A Conversation on the Economy. (must read)

If a UFO lands on the White House it will be ignored. People are conditined from school to obey others, later they accept that their time is owned, and all that remains is the search for "safety" and "comfort".

They will ignore anything threatening these two things, because they don't know anything else, they can't think for themselves this was denied to them, also starting in school.

www.ascentofhumanity.com...

Schools train individuals to respond as a mass. Boys and girls are drilled in being bored, frightened, envious, emotionally needy, generally incomplete. A successful mass production economy requires such a clientele. A small business, small farm economy like that of the Amish requires individual competence, thoughtfulness, compassion, and universal participation; our own requires a managed mass of leveled, spiritless, anxious, familyless, friendless, godless, and obedient people who believe the difference between "Cheers" and "Seinfeld" is worth arguing about.

Having given up their idealism, they can get on with the business of survival: practicality and security, comfort and safety, which is what we are left with in the absence of purpose. So we suggest they major in something practical, stay out of trouble, don't take risks, build a résumé. We think we are practical and wise in the ways of the world. Really we are just broken and afraid. We are afraid on their behalf, and, less nobly, we are afraid of what their idealism shows us: the plunder and betrayal of our own youthful possibilities.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by pai mei]

reply to post by pai mei


Too true. That's why we call them Sheeple. The Higher Ups are the wolves circling the pack and causing them to freak out and panic.

So this weekend I placed a bet with my Mom that the DOW would drop more than 150 points on Monday. She said it wouldn't drop that far maybe 100 points.
As a term of our bet I said if it drops 150 points you will go out and buy a case of Spam for our emergency food supply.
I'm sitting next to my case of Spam and although I won the bet I am saddened to say that I also see the DOW falling tomorrow and the next day. Maybe even hitting 6000 in the first days of March.

Truly a sad year when you expect the markets to drop everyday.
I am glad I pulled out my stocks last summer.

reply to post by Hx3_1963


No enslavement only freedom for We The People with the New Exchange. No dribble drabble only the facts.

Great discussion. I offer a quote that always stuck with me from Oliver Stone's Wall Street released in 1987 -

"It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a Zero Sum game - somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply, transferred - from one perception to another. Like magic. This painting here? I bought it ten years ago for sixty thousand dollars, I could sell it today for six hundred. The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes, the more desperately they want it. Capitalism at it's finest."

20 years later the illusion of the "market" has been pushed so far and so hard it is being deconstructed before our very eyes. Another one -

"The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's bull#. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal."

Pretty much sums up every corporate minded drone that helped bring this reality to it's inevitable conclusion.
Last, this popular gem -

"The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms - greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge - has marked the upward surge of mankind, and greed - you mark my words - will not only save Teldar Paper but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you."

And this is exactly the philosophy that created it all. Pretty ironic, no ? I recall seeing this film at 19 years of age and seeing it all for what it was. In my late 20's I was in a position to "try" my hand in the stock market and within 6 months realized again what I knew at 19, that it was a complete illusion. Within a year or two after that the dot com bubble burst. Since then it's been more propping up, more bubbles and bigger and bigger pops. A shell game to offset stagnant wages and manufacturing outsourcing has finally proved to be unsustainable.

It's a shift, or an adjustment that was inevitable. The game has shown itself, and either we collectively decide to stop playing or co create the next phase in the illusion to lessen the blow. I see the latter happening. We need to face the fact that the system we've placed our security in is fundamentally flawed, and another system needs to replace it. With any luck the general public will stop blindly trusting the media and the government and start being the watchfull "eagle" it needs to be.

We need to be vigilant and aware, but NOT fearfull. Fear does not help anyone make good or intelligent choices, and if things do deteriorate to a worse case scenario it'll be the ones that keep a level head and think clearly that will make their way through it.

reply to post by maudeeb


Wonderful quotes and all too true.
With the economy getting worse everyday, people are starting to finally get angry about these things. The grand awakening to the unfair system that is our financial system is set to happen with most likely a violent reaction.

Originally posted by maudeeb
"It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a Zero Sum game - somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply, transferred - from one perception to another. Like magic. This painting here? I bought it ten years ago for sixty thousand dollars, I could sell it today for six hundred. The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes, the more desperately they want it. Capitalism at it's finest."

I'm not so sure about that. If I was loaned sixty thousand dollars... I suddenly owe eighty thousand with the interest... that's twenty thousand that suddenly exists out of thin air... no more zero sum... now it's a -20000 game.

I have a general understanding of economics, but I feel like there are some fundamental pieces to the puzzle that, even with my never ending research, I don't understand, or can't have explained to me. The sad thing is, even with this knowledge deficit, I still feel like I understand it more than the general public. I even feel as though I have a better understanding than the politicians in office do.

If some of these politicians think the internet is tantamount to a series of tubes, is it not entirely possible that these same major decision makers have absolutely no understanding of how the economy works? Is that not a frightening thought?

I may as well have my car brakes fixed by my barber...

Originally posted by Avarus

I'm not so sure about that. If I was loaned sixty thousand dollars... I suddenly owe eighty thousand with the interest... that's twenty thousand that suddenly exists out of thin air... no more zero sum... now it's a -20000 game.

I can understand that view. The reality is, the 60 grand you were "loaned" doesn't really exist in the first place. Check out "Crash Course" or any of the documentaries out there on how money is loaned into existence in our current system. I'll stand by Gordon Gekko (the character those quotes are from) - it is BS. The fiat system is a scam, pure and simple. It's based on perpetual expansion and is in no way sustainable. You could view the various market bubbles over the past ten + years or so as a means of forced expansion to keep the whole thing afloat. Everybody's focused on the charlatans and the major fraud cases that have come to light, but look deeper and you'll realize that we would have never had such a strong economy over the past decade and more without the scams. They were driving the economy. And to anybody that argues otherwise I only ask if they weren't then why is it falling apart now that they've been exposed ?

There's not a hell of a lot to understand really - the economic rhetoric and jargon spewed by all the “experts” is a cover, a means of making something sound too technical for the average person to understand it. Under that cover is an ugly truth, the fraud is at the core of the system- not because of deregulation and greed but because the system itself is a fraud. Could it have gone differently? Absolutely. Can a new system be dreamed up to fill in for the short term until we work it out – I damn well hope so! I mentioned on another thread that a return to a solid more constitutionally based system would be a great start.

I just thought I would post these links here. Very informative. Maybe it will help family members to understand what happened, is happening and how serious everything is:


"Navigating the Economic Crisis"

"Navigating the Economic Crisis -Update"

cryptogon.com...

www.salon.com...

The global economic meltdown has already caused bank failures, bankruptcies, plant closings and foreclosures and will, in the coming year, leave many tens of millions unemployed across the planet. But another perilous consequence of the crash of 2008 has only recently made its appearance: increased civil unrest and ethnic strife. Someday, perhaps, war may follow.

As people lose confidence in the ability of markets and governments to solve the global crisis, they are likely to erupt into violent protests or to assault others they deem responsible for their plight, including government officials, plant managers, landlords, immigrants and ethnic minorities. (The list could, in the future, prove long and unnerving.) If the present economic disaster turns into what President Obama has referred to as a "lost decade," the result could be a global landscape filled with economically fueled upheavals.

Indeed, if you want to be grimly impressed, hang a world map on your wall and start inserting red pins where violent episodes have already occurred. Athens (Greece), Longnan (China), Port-au-Prince (Haiti), Riga (Latvia), Santa Cruz (Bolivia), Sofia (Bulgaria), Vilnius (Lithuania) and Vladivostok (Russia) would be a start. Many other cities from Reykjavik, Paris, Rome and Zaragoza to Moscow and Dublin have witnessed huge protests over rising unemployment and falling wages that remained orderly thanks in part to the presence of vast numbers of riot police. If you inserted orange pins at these locations -- none as yet in the United States -- your map would already look aflame with activity. And if you're a gambling man or woman, it's a safe bet that this map will soon be far better populated with red and orange pins.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by Sergeant Stiletto]

For anyone who's been watching the events unfold in the economy and government's handling of it there are very few "culprits" to target in this country at least.

#1 - The persons in the market itself who engineered and supported these large scale scams.

#2 - The government entities responsible for supporting/ allowing or turning a blind eye to the scams.

Not that I suggest it really is that simple but if there's going to be protests and violence in this country perpetuated by the people it'll be against wall street and washington.

It’s only through the total collapse of the world economic markets can the elite, or powers to be, can ever take over the entire world. I keep trying to tell my friends and of course my wife this, but to only get the same old look “are you crazy or something?”

Well yes I’m crazy, that’s why I’m buying gold!! Getting food supplies and ammo up to par, and at least trying to prepare myself. Better to at least be prepared and have excess then to be in a real bind and have nothing at all.


By the way today $1 is worth $1 today. Next year it will be worth 50 cents!! Don’t believe me, look at Germany in the 1920’s.

I have mentioned to others now for over a year that something was going to happen and no one in our area has even started trying to get ready for anything. I have seen folks lose jobs left and right and they are getting further in the poor house day after day. Yet the economy isnt getting any better and I dont think it will get any better. I hate to say it but I think its going to get much worse before it ever gets better. But so many people just look away and act as though the government will fix everything. We can already see that isnt going to happen. CNN showed that 80% of the people are getting upset because only 1% of the stimulous is really going to make jobs. I cant blame folks for being ticked off.

Yes its going to get much worse. And when it does those of us whom have prepared will be ready for what is to come. The others wont and may not make it through what is coming. Survival will be for those who are prepared for what is coming. And the ones who can turn away, may not make it.