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From Captive To Suicide Bomber

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posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 01:45 PM
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From Captive To Suicide Bomber


www.washingtonpost.com

Accused of Being Little More Than a Low-Level Taliban Fighter, Abdallah al-Ajmi Was Held by the U.S. for Nearly Four Years. After His Release, He Blew Up an Iraqi Army Outpost. Did Guantanamo Propel Him to Do It?
...
Ajmi has become a symbol of the vexing challenge his (Obama) administration faces in adjudicating the fates of terrorism suspects held by the U.S., a process that almost certainly will result in the release of additional detainees among the approx 245 now in custody there.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 01:45 PM
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Guantanamo and the secret camps of it's kind are starting to bare fruit. This is another "Mission Accomplished" for the Military Industrial Complex, Oil Industry & Israel's security-interests/land-acquiring-motives. Justification or our presence in Iraq for as McCain said/predicted... at least for another "100 years"... and I can't help but take this as a calculated message to Obama, just in time for him to reconsider his position on evacuating Iraq.

One from the Israeli rule book on under handed play. Encourage/foster a provoked attack, then play it off as a "terrorist" act, giving you the perceived high ground to maintain your strangle hold.

www.washingtonpost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 22-2-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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If you make it through the entire article you can see an escalating cycle. They provoke him to have a reaction then they punish/provoke him which in turn he reacts to and is further punished/provoked and so on and so forth.



Sometimes the guards turn the temperature so hot that you cannot wear a shirt. Sometimes they turn it so cold that is like the North Pole and they take your blanket away. At the beginning I was very badly beaten by U.S. soldiers and guards. . . . But the worst torture to me is that the guards make fun of my religion and dishonor the Koran.


But by the next session, in May 2005, Ajmi was in trouble again. A few weeks earlier, he grabbed a guard's microphone. It was tied into the camp's public-address system. "This is General al-Ajmi and I'm in control now," he announced. "Everyone is going free."
...

Ajmi was sent to an isolation cell. He lost access to books, to a pen and paper, to his blanket. He told his lawyers that he was being forced to take medication. A relaxant, he said. If he didn't swallow the pills, he'd be punished... "I feel like I'm falling off a cliff," he told... I would interpret this as a push toward suicidal thoughts.

Then a month later he has reportedly developed a propensity for hurling his feces and urine.

A couple months later he's released, when other Kuwaitis who had not been in trouble at Guantanamo were held behind.

A couple years later, on a easter sunday, he drives a pickup truck filled with 5k to 10k lbs of explosives (hidden in flour sacks) onto an Iraqi army base outside Mosul. He barreled though the entrance checkpoint and past a fusillade of gunfire from the sentries, shielded by bulletproof glass and makeshift armor welded to the cab. As you can see the forethought in planning this attack.

Right after having made a video... professing...



"Praise be unto God, who evacuated me from Guantanamo prison and joined me with the Islamic State of Iraq... We are going, with permission from God, to God -- glory be unto him. We will enter the nests of apostasy."


So in sum his 4 years at Guantanamo University paid off. We turned a peaceful kuwaiti into a productive suicidal iraqi martyr.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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These prisons were never intended to solve any problems, the Bush administration wanted war, lots of it.

What better way to get others to hate you and want a war as well, than to imprison them, torture them, defile them, all without trial, without closure, then just toss them back out and let them seek their revenge?

I can't think of a better way to get someone to seek retribution.

Basically, thanks to Bush's failed attempt to start a middle-east wide war, you've now got people all over the world that want the US to burn for what your country had done to them.

The sad part is, allot of these people were simply bystanders until they were tossed into a cell.

Arms industry can't turn a profit when no-ones shooting.
Bush sought to change that.

Thank god the madman is out of office.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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Well said johnsky and i'm sure this is the strategy at play in our blind support of israel. If we enrage the arab world enough to strike us first, then we have "merit/excuse" for our increased presence/intervention in their affairs i.e. tapping oil reserves and providing "security".

What i find particularly interesting about this specific case, is in how it illustrates another insidious means to which we go to create an enemy. Mix in a couple false flags and you have completely fabricated the perception of there being a real threat. They realize that bin laden has faded as the designated boogie-man. I'm even surprised now when i see the occasional talking head bring him up as if he's still alive.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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Another ticking time bomb graduated from our "school of terrorism":
Guantanamo detainee freed after 4 years in prison


LONDON – The first Guantanamo detainee released since President Barack Obama took office returned to Britain on Monday, saying his seven years of captivity and torture at an alleged CIA covert site in Morocco went beyond his "darkest nightmares."

Binyam Mohamed's allegations — including repeated beatings and having his genitals sliced by a scalpel — have sparked lawsuits that could ensnare the American and British governments in protracted court battles.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 12:34 AM
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It doesn't take a Ph.D. in psychology to figure out that if you brutalize a person enough they will turn into an aggressor. "Pay back time" eventually comes.

We have this same problem with our own prisons and prisoners here in the U.S.

I'm not saying that Al Quada and some of the talibans and other Islamic militants are all innocent--they are not. They have perpetrated some horrendous acts against the west and westerners and have tortured and executed many captives, including Americans. They would violently dispose of more of us if they could get their hands on us.

Nor am I saying that all American prisoners should live in the equivalent of Hilton hotels, eat gourmet food, or be immediately released (although I think some drug offenders would be less detrimental to society if they were freed).

I thought closing Guantanamo was a step in the right direction, although it looks like reform hasn't gone far enough and there will still be brutality in our prison camps.

But this guy's act of revenge is a no-brainer. Why would anyone expect him to react differently?




[edit on 24-2-2009 by Sestias]



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 12:36 AM
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Im struct by a bit on the Daily Show that features Elmo as Gitmo prisoner and his comment . "Elmo not terrorist when he went in but he is one now!



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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Sadistic abuse breeds all kinds of bad things.

No rehab for those people.

Did any of you ever wonder what happens to the people who do the abuse to these people?
Another army of sadistic killers.


Good news all around. Just what Satanic Bush and Cheney wanted.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by FredT
Thank you... I found the Daily Show's Guantanamo Baywatch segment you were referring to with Elmo as Gitmo prisoner (at the very end). Originally aired 6/19/2009...

As usual Stewart is insightfully funny.

Again the circumstances/conditions and timing of these releases are very suspicious. True motives appear to me to be the perpetuation of endless war by means of creating new boogie-men, justifying the continuation of a bloated military/security budget.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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That's right, they were all such good boys before they were put in that terrible place, it's Gunatanamo that did this to them, Guantanamo made them terrorists, it's all the fault of the US etc etc.

The only thing this proves is that:

1. He was actually more dangerous than the original assessment.

2. His internment gave life and safety to countless others for 4 years.

3. These people cannot be "fixed".

4. We should have shot him while we had the chance.

5. The Washington Post won't be happy until America is just as insane as the UK.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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Thats right, imagine putting Osama Bin Laden in Gitmo, what do you think he will do? Thats right he will become a terrorist.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by Retseh
You fail to see that we turned him into a suicide bomber.
Placing the blame on him is myopic and irresponsible.
Your 5 point stance is baseless. As noted in the article:



What makes Ajmi's journey from inmate to bomber so disturbing to top government officials is the fact that he never was deemed to be among the worst of the worst. He was not one of the former top al-Qaeda operatives considered "high value" detainees; nor was he regarded as someone who posed a significant, long-term threat to the United States.

Compared with what other Guantanamo detainees were believed to have done, the principal accusation leveled against him -- that he fought for the Taliban -- was unremarkable. At his Combatant Status Review Tribunal, he was not accused of perpetrating any specific violent acts other than "engaging in two or three fire fights with the Northern Alliance," according to a summary of evidence presented by the military.

As one former U.S. government official involved in detainee issues put it, Ajmi was "never on anyone's top 10 list of people we expected to return to the fight."


[edit on 24-2-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by Retseh
 


You are assuming that the CIA and the Bush administration with thier use of Extraordinary Rendition and slezy hazy legal justification got the right guy int he first place. Heck anybody on a camel sporting a turban was public enemy #1.

I love how you blindly accept that ALL of these guys were guilty :shk: See if you are as charitable if its your loved one who vanishes in the middle of the night in some CIA plane taken to god knows were and tortured.

If these guys are so guilty of thier crimes, why are they letting so many go?

I have no issue with the guilty being executed of locked up untill they are dust. But they need to actually be guilty eh?



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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It does not take 4 years to process these detainees through a tribunal.

What is the plan?

Closing is fine but now that we have them, and no one else seems willing to have them released into their countries, they are now either guilty or traumatized into rage.

Expedite the system either in a tribunal or US court system and eliminate the problem.

Sentencing, or release to country of origin.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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So you are saying that they may or may not be terrorists or suicide bombers when they go in to Guantanamo Baywatch but are when the come out. Now why does that sound so familiar?



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Retseh
That's right, they were all such good boys before they were put in that terrible place, it's Gunatanamo that did this to them, Guantanamo made them terrorists, it's all the fault of the US etc etc.

The only thing this proves is that:

1. He was actually more dangerous than the original assessment.


Wrong. He wasn't viewed, at the time of, and during, his imprisonment, to be someone of 'intrinsic value'. He blew himself up because he wanted to get back at someone for having been tortured.


2. His internment gave life and safety to countless others for 4 years.


LOL. No it did not. Did it help those who were killed in the 7/7 bombings? Did it help those who were killed in the Bali bombings? Did it help those who were in the Japanese sarin gas attacks?

Please attempt to Deny Ignorance, I know it's hard but just give it a shot eh?


3. These people cannot be "fixed".


What do you mean by 'these people'? Sounds like you are detaching yourself from what is going on, blinding yourself so to speak, so as you can justify the inhumane and torturous treatment of people who haven't even been formally charged, let alone do they have evidence against.


4. We should have shot him while we had the chance.


After the way he was treated for 4 years at Gitmo, I am sure he thought the same thing about you lot. In fact I know it, hence the big BOOM.


5. The Washington Post won't be happy until America is just as insane as the UK.


LOL. Sorry to burst your bubble here but America has proven it's insanity many times over during the last 50 years. You don't need any help looking or acting insane.

[edit on 24/2/2009 by Kryties]



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by The All Seeing I
 


I have been illegally detained and while not water boarded I was sleep deprived, starved, beaten, etc...

It did not turn me into a suicide bomber.

Imho it is an easy knee jerk judgment to to determine that detention and abuse will make an individual into a suicidal terrorist.

Intelligence interrogation is a huge gray area as to what is legal when, to whom, and what is really effective.

I submit that there is no concrete guideline to be used, just a adjustable procedure and protocol.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by kerontehe
 



While YOU may not feel any animosity towards others for your treatment (as little as it was), you cannot assume to know or dictate the thoughts of others, particularly those who have grown up in a middle-eastern country and have years and years of own and foreign government abuse under their belt.

These people come from countries with thousands of years of history and culture, and coming in and and doing whatever you want to their country pisses them off. I don't blame them one iota for that. Then you go and illegally pull them off the streets and subject them to sustained torture for periods over 3-4 years.

And you wonder why they then want to blow you up? Doesn't take a genius to figure this out, it only requires you to come out from under the rock you've been hiding under.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


That depends on what you define as torture.

It also presumes that the detention was illegal.


These also have not been answered other than for each of us individually.

What authority gets to decide these questions and to what authority is the USA accountable?

Let me also introduce the concepts of defacto and dejure. That is - what really happens versus what our playbook and admissions say happens.



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