Will US troops kill American's ?

Originally posted by debunky

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Not a chance in hell friend and the answer why is simple.

We have more guns, and we outnumber them.

Furthermore as the above post states those people are Americans, our brothers, sisters and friends.

They will turn on their government at the drop of a dime if all went to hell. The government would most likely need to have outside forces attempt to control us.

When push comes to shove, no army will turn on it's own citiziens, especially not when those citizens are better armed and won't take no for an answer.

~Keeper

LOL
You own an automatic rifle?
You own a helmet and kevlar vest that can stop at least some though not all bullets?
You own an armored vehicle?
You own artillery?
You own mobile artillery?
You own mobile armored artillery?
You own AA guns?
You own GA missiles?
You own GG Missiles?
You own a tank?
You own bombers?
You own Fighter jets?
You own Bombs?
You own cruise missiles?
You own Warships?
You own Aircraft Carriers?
You own ICBMs?
You own Warheads for the ICBMs?

Thats why that 2nd amendmend crap is just that, crap. It was valid in its time, when the difference between military technology and what civilians could get their hands on was the length of the barrel of the frontloader. Today the power gap is way to big.

I'm pretty sure that some patriotic former Special Forces soldiers could whip up a mighty nasty insurgency with what American Civilians have as far as hardware. Dont forget all of the former Military and Government personnel who got out and are now living in the civilian world. Some things you forget, but making war is not one of them. And believe me there are more former soldiers than current ones. Who can capture your equipment and use it against you. Not saying this is a pleasant outcome, or one that is likely. I believe our Generals would NEVER enforce a coup on our civil liberties. They'd be taking there own away at the same time. But make no mistake American civilians have teeth. The U.S military with all it's technology and weaponry is no match for a homegrown insurgency in the CONUS. This is still why our second amendment rights mean something. Technology and weaponry is irrelevant. This has been proven true in Vietnam, and Afghanistan.

I have full confidence that US troops will shoot and kill American citizens. It's very noble for any soldier on here to say otherwise but when the SHTF you are not going to be given the truth from your superiors, the Americans will be made to look like terrorists, aggressors or w/e to make it seem ok to fire upon them. The troops will be told that the constitution and the very essence of America depends on them doing their job and they'll do it. It's also very nice that everyone on here believes soldiers to be such free thinkers. I have several cousins in the military and only one of them I would believe to be able to have the courage and the foresight to see through the BS to not follow those orders. My friends who I grew up with who were intelligent enough in school who are enlisted I have no faith whatsoever in them making the right decision. Take that as a small subset and you can see why people believe the majority of enlisted are going to just follow those orders like any other.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by merryxmas]

Originally posted by merryxmas
I have full confidence that US troops will shoot and kill American citizens. It's very noble for any soldier on here to say otherwise but when the SHTF you are not going to be given the truth from your superiors, the Americans will be made to look like terrorists, aggressors or w/e to make it seem ok to fire upon them. The troops will be told that the constitution and the very essence of America depends on them doing their job and they'll do it. It's also very nice that everyone on here believes soldiers to be such free thinkers. I have several cousins in the military and only one of them I would believe to be able to have the courage and the foresight to see through the BS to not follow those orders. My friends who I grew up with who were intelligent enough in school who are enlisted I have no faith whatsoever in them making the right decision. Take that as a small subset and you can see why people believe the majority of enlisted are going to just follow those orders like any other.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by merryxmas]

It is examples such as you that will likely be dealt with first. If you are not satisfied with those that you feel are not able to think for themselves and their gift of their life to you in a war zone, then move to Iran. Until you put on a Cop uniform or magically become a soldier, there is nothing intelligent that you can add to this conversation. Likely you will do neither. You will sit at home collecting the rights that these individuals and teams earn for you everyday.

Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by Salt of the Earth

 

Are you even reading what I'm typing?

Brother.

If the day came where I was ordered to do such things - do you think I'd be the one following those orders?

Maybe you should read the undertones to what I'm writing that I can't just come out and say on here for fear of reprisal.

On second thought, it occurs to me that if you don't dare promise here on this forum not to round us up, force us to take innoculations, split up our families, rape us, wahtever -- if you are afraid to say here on this forum where you are anonymous, then you darned sure aren't going to say it when you are with your buddies in uniform and your sergeant tells you to go get 'em.

You are in the matrix, locked in, and can't get out. Yes, you will hurt us, yes you will enslave us. You are a slave yourself, and you will make a slave of all of us too.

www.whatdoesitmean.com...

fema camps open

Soldiers are not mindless animals. Their CO is not going to point at some man, woman or child and say "omg.. it's a terrorist, shoot it!" and they just comply. I think too many people have a mindset that soldiers are just cogs in some NWO machine, and not human beings.

When I served in the military, on one base, I was part of a group that was detailed to keep protesters off of the base. We'd form our line, and you'd be quite surprised at the level of venom and violence the average citizen can spew at your face. But during training for that, it was made abundantly clear what we could NOT do. There were so many points on the body we were not allowed to touch with a baton. Under the arms, anywhere on the head, joints, etc.. we had a hard time finding a spot we WERE allowed to hit if it came to that. The U.S. went out of their way to protect civilians, even those directly trying to attack us.

But aside from that, no... there was no way that I would have fired upon an American citizen unless they were threatening my life and I had no choice. And I know almost to a man, no one else in my company would have ever considered it either.

You are selling your own sons and daughters short if you think they will with a flimsy story, kill their own.

when it comes to a war between soldiers who war for money and those whoe war for principals and freedom.... those that fight from the heart always win.....whether or not that means dying or not....they still win!

reply to post by fleabit


Perhaps you should read the thread. It's happened before In America by the NG.

dept.kent.edu...
www.youtube.com...

It can and probably will happen again.
God help us!!





[edit on 24-2-2009 by whaaa]

With the proper training, and the proper psychological conditioning, or the under the proper circumstances, most soldiers and most civilians will do what they are told. People, when put in novel, stressful situations, have an inherent psychological desire to follow authority - it gives them a sense of security.
This was demonstrated in a well known psychological experiment, where test subjects were instructed to deliver electric shocks to an actor in a different room, who would scream convincingly and beg for mercy each time the fake shocks were administered.
70% of the test subjects continued to administer the shocks over the screams of pain and protest at the behest of their instructors, even past the point when they believed the victim was dead or unconscious.
This experiment demonstrates the fact that, when put in stressful situations, it is very easy for a person forget whatever ideology they have and simply do as instructed.
What this experiment also shows, is its not just soldiers we have to be worried about, its our neighbours, our family members, and ourselves. Most people, when asked if they wouldtorture or kill someone just because they were ordered to by an authority figure would say "no." Unfortunately, the results of the experiment show evidence to the contrary. Apparently, most of us would.
On another note...
Would American troops ever kill Americans? Of course they would! Police officers kill Americans, and the scenario I assume we are alluding to is Martial Law, in which the armed forces would be called on to "police" American citizens. In this situation, killings are inevitable, just as they are inevitable in regular law enforcement.

Mind control can and does happen to even the most honorable.
survivalacres.com...
Thanks for your service.

You guys are making it sound like it's going to be out of a Terminator movie. Its going to start with a peaceful rally, there will be a couple of "hot heads" who take it to the next level.Throwing bottles , snowballs, breaking windows. The "crowd control" will be told to disperse the crowd. Someone is going to "hear" a bang , a loud noise, then TSWHTF.

reply to post by Salt of the Earth


First off - I am "the Sergeant" - a Staff Sergeant to be exact.

Secondly - if you check my profile, I'm not exactly all the way anonymous.

Finally - short of actually coming right out several times and saying it not only on this thread but several others with the same theme -

"I WILL NOT KILL INNOCENT AMERICAN CIVILIANS."

I don't know what else you're looking for.

If the American military is anything like a cross section of America; and it is; more than likely there are elements in the military that are white racists that would like nothing more than to cut loose with their M16A2's on a group blacks, Mexicans, Jews or commie pinko white kids.

Here is an interesting article....

www.nytimes.com...

and

www.stripes.com...

To think that the people mentioned in the above articles wouldn't fire on civilians is extremely naive.

Many here would like to elevate the American military to Christlike stature but the military, like all people are able to be manipulated by a powerful authority figures, ideology, racism or religion.

Reality isn't pretty is it?

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house!



[edit on 24-2-2009 by whaaa]

Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by Salt of the Earth

 

First off - I am "the Sergeant" - a Staff Sergeant to be exact.

Secondly - if you check my profile, I'm not exactly all the way anonymous.

Finally - short of actually coming right out several times and saying it not only on this thread but several others with the same theme -

"I WILL NOT KILL INNOCENT AMERICAN CIVILIANS."

I don't know what else you're looking for.

I want to know if you will comply with orders from your superiors to:

1. Order American citizens at the point of a gun into a military truck to go to a FEMA camp, even if they beg and plead not to be taken?

2. Split up families at the point of a gun, even if they are begging you not to be?

3. Force people to submit to innoculation at the point of a gun, even if they are begging not to be?

4. Confiscate people's defensive firearms as the Guard did in New Orleans, at the point of a gun?

5. Confiscate people's stores of food and medicine or anything else that belongs to them at the point of a gun?

6. Butt your way into somebody's home and demand lodging, food, and people to wait on you at the point of a gun?

This is what I'm asking. Not whether you would shoot us, but if you would do these other things. Your refusing to answer on an internet thread tells me that the answer is obviously that you would comply with the orders of your superiors to perform these unlawful and unconstitutional orders upon your fellow American citizens.

Everybody knows the bird flu vaccines are designed to give people the flu, that they will walk around and infect everybody else, and then die themselves in two weeks. Everybody knows the military gives soft kill vaccines and shots both to its own soldiers and to others.

Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Lenin all had soldiers working for them. If you work for a corrupt government, that makes you corrupt yourself. The Nuremburg trials settled that.

Originally posted by Salt of the Earth

Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by Salt of the Earth

 

First off - I am "the Sergeant" - a Staff Sergeant to be exact.

Secondly - if you check my profile, I'm not exactly all the way anonymous.

Finally - short of actually coming right out several times and saying it not only on this thread but several others with the same theme -

"I WILL NOT KILL INNOCENT AMERICAN CIVILIANS."

I don't know what else you're looking for.

I want to know if you will comply with orders from your superiors to:

1. Order American citizens at the point of a gun into a military truck to go to a FEMA camp, even if they beg and plead not to be taken?

2. Split up families at the point of a gun, even if they are begging you not to be?

3. Force people to submit to innoculation at the point of a gun, even if they are begging not to be?

4. Confiscate people's defensive firearms as the Guard did in New Orleans, at the point of a gun?

5. Confiscate people's stores of food and medicine or anything else that belongs to them at the point of a gun?

6. Butt your way into somebody's home and demand lodging, food, and people to wait on you at the point of a gun?

This is what I'm asking. Not whether you would shoot us, but if you would do these other things. Your refusing to answer on an internet thread tells me that the answer is obviously that you would comply with the orders of your superiors to perform these unlawful and unconstitutional orders upon your fellow American citizens.

Everybody knows the bird flu vaccines are designed to give people the flu, that they will walk around and infect everybody else, and then die themselves in two weeks. Everybody knows the military gives soft kill vaccines and shots both to its own soldiers and to others.

Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Lenin all had soldiers working for them. If you work for a corrupt government, that makes you corrupt yourself. The Nuremburg trials settled that.

Alright, we'll play this game.

Let's go down the list.

1) I don't work for FEMA - so no.

2) Is there a good reason? Did the father shoot at me? If so tough # - shouldn't have rolled the dice. If nothing happened to put me in danger, then no.

3) WTH? No - I'm not a medic.

4) Are people using their "defensive firearms" to "defend" against me and my soldiers? If so - then yes - they can't play with toys they can't be responsible with. If they haven't presented a danger to me - then no.

5) I'm not a looter - so no. And to add - It wouldn't matter if I took your store of food or not anyway - regardless of your situation, I'm getting 3 hots and a cot.

6) Do you know anything about the constitution and bill of rights? That whole "troops having quarter in American homes thing" - - yeah - that's not happening.

Now - you need to be extremely careful before you start accusing me of being similar to a German soldier circa 1940-44. I'm not the guy who is going to be the blank face with an assault rifle out there in the cities of America shooting people for no good reason. I'm sick and tired of having to repeat these same two things on this forum, so let me do so again.

1) I SWORE ALLEGIANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. NOT TO ANY ONE PERSON.

2) I AM DUTY BOUND TO NOT FOLLOW UNLAWFUL ORDERS.

Apparently you have no clue about my history on here. Here are a couple of links for you.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So there you go.

If you have any further questions - feel free to throw them in. But like so many others on here - I'm sure your half-paranoid drivel is going to get abuout 50+ more stars and you're going to completely miss the point of what I'm saying - but there are your answers plain and simple.

Finally. Don't you ever presume to compare me to Nazis. You should be so lucky there are people like me in the military. It's # like this and what other people on here say that makes one almost "ALMOST" think twice about giving a damn. Keep that in mind.

Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by Salt of the Earth

 

...

"I WILL NOT KILL INNOCENT AMERICAN CIVILIANS."

...

The concern is are you sure you will know who the 'innocent civilians' are. Knowing history, do you suppose our government might just lie to the soldiers about who is innocent.

I can't speak for everyone but the feeling I get is not that people think the military will just come rolling in obliterating everything and everyone in sight, but that events will unfold to where people fighting against an out of control government will be targeted as domestic terrorists(or some similar label).

What if things devolve to where people actually start to take to the streets. I don't mean carrying a sign thinking some politician actually gives a crap what you think, I mean really meaning business. Do you suppose our beloved leaders may get a bit nervous?

The police force in any city would be easily overrun if everyone finally became pissed enough to act as one. The government would have no choice but to call in the military to 'restore order'(save their own asses).

Now we have a hairy situation. How would the military respond to this? Surely the people here have a right to be pissed at our leaders for their corruption. Anyone with more than a 6th grade education could see the raping of our nation right before our eyes.

Our politicians and judges, or most of them anyway, have made it clear they care not what we think. Protesters are cordoned off into 'free speech zones'( I thought the entire country was one), arrested, beaten, and generally ignored. If you try and write to them you get the standard form letter in return promising to 'look into it' knowing they will not. Here's one for you. I used to work for a senator. A pretty well known one. My job? Answering the letters addressed to him by his constituents. I would send the proper form letter back to them and, if warranted, forward the letter to the proper agency. (If they were complaining about bad living conditions it would get sent to the housing department) The senator never saw the letters.

Anyway back to the topic. Will the military see the angry people as having legitimate concerns? Or, will they see them as a domestic threat like they will surely be portrayed. Actually they will be a threat, to the ones giving the orders to the military.

Now there is a standoff. I, and others, just can't see the military putting down their guns and saying, well you guys have a good reason to go lynch these guys...SO GO GET 'EM. There are only two things that can happen. People see the military, get scared and leave or someone fires the first shot and all hell breaks loose. It doesn't matter who fires first, and I suspect if the gov't sees the military siding with the people a little too much, there will most definitely come a shot from the peoples side just to kick things off.

At this point, are pissed Americans finally standing up for themselves still innocent? Or, are the people who quietly bend over and continue to let the government have their way with them the only innocent ones?

It's easy to say you won't fire on innocents, and I believe that, I just think the word innocent is relative and the lines could get blurred pretty bad.

reply to post by Primordial


Yes, and you have legitimate concerns.

All I can say is this - I think if it ever did get that bad in the states you would see division in the military.

You'd have people (of course) who will blindly follow orders with no second thought to the truth.

You'd have people who will fight alongside the citizens to restore the legitimate government* Hmm.... wonder who that could be.

You'd have people who would just leave and go home - throw their weapons down or hell - take it with them and get the hell out of dodge.

You'd have people who (unbelievable as it is) would kill themselves.

You'd have people who take advantage of the chaos and start raiding/looting.


SO it boils down to this. The military is a cross-section of the American populace. In a situation where the US Government was collapsing around us, I think depending highly on specific situations, you'd see a lot of different reactions. Definitely order would be hard to maintain. For sure.

Thanks for your service and perspective, Sgt.(so we CAN complain)
Somehow, after reading all these posts I don't feel much safer.
Do a few bad apples really spoil the whole bunch then?
Or, are there just a certain percentage of people that seem to
just enjoy killing and asserting power over others?
Just askin'. I've always wondered that.
Maybe you have seen that in others in the military.
Thinkin' out loud now, I'll get back under the bridge...

Thanks for the candid answers and for sticking up!!!

[edit on 24-2-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by dodadoom
Thanks for your service and perspective, Sgt.(so we CAN complain)
Somehow, after reading all these posts I don't feel much safer.
Do a few bad apples really spoil the whole bunch then?
Or, are there just a certain percentage of people that seem to
just enjoy killing and asserting power over others?
Just askin'. I've always wondered that.
Maybe you have seen that in others in the military.
Thinkin' out loud now, I'll get back under the bridge...

Thanks for your support and it's "SSG"

What do you mean by a few bad apples - as far as in the military or civilians?

There are always going to be people who for whatever reason enjoy causing others pain. I have yet to meet one person who enjoyed what we had to do in Iraq. Even when it's the enemy - I can tell you that to take a life changes you in ways I can't explain. It's not a fun experience by any stretch of the meaning. Definitely not something you'd want to repeat. I'm sure the ones who do like it are probably out there, but I don't know any.

reply to post by mf_luder


Thank you for an honest answer. The division you speak of is what people are most concerned about, or at least that's how I see it.