Swiss Right Wing calls for Retaliation on USA

It's funny to hear about people "hiding" money in Swiss banks.

Money is just data.

They should say "my financial information is stored on computers there rather than here."

There's no pile of cash or gold anywhere anymore. At least, very little compared to the number of dollars out there... (perhaps less than 1/10th of 1%)


If you want anonymous storage of your finances, get gold and silver and tuck it away or bury it where no one knows. The banking system is vulnerable because the money doesn't exist, and at the whim of anyone with enough technical knowledge, or someone who wants to create a new law changing what "money" is, or which banks their bank's computers will talk to, giant fortunes can evaporate, just like they do in stock markets, or on foreign currency exchange markets.

Hard money is the only safe money.

In an encouraging show of backbone, the Swiss People's Party called for sanctions against the U.S. today in retaliation for the IRS meddling in the affairs of UBS's private client accounts.

Among the proposed sanctions are the repatriation of Swiss gold held in the U.S. and banning the sale of U.S. funds in Switzerland.

And on the other hand...

That the American government used the economic downturn to bend an allied government to its will should give everyone of means and intellect pause. Big Brother is a reality folks.

Emboldened by this capitulation, the feds are now insisting the bank give them the identities of all 52,000 American account holders.

Is it wise to tick off a staunch ally who is already our de facto representative to countries where we have no diplomatic presence? The U.S. has already succeeded in putting an end to the "bad behavior", as UBS has already closed all the accounts. Where is the benefit especially in the context of the current meltdown?

Humm this is going to get very very interesting...

It seems like 52000 people with 15 billion dollars of undeclared assets is definitely something worth looking into. Thats over 1/4 mil apiece.
I'm suprised that the US is actually trying to get the records though. Most of those people are probably influential businessmen, celebrities and politicians.

The Swiss should stick to their guns. They have just as much right to protect swindlers, fugitives and criminals as the US government does.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
We're talking about one of the most powerful countries in the world, at least in economic terms...

Definitely!

Does the Rothschild Bank AG Zurich ring a bell with anyone? Or the Swiss Warburg Bank Just two of the most powerful banking families on the planet.

London may be the worlds financial hub but Switzerland is the worlds money launderer.

The amount of economic sway that bankers in this country holds is MASSIVE.

Originally posted by username371
Hard money is the only safe money.

Unfortunately that is not completely true. The value of precious metals may not be subject to deletion but you can still lose a fortune when you need it most because of value fluctuations.

reply to post by Dermo


Bingo! RB AG and SWB for starters. Add to that 30.5 billion in gold boullion. And who else might be banking in the alps? Last time I checked...the Vatican banks in Switzerland.

And has anyone heard of Onyx, the Swiss Interception System? They know all the dark corners.




[edit on 22-2-2009 by burntheships]

[edit on 22-2-2009 by burntheships]

[edit on 22-2-2009 by burntheships]

Something else to think about.

The IRS can seize or freeze your US bank account and apply a levy against your bank account without going through the court system. In the eyes of the IRS, you're guilty before proven innocent. That itself is a good reason to keep some emergency cash outside the hands of the IRS. So keep that in mind in our cases, as 14 banks crashed this year and many more are expected to crash, more and more of us are keeping money in other places than banks, since we need to pay bills and buy food if something happens to the ATMs or electronic transfer. The wealthy have much larger bills to pay, and if the IRS locks up their US bank, they're toast, and so are all the innocent folk that are employed by them.

Note that wealthy would include pretty much every business out there.

Good for the Swiss!!!........I hope they see this through and prove to the world that the usa has to stop trying to push people around.....

Showdown. Can not wait to see how this shakes out!
Swiss criminal law vs US Internal Revenue Code

UBS AG said in a U.S. court filing Friday that its employees would be forced to violate Swiss criminal law to comply with the U.S. government's demand for the identities of 52,000 private account holders as part of a massive tax-evasion inquiry.
Friday's filing threatens to draw both the U.S. and Swiss governments deeper into the already acrimonious showdown between the U.S. and UBS over the bank's private-banking practices. UBS argues in the filing that Swiss law "strictly prohibits UBS and its employees from disclosing to the [Internal Revenue Service] the account information located in Switzerland." Instead, the bank says, the U.S. government's petition "simply ignores the existence of Swiss law and sovereignty."

Originally posted by burntheships
"Instead, the bank says, the U.S. government's petition "simply ignores the existence of Swiss law and sovereignty."

I cant wait to see what happens here because the US can't play any kind of military card in Europe and the Swiss government holds quite a bit of leverage over the US high rollers.

The IRS cant really do anything to force them to give up the bank account details if they don't want to.

reply to post by Dermo

Yes and consider this: UBS filed a response to the IRS in court on Friday
possibly putting them in their place? The IRS does not have the power here yet. We are talking treaties ratification. They are way out of bounds. I am glued.

UBS also argued in Friday's filing that the IRS's demand would require the rewriting of tax treaties between the two countries that dictate how and what information can be disclosed. "To the extent that the IRS is not satisfied with treaties that the U.S. government has negotiated, that concern should be remedied through diplomacy, not an enforcement action," UBS said in the court filing.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by burntheships]

America is just grabbing at others on it's way down.

The Swiss will have none of that.

Originally posted by St Udio
Now why would UBS select 1/2 of 1% of the 'names' to give the IRS??

perhaps these are accounts by present member of congress,
or maybe accounts of Obama administration appointees...??

so, by answering the IRS request... the USA will be getting an international Slap-In-The-Face in return...

result; the IRS request will be the lastone ever made

I was just thinking the same thing. It would be a fantastic slap in the face to ONLY release the names of people directly in politics (or their families). Want to make a wager on whether or not the Kennedy's have an account there? I'd love nothing more than the Swiss to release politically significant names as a retaliation for trying to push them around.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the idea that people are stashing money over there and aren't paying taxes on their interest and the like. But I hate the IRS far more than I'll ever hate those people stashing money.

If the Swiss have some good dirt on the US and its politicians I'm sure that releasing even a modest amount of it through a media source would be a great way to impress upon the US it's proper place in things. Here's a hint. If Hitler didn't mess with the Swiss, the US had better take heed and avoid pressing them.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
About time the IRS is getting what they deserve.

Those jack boots have been running around for decades imprisoning people and taking peoples property or no reason at all.

I say good. Also because I believe in privacy rights.

This is going to be fun to watch the secretive US government get a taste of its own medicine.

Keep in mind that someone in the United States has to pay taxes and since the rich aren't because they're hiding it, we get to pay their taxes.

I hope the IRS nails those rich, tax cheaters to the wall.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Yet some Americans wonder why non-Americans perceive America - or at least the American government - as being arrogant?

If the world was a kindergarten, America is like the little kid who thinks all the toys are his for the taking and that the other children have to play the way he wants to play or it's somehow wrong.

Maybe this is very true...but let us replace the U.S. with any other country out there as number 1......England of course had its day and how did that turn out for....lets pick....India........How about France? or Spain? But don't you worry, you will get your opportunity with China. So come back and post about how bad the U.S.A. was when they were number 1. Hey, maybe the Soviet Union will make a bid again.

reply to post by burntheships


It's not entirely true that they remained neutral, at least during WWII. They helped manufacture weapons for the Nazi's, and helped keep their money/gold safe. If you do a quick google search you can find out some more information on that. They did a wonderful job though as many people do still think that they were truly neutral! Here is a good quote:

U.S. Undersecretary of War Robert P. Patterson wrote of this trade, in a document recently uncovered at the National Archives: "Down to the fall of 1944, the Swiss produced and exported to Germany large quantities of ammunition, aircraft parts, radio equipment and other military supplies....They also furnished electric power to Germany, and their railroads carried a heavy traffic for the Germans between Germany and Italy. These activities were of substantial assistance to the Germans in waging war."

Source: www.jcpa.org...

Here is a quick link I found, there is a lot more information available if you look around, at both of these links.

I guess sort of a side topic, but it relates. I don't think that they should have to give up their documents though, even though I would love to see some of the more prominent names on it, as I'm sure many people would.

www.switzerland.isyours.com...

reply to post by jfj123


It's true that the rich need to pay their taxes just like everyone else, but the US has absolutely no Constitutional authority to strong arm another nation. An Agency of the United States (the IRS) has ZERO Constitutional authority to even try it.

If you want to reduce taxes, here's a thought. Bring home the troops stationed overseas, especially those in Europe and Asia, and let those nations fend for themselves. Close all the bases and suddenly there's a HUGE amount of revenue we're NOT spending in other nations. The influx of troops back into the US allows us to get them properly rearmed and get their training back up so they'll be ready should Congress Declare War. Let's do everything we can to get our troops everything they need, but let's do it with them at home.

As for the taxes issue, here's a thought, let's get rid of the income tax and bring in a sales tax on everything but food (excluding restaurants). Here's why I think this way. What do a bunch of digits on a computer screen or a printed out statement get you? Perhaps those digits on the screen make you happy, but that's all they are. They are digits. If you logged into your bank and found that suddenly, you had $4.5 million, you'd be rather happy about that. But it's only digits - until you spend it. Those digits don't matter. They only matter the second you take those digits and give them to someone else in the form of a purchase or gift. The taxes on purchases is where it's at. Those digits online get you nothing until they are actually spent. You can save that money as long as you want, gaining interest, but that interest is also just digits. It's nothing tangible. I say, bring in a sales tax.

The Swiss are right to stand up to us. They are a sovereign nation being coerced by an agency of the United States. That's not only Unconstitutional, but urging them to willfully break their own laws. The answer is a huge NO.

Thing is this, even though that banking acount information is secret, it is sort of a non legitimate loophole if you are actually a citizen of the U.S., I do not know if this applies to dual citizens, if you have income and are a citizen of the United States you must report any and all income to the IRS, so in essence the U.S. is doing the needful right now, uncovering illegal tax shelters, very rich people knowingly stashing away their money, either they know the disclaimer about reporting this and are acting criminally or they don't and will soon find out why they will have to disclose the money they have in these accounts, some money in the form of profits off of U.S. citizens, business dealings and interests, I think this is a good thing, most of us here should not fear for the amounts of money they are looking for and the people doing this are in a whole different echelon, they are looking for multi millions, quietly put into these ages old illegal stashes for the rich, I myself have no pity on whoever is caught up in this.

It is not blackmail, the Swiss should have long known that their policy aides and abetts U.S. citizens of in their attempts to horde all money from the government and God knows use it for what ever purposes without being scrutinized, hell if there were people right in the U.S. that are domestic terrorists that fund all of their operations from one of these accounts wouldn't you want to know? Swiss bank accounts are possibly the cesspool for all kinds of crime and coverup shenannigans, i mean they attempt to track foreign terrorist money trails so why not, suppose there are U.S. citizens that really aren't U.S. citizens but are tied to actual terrorists? also I do not see why Monte Carlo is not a target, what it comes down to is that a lot of companies have offshored their operations, still getting benefits of being a so called American company, yet they shelter their earnings from the U.S. and the tax system that applies to all U.S. citizens, you can't have your cake and eat it, some big things are going to happen behind this, watch and see.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by phinubian]

Originally posted by Pimpish
reply to post by burntheships

 

It's not entirely true that they remained neutral, at least during WWII. They helped manufacture weapons for the Nazi's, and helped keep their money/gold safe. If you do a quick google search you can find out some more information on that. They did a wonderful job though as many people do still think that they were truly neutral! Here is a good quote:

U.S. Undersecretary of War Robert P. Patterson wrote of this trade, in a document recently uncovered at the National Archives: "Down to the fall of 1944, the Swiss produced and exported to Germany large quantities of ammunition, aircraft parts, radio equipment and other military supplies....They also furnished electric power to Germany, and their railroads carried a heavy traffic for the Germans between Germany and Italy. These activities were of substantial assistance to the Germans in waging war."

Source: www.jcpa.org...

Here is a quick link I found, there is a lot more information available if you look around, at both of these links.

I guess sort of a side topic, but it relates. I don't think that they should have to give up their documents though, even though I would love to see some of the more prominent names on it, as I'm sure many people would.

www.switzerland.isyours.com...

Don't forget that BMW and a few banks here in the US sent money and supplies to Germany during the war.
For BMW they sent planes to Africa to be repainted and sent to Germany.

Duplicate post

[edit on 22-2-2009 by burntheships]