what I see lately may well have been engineered by people in the know, in order to BRING LIGHT to those covered in the dark. The people MUST lose faith in society, because society alone is not God, and will not save you if you've been a good boy your whole life. The only God is nature, and nature is all ways and unlimited, so all entities within nature must also be unlimited and always as well... because they comprise it.

So.... the New Gods would be everyone and everything equally. All concepts unharmonious to that will not stand. This is the new paradigm we are moving into. Revelations is at hand, unfortunately.... but fortunately, the series of unfortunate events comprising this Revelations period will do exactly what its name implies, and will "reveal" to each of us individually the true "god"... killing the concept, and therefore the physical manifestation... of the evil and false "Insane God" of some Gnostic Sects' philosophies.

Whilst what you say is true the problem is they are tools put in place because most of humankind don't deal very well without them.

Even Science is just the latest attempt to wien humans off the tit of religious faith onto something similar but different.

The question is how to make people come to their own fundamental understanding of that in a way that will allow them to move on to form a better society.

I have not seen these tribes you speak of.. in your mind you hold such a statement as great proof to the better "natural" developement of man. Would you please give me a link to that information.

I agree with what you say about the pitfalls of society. It is more or less seen as a father by some who follow win its footsteps. A society is only as great as its weakest link. People will collect and take example of one another... they will teach the acts they find good and shun those they find evil. The devlopment of a society is natural. Such suffering may only be a natural biproduct of evolution and growth.

There are alot of things wrong with ALL modern religons.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


Hi dunwichwitch,

Insightful posts about society... kept reminding me that Cain built a city. The first person mentioned in the bible who's ego got out of control went out got married, had a baby and then built a city.

That he built a city being mentioned had made an impression upon me... that the cities/society is full of and made by egos whom are not close to source.

Here's the verses in case you're interested:

Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son. Genesis 4:16-17

I included verse 16 because it shows that the city/society was built as a result of no longer being in the presence of source.

I had just found that really interesting at one point and your posts reminded me of it.


[edit on 24-2-2009 by L.I.B.]

The only truth I hold self evident is that the current development of man will inevitably lead to ruin, therefore in my mind the systems which bought this situation about have proven to be ineffective.

I wish I had the real answer for you, I'm sorry that I don't.