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NASA STS-114 UFO Footage - Can it be debunked?

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posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 



Maybe this is their home planet.


certainly possible i agree

i think one of the reasons people look to the E.T. explanation here is because it makes more sense that something unexplainable would not be from Earth.

with millions of people having had a UFO sighting and many of the cases involved witnesses claiming to have seen beings or entities it's no wonder why people think the object in the video could be something Alien.

this is why NASA needs to be transparent and show us all the evidence.




posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Damn those thruster firings missing from STS-114 can't help them debunkers explain that object's manuvers. Toss out everything else in the world to draw attention away from the issue..they are good at that..but addressing the issue...the score is zilch.


In case you didn'n notice, that response with thruster firings was an response to Drummerroy39, which can't explain for itself another video posted by him, with an ice particle suddenly changing direction. So, the drawing attention is not from me. It was a response to him, because him urges for responses. Please pay attention and not became exalted without reason.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by depthoffield

Originally posted by RFBurns
Damn those thruster firings missing from STS-114 can't help them debunkers explain that object's manuvers. Toss out everything else in the world to draw attention away from the issue..they are good at that..but addressing the issue...the score is zilch.


In case you didn'n notice, that response with thruster firings was an response to Drummerroy39, which can't explain for itself another video posted by him, with an ice particle suddenly changing direction. So, the drawing attention is not from me. It was a response to him, because him urges for responses. Please pay attention and not became exalted without reason.



Do not leave out the rest of the quote so that you wont appear to be foolish...as I said...dozens of times, that example, and others with thruster flash, have NOTHING to do with THIS thread's video of the object.

I think we all know whos paying attention to the issue and whos trying to DIVERT the attention FROM the issue.

Maybe it isnt you..maybe it is. But people can make their own judgements...at least I hope they can. I've made mine. And it will stand till the day they put me 6 ft under.

So has anyone come up with a good explantion yet about that object doing its turn and burn?

Cheers!!!!

[edit on 28-2-2009 by RFBurns]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Because ice does not suddenly turn on its own unless something acts upon it. That is my basis for what I believe...fair enough?

Now..as to everything being a fantasy. How long do you think these visitors have been around, given ancient records of them and paintings...are we to accept that there is nothing else in the entire universe other than the arrogance of man?

No thanks, I dont intend to live inside such a tiny box.

If that is unacceptable to some...oh well...deal with it. I do and dont have a problem with it. Why should you or anyone else?!!!


Cheers!!!!



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Because ice does not suddenly turn on its own unless something acts upon it. That is my basis for what I believe...fair enough?

Particles can be perceived to do virtually anything, even when they're actually doing nothing, and especially when the observer is ignorant of the velocities, trajectories and distances all interacting to create an illusion. I've already demonstrated in my animation how an object traveling in a straight line can be perceived to make an acute turn relative to the observer, even though the object never actually makes an acute turn. It's all in the perception of the observer.

Now, I still am not grasping the leap of logic that gives you extraterrestrial intervention based solely on an ice particle that appears to change direction. That's still fantasy. Why not divine intervention? Why not voodoo?



Originally posted by RFBurns
Now..as to everything being a fantasy. How long do you think these visitors have been around, given ancient records of them and paintings...are we to accept that there is nothing else in the entire universe other than the arrogance of man?

First of all, Man's arrogance manifests itself in many ways, not the least of which happens to be criticizing your own species for its arrogance. Declaring that humans are so insignificant and arrogant suggests that you're in possession of a higher awareness that the rest of your own species doesn't share. Which is arrogance, given that you have demonstrated no such higher awareness.

The truth of the matter is that humans may well be the highest intelligence in the universe at this moment in time. You may hate to hear it, but we may well be the only intelligence (as we perceive intelligence) in the entire history of the universe. There's a very good probability that human logic and "critical thinking" and math and science and right & wrong and good and evil exist nowhere else except on Earth.

I can just hear the UFO foamers sputtering in righteous indignation.


See, in a universe of "infinite possibilities," the possibility that we are alone is just as valid as any other possibility. Another possibility — more like a probability — is that the truly unexplainable UFOs originate from right here on Earth. That's why they're only seen in the vicinity of Earth. Given that these UFOs have been seen by humans dating back into pre-history suggests that they live here, if "they" are biologic organisms at all. UFOs may just be thought forms, subconsciously projected by our bloated human brains against a backdrop of cosmic isolation.

In ages past we attributed UFOs to the divine. Now we attribute them to something equally preposterous and unprovable. But all "evidence" and conjecture aside, we just don't know what they are. We have about as much chance of nailing down the UFO phenomenon and explaining it to everyone's satisfaction as a group of raccoons would have trying to nail down and explain the unfathomable phenomenon of Humans.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 2/28/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Particles can be perceived to do virtually anything, even when they're actually doing nothing, and especially when the observer is ignorant of the velocities, trajectories and distances all interacting to create an illusion. I've already demonstrated in my animation how an object traveling in a straight line can be perceived to make an acute turn relative to the observer, even though the object never actually makes an acute turn. It's all in the perception of the observer.


I suppose the camera preceived this one lone particle amongst the others that did nothing to move about in such a manner that any pre schooler could tell you HEY THAT ONE MOVED and doesnt need to clutter the issue about velocities and trajectories and distances and all the other debunk nonsense to try to explain away the obvious.

Prove that object never made a turn ok. Once you can do that, then you have my attention..until then..well its just your opinion on what you want to see.


Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Now, I still am not grasping the leap of logic that gives you extraterrestrial intervention based solely on an ice particle that appears to change direction. That's still fantasy. Why not divine intervention? Why not voodoo?


I suppose that if a train smashes into a stalled car on the tracks in a video you would apply appears to that obvious too? Probably because you were not there to actually see it and most likely be the first to cry CG HOAX...yep...your right...what your seeing is fantasy in that OP video...to YOU.

Keep dreaming. The rest of us are awake and well aware of what is happening there.


Originally posted by Doc Velocity
First of all, Man's arrogance manifests itself in many ways, not the least of which happens to be criticizing your own species for its arrogance. Presuming that we are so stupid and insignificant suggests that you're in possession of a higher knowledge than that of your own species. Which is arrogance, given that you have no such knowledge.


Never said I had any higher knowledge than anyone else..but you know what?....I have far more knowledge to know the difference between reality and your fantasy ice particle. So do hundreds of thousands of others who have seen that video. Care to dance with all of us? (Maestro...hit it!)



Originally posted by Doc Velocity
The truth of the matter is that humans may well be the highest intelligence in the universe at this moment in time. You may hate to hear it, but we may well be the only intelligence (as we perceive intelligence) in the entire history of the universe. There's a very good probability that human logic and "critical thinking" and math and science and right & wrong and good and evil exist nowhere else except on Earth.


No the truth of the matter IS that limiting your mind to the vast history well documented by ancients LONG BEFORE YOU OR I were EVER around managed to deal with the reality. It is a VAST universe, a shame people tend to limit their minds to ONE little world.


Originally posted by Doc Velocity
I can just hear the UFO foamers sputtering in righteous indignation.


Typical bunker BS...you can do better than that.



Originally posted by Doc Velocity
See, in a universe of "infinite possibilities," the possibility that we are alone is just as valid as any other possibility. Another possibility — more like a probability — is that the truly unexplainable UFOs originate from right here on Earth. That's why they're only seen in the vicinity of Earth. Given that these UFOs have been seen by humans dating back into pre-history suggests that they live here, if "they" are biologic organisms at all. UFOs may just be thought forms, subconsciously projected by our bloated human brains against a backdrop of cosmic isolation.


See, in a universe of INFINITE POSSIBILITIES, that means there are MORE than just ONE possibilities. Saying its only ice particles then later saying they only originate from Earth is not just a contradiction, but also an OBVIOUS FLAW in your logic. The only BLOATED BRAINS are the ones who hide behind ice particles that do nothing and never see the one that is DIFFERENT.



Originally posted by Doc Velocity
In ages past we attributed UFOs to the divine. Now we attribute them to something equally preposterous and unprovable. But all evidence and conjecture aside, we just don't know what they are. We have about as much chance of nailing down the UFO phenomenon and explaining it to everyone's satisfaction as a group of raccoons would have trying to nail down and explain the unfathomable phenomenon of Humans.


In ages past people did not have science fiction, they did not have H.G. Wells, or George Lucas, or Gene Roddenberry, or any of the other sci-fi media. They documented exactly what they had SEEN AND EXPERIENCED for WHAT IT WAS. They had no reason or motivation to fake what they wrote down. In essence, they were FAR more sophisticated than modern man, and FAR more honest.


I can PLAY with BB Code too. Im not impressed.





Cheers!!!!



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:31 AM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 
I can picture you actually standing up to write some of your more exasperated and angry posts
A lot of character comes through and it's a good thing. If I see one of your posts, I always read it.
This is in no way an insult, he's one of my favorite characters. On some of your more excited posts I'm reminded of this fellow...




One thing I notice however, is that you are clearly an intelligent and educated man. At times you insist on things being black and white. What is clear and concrete in your mind isn't necessarily so amongst others.



See, in a universe of INFINITE POSSIBILITIES, that means there are MORE than just ONE possibilities. Saying its only ice particles then later saying they only originate from Earth is not just a contradiction, but also an OBVIOUS FLAW in your logic. The only BLOATED BRAINS are the ones who hide behind ice particles that do nothing and never see the one that is DIFFERENT.


In a universe of INFINITE POSSIBILITIES it's possible that you are wrong about this footage. The possibility is as equal for the rest of us. If people disagree and offer a different opinion it needn't require you to insult their intelligence. I agree with some of your posts and disagree with others, at no point do I assume you are an idiot.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Prove that object never made a turn ok..until then..well its just your opinion on what you want to see.

So, you really don't have the lucidity to recognize that you have no case, right? I illustrated earlier how an object can appear to make a turn when it actually does not make a turn. It's called an optical illusion. Now, you prove that the object did make a turn. You're whole argument is that IT'S OBVIOUS! That's all you've got: "IT'S OBVIOUS!"

If that sort of reckoning held any water, Mankind would still labor under the delusion that the Earth was flat and at the center of the cosmos. Nevermind 500 years of planetary observation and astronomy, IT'S JUST OBVIOUS!


Originally posted by RFBurns
The rest of us are awake and well aware of what is happening there.

A little too awake, if you ask me. Next time, try breaking the caffeine pill in half.


Originally posted by RFBurns
Never said I had any higher knowledge than anyone else..but you know what?....I have far more knowledge to know the difference between reality and your fantasy ice particle.

So, you have no higher knowledge, but you have far more knowledge, but you're not willing to share your knowledge in this forum. All you can offer is "IT'S OBVIOUS!"


Originally posted by RFBurns
No the truth of the matter IS that limiting your mind to the vast history well documented by ancients LONG BEFORE YOU OR I were EVER around managed to deal with the reality. It is a VAST universe, a shame people tend to limit their minds to ONE little world.

As opposed to populating the universe with all sorts of fantasy creatures and fantasy civilizations for which there is not one shred of evidence. Yeah, let's not limit our minds — if we wish really hard, the universe can be teeming with Klingons and Romulans and Grays and Reptilians and all sorts of other OBVIOUS crap.


Originally posted by RFBurns
See, in a universe of INFINITE POSSIBILITIES, that means there are MORE than just ONE possibilities.

And any one possibility is just as valid as another. So, your argument is that there must be other intelligent species in the universe (preferably with advanced intelligence, so they can come show us how narrow minded we are) because it's possible that they exist. Guess what, it's equally possible that humanity is alone, that there are no other intelligent lifeforms in the universe. Hey, it's possible, but I'm not saying that it must be the case. I'm more open-minded than that, but I'm not so enthralled with Yoda and Jabba the Hutt that I refuse to accept a universe without them.



Originally posted by RFBurns
In ages past people did not have science fiction...They documented exactly what they had SEEN AND EXPERIENCED for WHAT IT WAS. They had no reason or motivation to fake what they wrote down. In essence, they were FAR more sophisticated than modern man, and FAR more honest.

You're kidding me, aren't you? So, these sophisticated and far more honest ancients did not fabricate the hybrid human-animal gods of Egypt and of Greek myth, they did not fabricate the Roman and Nordic gods and imbue them with superhuman powers, right? So the ancients were factually reporting these mind blowing half-human-half-animal dieties and fire-breathing dragons and all of the other baloney they worshipped back then. The ancients recorded all of that crap, so it must be real. And you just accept that, do you?

I think I'm starting to understand your rationale. And it's pretty screwy.


Originally posted by RFBurns
I can PLAY with BB Code too. Im not impressed.

Who's "playing" with styles? I write this way, have written in HTML and BB code (and in Hexidecimal, for that matter) for many, many years. And, frankly, I'm not trying to impress you with text styles, I'm trying to impress upon you some degree of clear thinking...Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be getting through.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
But people can make their own judgements...at least I hope they can. I've made mine. And it will stand till the day they put me 6 ft under.
Does that mean that you do not accept the possibility of being wrong?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
What evidence? Oh you mean all this other mumbo jumbo that dances the hoot-n-scoot up-n-down beat around the bush evidence. To which none explain what is occuring with that one object amogst others that suddently turns and burns.
No thruster flash, as I pointed out about a dozen times already. The object makes its turn and off in the other direction BEFORE the camera/shuttle pans left. No other object seen impacting it to make it go the other direction...no just some lone ice waste dump blob that has a mind of its own and zips off in the other direction....na nothing unusual there, nothing to see..move along.
PFFT!!!


There you go again, sneaking 'assumptions of things-to-be-proven into your original questions. You do it so consistently, I am compelled to conclude it's a deliberate policy of argumentative deception.

You ASSUME the curver is 'amongst' the background particle swarm and state falsely it is 'alone'. Why not keep your mind open to the possibility it (and at least one OTHER particle that is moving in the effluent direction) is either much closer to the shuttle -- and the effluent -- or (in Doc V's theory) much farther away, than the cloud. In routine space videos, flashes occur that push some particles but don't push others -- the reasonable explanation is some are closer than others.

You keep saying 'no thruster flash' as if it were proof of no effluent flow. Stop using your own ignorance as proof of something's impossibility. Often the flash is not visible if the thruster is too far out of the field of view -- just because you claim you haven't ever seen that is no evidence it doesn't happen. Also, there are other sources of entraining effluent than thrusters, and a water dump -- known to be happening at this time from documents I produced that you denigrate and deny importance of -- or even a flash evaporator operation (VERY close to the B camera, by the way) are candidates. That's why obtaining further evidence remains necessary.

Were you mimicking the sound of your UFO balloon deflating?


NASA has it made in the shade with gullibles out there.


Your whine seems to be that everybody is NOT gullible enough to swallow the nonsense and non-reality you have been shown, time after time, to be promoting. Space shuttles in geosynchronous orbit> Pfffft....



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
But people can make their own judgements...at least I hope they can. I've made mine. And it will stand till the day they put me 6 ft under.


It's harder to make valid judgments when you don't have all the facts and context about a mysterious event. RF, you seem to declare that the LESS somebody knows about an event, the BETTER from the UFO point of view.

You also declare that your mind will remain closed to any and all new evidence forever.

Thanks for the transparency.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns

Because ice does not suddenly turn on its own unless something acts upon it.

That is my basis for what I believe...fair enough?



The first statement, I think, is common ground (although some folks keep theorizing that evaporation from the surface of an ice particle could push it -- I haven't seen any indication that effect is real, but i'm open to it).

Your fundamental fallacy, however, is you assume there is no 'external actor', no disturbing effluent flow, and you do so based only on misunderstandings and ignorance that you vow to cling to forever.

And you claim to be open minded.

No, that's not fair. It's part of the problem, not part of the solution, to understanding the UFO phenomenon.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Never said I had any higher knowledge than anyone else..but you know what?....I have far more knowledge to know the difference between reality and your fantasy ice particle. ..


Uh, yes, you did, right here on this thread. You said that YOU alone, excluding me (who worked shuttle operations in Mission Control for more than two decades) and Doc-V and others, were privy to secrets of the space shuttle's hidden capabilities. You posed as the best informed space shuttle expert on this thread.

You did. We laughed. We laugh again.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 08:02 AM
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it is a cool clip of something, that's for sure.


but how do we know that clip is running "forward".

couldn't nasa run it backward?

can anyone reverse it and see?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 08:21 AM
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well in my opinion it is without doubt an unidentified flying object. is it alien or terrestrial? that is the million dollar question?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by secretnasaman
This thread has inspired me, thanks...and so because of the old saying, "listen to what they say,..but watch what they do", I have posted,as a start, 17 new NASA video clips on You Tube under secretnasaman! So check them ALL out and... enjoy ...cheers


This post is to "correct" the number (#) of newly posted NASA videos, on You Tube by secretnasaman, to 30...as I'm trying to assist this discussion...would someone check them out and throw up a link...

I do not think I should be the "decider"...I just do uploading and TV Docs,...an observer..and reader!

"They Live in the Sky"
TJC



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by secretnasaman
 


here you go...


www.youtube.com...

i watched all of them last night and there are a couple that are interesting.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 08:49 AM
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Thanks!...I really though nobody noticed...so
I just put up 10 more NASA UFO videos, to "ramp it up", to 30,... sooo take another look!...cheers



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by secretnasaman
This post is to "correct" the number (#) of newly posted NASA videos, on You Tube by secretnasaman, to 30...as I'm trying to assist this discussion...would someone check them out and throw up a link...

I do not think I should be the "decider"...I just do uploading and TV Docs,...an observer..and reader!



SNM, on your youtube posts, do you provide the date and time of the videos, so independent context data can be obtained -- or do you omit it, to keep people from finding it out?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by secretnasaman
 


I noticed it, but if they are not about this particular video I don't think you should be "advertising" them on this thread, you should make a new thread about it, even if you can not post direct links to the videos, a link like the one easynow posted would be enough.



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