Proving Religion to be....... everyones right....in under 10 seconds

Does God Exist?

People believe but nobody knows. the very definition of faith is to believe something is true without having proof or having proof be required.

The Universe is truely bizzare, unpredictable, astounding, awe-inspring and totally amazingly beautiful.

I'm sick of all this trying to prove dissprove BS.

In the end, none of us KNOW any better than any of the rest of us so why not let everyone believe whatever the hell they want and just get on with your life? Please. It just makes me sad to see....and I'm an athiest, can't imagine how people who rely on beliefs must feel

reply to post by Chonx

I'm sick of all this trying to prove dissprove BS.

Well, trying to prove and disprove is one reason most members are here...even if it's just from the sidelines.


But one thing's for sure...The In 10 Seconds or Less threads need to stop.

reply to post by chapter29


i agree ! disproving disprovers is disproving all the same. talk about pulling a ratner! you have already labled this thread BS before you had finished posting.

not only that, it took me about 14-16 seconds to read.

reply to post by chapter29


I see what you're saying but to me there is a massive difference between healthy, intelligent debate and discussion, which is what I'm here for and making a thread with a controversial title simply to get a rise out of people who have passion in their beliefs , which is what I think all of these 10 second threads are about.

Nothing can ever truly be proven or disproven 100%.
Saying you can do it in under 10 seconds just makes it even worse.

reply to post by BorgHoffen


"Nothing can ever truly be proven or disproven 100%.
Saying you can do it in under 10 seconds just makes it even worse."

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If it can't be proven (like you say) than 10 seconds is just as irrelevant as 10 years. No better and no worse.

A better way of saying it is - "Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted."

Peace

ok ok, the I only titled this thread with the '10 seconds thing' to be satirically ironic and draw attention to what I wanted to say about those types of threads. It's not because of some massive oversight on my part in terms of what I was trying to acomplish...... And I know the original post takes longer than 10 seconds to read, I tried to avoid being convoluted but thats not the point....

Well I can see you are mocking my thread but anyway...

This is the "Conspiracies in Religion" board... of course it is going to be full of people attempting to disprove religion....

If you don't like it don't come here...

reply to post by Gregor100


Hi Gregor100, If you read the little bit of text at the top of the board it says that it is indeed for discussion of conspiracies, scandals and cover-ups.

But I don't think your thread does any of that, You are just being pedantic about the language used in the Bible and considering thats after translation I'd say it's a pretty meaningless arguement.

I'm not mocking you either, Please don't see it that way. I just disagree with the way your thread and others like it present themselves in a smug and self-righteous way when they really have nothing to offer but a meaningless inflammatory statement.

reply to post by Chonx


"I just disagree with the way your thread and others like it present themselves in a smug and self-righteous way when they really have nothing to offer but a meaningless inflammatory statement. "

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Meaningless - Dear friends, I am not writing a new commandment, for it is an old one you have always had, right from the beginning. This commandment – to love one another – is the same message you heard before. Yet it is also new. (1 John 2:7-8 NLT)


and....


Inflammatory - Stand in silence in the presence of the Sovereign LORD, for the awesome day of the LORD's judgment has come. The LORD has prepared his people for a great slaughter and has chosen their executioners. "On that day of judgment," says the LORD, "I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs. (Zephaniah 1:7:18 NLT)


Peace

Originally posted by TheRealDonPedros
reply to post by BorgHoffen

 

"Nothing can ever truly be proven or disproven 100%.
Saying you can do it in under 10 seconds just makes it even worse."

---------------------------------------------------------

If it can't be proven (like you say) than 10 seconds is just as irrelevant as 10 years. No better and no worse.

A better way of saying it is - "Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted."

Peace

Ah well actually, I didn't say "It cant be proven".
I said "Nothing can ever truly be proven or disproven 100%".
Surely you can see the difference between those 2 statements right?
The best DNA testing we have, gives a result of 99.9999998%.
Its considered proven, but its still not 100%, is it?

reply to post by BorgHoffen


The word "ever", in "nothing can EVER be truly proven 100%" implies infinity.


When your equation is dealing with "infinity" then regardless what variable you plug into it, it still cant compute.

10 seconds over infinity.... 10 years over infinity...

Different equation, same result.


Peace

reply to post by Chonx


So...are you defending each and every religion or just the ones that follow the specific god you are allowing us the right to worship?

reply to post by Chonx


So...are you defending each and every religion or just the ones that follow the specific god you are allowing us the right to worship?

reply to post by Luciferdescending


I'm not defending any religion. Where did you get that from? As I stated earlier, I am an athiest and what I'm defending is peoples right to believe whatever they want as nobody else KNOWS any better regardless of what they say. The reason I'm doing it here and now is because of the recent spate of 'I can prove blah blah blah' threads which to me at least are not in any way connected to discussion of conspiracies within religion.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by Chonx]

[edit on 22-2-2009 by Chonx]

reply to post by Chonx

I am an athiest and what I'm defending is peoples right to believe whatever they want as nobody else KNOWS any better regardless of what they say.

So what you are saying is that you don't know for sure that there is no God. No matter what you say, Interesting...

gotta add my 2 cents to this one, being a Christian Mystic myself.

Honestly, the spiritual path uses faith/belief in God only in the beginning stages of the path. It's like being a spiritual scientist ...you give the experiment the benefit of the doubt and and have faith/trust that eventually you will be shown whether its real or not.

Well lookee here!!!!! Eventually you directly experience God and know subjectively for yourself that God, the soul, heaven, and spiritual beings are all real. Then faith/belief get thrown out the window because your seeing and experiencing those spiritual realities yourself.

Of course until you experience these things, its only right/natural to have a tendency towards agnostic/atheism and doubt it all. I was there once too!!!!!

But now, I claim 100% for sure that I know God is real, the soul is, and that I underwent Spiritual Enlightenment ...something that's still ongoing from 5 years ago!!!!! Knowing is beyond belief and faith, and I have that knowing.

reply to post by Gregor100

Originally posted by Gregor100
Well I can see you are mocking my thread but anyway...

This is the "Conspiracies in Religion" board... of course it is going to be full of people attempting to disprove religion....

If you don't like it don't come here...

It should actually be full of people attempting to uncover conspiracies in religion. "There is no God!" is hardly a conspiracy. A pretty solid portion of the world doesn't believe in God (or doesn't care).


Also....
Assuming 1 to represent a singular unit, and + to represent summation, and 2 to represent a collection of ONLY two 1s, we can safely say that:
1 + 1 is 2.

Hence, something CAN be proven 100%.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by babloyi]

reply to post by jon1


Exactly. I Am an athiest. The reason I choose not to call myself an agnostic is because I do not, as far as I understand life and the universe, believe that there is a god. Conversly, I also understand that I do not have a comprehensive understanding of how the universe works so who am I to go around telling people categorically that there is no god when there is the possibility that my understanding of the universe is flawed? I don't. Unlike some people who, either for want of ATS points or some perverse enjoyment, do that very thing.

Originally posted by babloyi
Also....
Assuming 1 to represent a singular unit, and + to represent summation, and 2 to represent a collection of ONLY two 1s, we can safely say that:
1 + 1 is 2.

Hence, something CAN be proven 100%.

Sorry. Bertrand Russell and Alfred Whitehead composed a massive book trying to prove exactly that (Principia Mathematica, and no it's not Newton's Principia but was inspired by it), and he was immediately refuted and his objective was even proven impossible by other mathematicians, including Kurt Godel.


The problem is this: how do we prove the operation of addition? It is an arbitrary operation and ultimately has to be understood intuitively before it can be "proven," and so it avoids being formally proven, because there is nothing to prove. We made the whole thing up. "1 + 1" could easily "add" up to "10" if the "+" symbol has no formal basis that can be "proven," besides what we just call it and say it is. Same with multiplication, division, etc.

This is exactly the problem they faced when trying to formally prove every single axiom in our mathematics. We are just faced with the fact that a lot of it was invented intuitively and can't be proven no matter how logical it seems to us, because we're setting up our own dominoes to knock down. We define something and the definition itself becomes the closest thing to "proof" you can reach, but of course it's arbitrary.