Originally posted by ranhome
Thats like asking what was the make, model and color of car that just ran you over? Not the main point

[edit on 23-2-2009 by ranhome]

[edit on 23-2-2009 by ranhome]

One have to be cautions with information, it is called documentary research.

The optics involved, the exact location of the camera and more, all these details add up to have a broader perspective of the event and can sometime lead to the explanation.



++
Europa

Originally posted by RFBurns
Second, anything falling off the shuttle is not going to get dragged off when your in a vacume. The tether video when it breaks off is the perfect example of something comming loose from the shuttle..such as your ice particle. That tether does NOT move away from the shuttle at break neck speeds. It gradually moves away as its velocity decreases since the shuttle is no longer holding on to it.

If I remember it correctly, the tether moved away from the shuttle and away from the Earth (it changed to a higher orbit) because it had too much speed for it to keep on that orbit, you have to remember that it was a strange object to have in orbit, an almost 20km long wire with a satellite on the top.

But I may be wrong.

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Now, about the video.

I do not have any idea of what that could be.

Ice crystals? Possible.

Junk? Possible.

Space critters? Less likely, but possible (I think).

Alien spacecraft? Possible, but unlikely.

A satellite? I doubt it, I don't see how that trajectory could be achieved by a satellite, that is supposed to keep an almost constant orbit.

As for the movement, I do not see anything intelligent about it, if we play the video faster it looks like a perfect parabolic trajectory, like the football example, so it looks like the object was affected by some external force.

The lights do not look to be Earth lights to me, if they were they would move fast, the shuttle orbits are very short, so the Earth passes under it at a very high speed, like we can see on the video posted by Phage.

So, too many questions (I do not even know in which direction is the camera pointing), too little real data that we can use.

After all, this is just a 256 shades of grey video.

despite the size of the universe, i still can't tell whether or not the shuttle is actually a shuttle moving at 18000mph in a rather microcosmic radius =\.

I find it absolutely hilarious when people that obviously have NO formal physics training attempt to describe one of the most mathematically complex mechanics in the entire realm of movement: orbital mechanics.

If you guys even had a TINY, ITSY, BITSY idea of the amount of schooling it takes to even get to take a class on orbital movement you may then have a clue as to how ridiculous you all sound trying to make logical statements regarding "facts" about space faring objects.

There's a reason people believe in God, it's easier than learning math.

I am so glad they closed all the libraries

easy:



from the graininess of the video, along with the great distance at which separates the camera from objects, i have two conclusions:

either it is an unmanned spacecraft (most extraterrestrials pilot these crafts, from another location), OR - it is ethereal entities, for we are not spirits in a human world, but humans in a spiritual world



raise da conscious yo

Originally posted by RFBurns
Its quite easy to see..even in a 256 gray scale video..

It was just a little joke.

an object doing manuvers at speeds unlike how just some fallen off ice particle or space junk moving into frame.

We can not know the speed because we can not know the distance, it looks somewhat fast but we do not have any real way of measuring it.

The tether breaking off doesnt zip away from the shuttle as if it was pulled or jerked away, it gradually moves away, as would any ice particle falling off the shuttle would do.

I think that an ice particle falling from the shuttle would move much slower than the tether, the tether was being pulled away by the satellite and all the kilometres of cable, the ice particles have nothing to pull them away when they fall from the shuttle, so they will keep on moving in the same direction and speed.

Once it broke, you can see that the very end of the long "rope" next to the point where it broke begins to "curl" as the entire thing moves slowly away. The "curl" of the end is because of the snapping of the tether, giving some intertia motion to that part of the "rope", much like how a rubber band breaking would make the two ends travel away from each other.

I think the coiling of the tether had more to do with the way it was kept before release, only the first reaction was the result of the breaking, the tether was not elastic enough.

I was only saying that I think that the tether moved to a higher orbit because of the dynamics of the whole system, but as I think that it has no relation to this video, maybe we should let that discussion to a different thread.

An ice particle wont zip into frame and then change direction unless something makes it move away from the shuttle and then change direction. Outside influence must play a role in the zero-G world. And that outside influence would have to be equal to or greater than the interia mass in order for it to have an effect. If its equal, it would stop, if its greater, it would move in another direction after slowing the initial motion, then proceed to move opposite direction of the influence against it.

That is what I think we can see on the video, the object is moving in one direction but, affected by some force, is forced to move in a different direction.

It is also possible that the object does not slow down, and that the "stop" is just a result of the projection of its trajectory on the plane of the camera; to the camera it stopped moving in that direction, and it was the only direction the object had, but for the object it was moving along two axis, and it only stopped moving along one before going in the opposite direction, but it never stopped moving, like when we see a Nascar race, the cars seem to move much slower when they get near the turns but they reduce their speed less than it looks, it's just a question of perspective.

Rats! Why is it they always turn the camera the opposite way when there is anything interesting to watch.

if you watch closely you can see a very lightly lit up dot diagnoly to top right corner a little way into, this could be put of as something on the earth like a plane, but planes dont move as fast as this did, it could quite possibly be that the brighter light is just a distraction from the less bright light, so if i were yall, i would be stocking up on weapons and ammo before an invasion happens

Originally posted by ArMaP
It was just a little joke.

I know. I got a laugh from it too.

Originally posted by ArMaP
We can not know the speed because we can not know the distance, it looks somewhat fast but we do not have any real way of measuring it.

True but are we trying to get down to the 10th decimal place accuracy with this or trying to figure out how an object, no matter where it is at from the shuttle, moves in such a manner as this one does in the OP's video when there is no obvious outside influence upon it?

As I posted earlier in reply to another member (post above), I do know something about Celestrial Mechanics. Though quite complex and formulas take up far more than what the 10,000 maximum character limit in this reply will allow, there isnt anything in the OP video providing outside influence on this object's movements.

That is the key thing here, where is the outside influence to affect the object's initial trajectory and speed, plus the effect to make it slow down, then the affect to make it almost stop, and then the effect that makes it turn and move away from where it almost stops?

Does not matter if its an ice particle, space junk, satellite, or an actual craft, something must interact with that object to make it move from one direction to another, be it internal influence from an engine or thruster or gravitic impulse drive, or external influence from the wake of a manuver thruster from the shuttle, or very close nearby satellite thruster, or something hitting the object, like a que ball hitting the 8 ball to the corner pocket.

Originally posted by ArMaP
I think that an ice particle falling from the shuttle would move much slower than the tether, the tether was being pulled away by the satellite and all the kilometres of cable, the ice particles have nothing to pull them away when they fall from the shuttle, so they will keep on moving in the same direction and speed.

Exactly. The tether does move away slowly as would an ice particle would after breaking away from the shuttle. The end piece of the "rope" curling up as it does is merely inertia placed upon it by the sudden break, causing the end for a moment to move in the opposite direction, but because the satellite is now pulling on the long rope, the curl does not grow very much, nor does it continue along the length of the rope, and that is because the satellite ball is pulling on the rope as it drifts away from the shuttle.

Before it broke, that entire mess was moving along at the same speed as the shuttle. Once it broke, inertia takes over, and the satellite begins to slowly slow down, which is why we do not see it suddenly vanish off into the distance, but we do see the slow down effect slightly by the limited curl of the rope end where it broke off. That break force is what caused the curl, but still not enough inertia in the break itself to cause the curl to continue up the rope's length because the satellite ball is still pulling on that rope.

Originally posted by ArMaP
I think the coiling of the tether had more to do with the way it was kept before release, only the first reaction was the result of the breaking, the tether was not elastic enough.

I used rubber band as an analogy. It is true the tether was not very elastic, but just enough for when at the moment it breaks, there is a sudden "jerk" inertia in the direction of the pull of the satellite ball on the long rope, which is why the curl did not progress down the line. Had the satellite ball and rope been moving at the same speed upon it releasing from the shuttle, that curl would have made its way up the rope's length and became shorter in length due to the curl itself.

Originally posted by ArMaP
I was only saying that I think that the tether moved to a higher orbit because of the dynamics of the whole system, but as I think that it has no relation to this video, maybe we should let that discussion to a different thread.

Agreed that this point should be discussed elsewhere, but this point does have some merit to this thread in the issue of the object's movements in zero G vacume of space. I raised the tether point because if the object was just some chunk of ice breaking away from the shuttle, then it would not speed across the frame as we see the object do in the OP's video. It would mimic the movement of the tether moving away slowly as its velocity changes vs the shuttle's velocity.

Originally posted by ArMaP
That is what I think we can see on the video, the object is moving in one direction but, affected by some force, is forced to move in a different direction.

The big question..."some force". And I agree, if this is just some piece of junk or ice, something..or "some force" must be involved here to make it do 3 things we see in this video....1, zip from right to left and slow down...2, come to an almost dead stop....3, do an about face and move in almost an opposite direction..about a 170 or so degree about face.

Originally posted by ArMaP
It is also possible that the object does not slow down, and that the "stop" is just a result of the projection of its trajectory on the plane of the camera; to the camera it stopped moving in that direction, and it was the only direction the object had, but for the object it was moving along two axis, and it only stopped moving along one before going in the opposite direction, but it never stopped moving, like when we see a Nascar race, the cars seem to move much slower when they get near the turns but they reduce their speed less than it looks, it's just a question of perspective.

The camera's postion, and even pan, is not changing significantly enough to apply in this case. In fact, watch that video closely, that object makes its slow down, and stop, and turn and move in the other direction before the camera even attempts to move or pan to the left.



Cheers!!!!