Ron Paul to Bill Maher: America's War on Drugs must end

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Those statistics are overly simplistic.

The Japanese don't smoke marijuana, yet they have among the lowest rates of murder and heart disease, and the greatest longevity. They have other diseases, related mostly to their consumption of soy.

Actually the Japanese have reported marijuana use is up and criminal rates have gone down.

research dont just claim, research.

reply to post by caballero


The phrase "not bright" is reserved for special people

Then how can you legalize THC extract but not the cannabis leaf?

Logical fallacy

If you don't worship marijuana, then you sure are a marijuana apologist

LOL @ civil rights, you're killing me

The female cannabis plant is tortured in order to maximize output

reply to post by WISHADOW



Actually, marijuana and coc aine are produced in Mexico and the Caribbean.

Please don't tell me you believe that people are saving their money just to buy legal marijuana.



[edit on 23-2-2009 by vcwxvwligen]

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


What are you talking about?
Your post makes no sense what so ever.

Let me tell you straight up, your arguments are very flawed and they lack evidence to back them up.

Your basically giving us your biased opinion.

Read up on some facts.

More marijuana used by Americans is produced in America, border control has made it harder for international imports.
And if we were to legalize THC, then the whole plant would obviously be legal. You cant make certain parts of things legal and other parts of the same thing illegal thats idiotic.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by caballero]

[edit on 23-2-2009 by caballero]

Originally posted by caballero
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

What are you talking about?
Your post makes no sense what so ever.

Let me tell you straight up, your arguments are very flawed and they lack evidence to back them up.

Your basically giving us your biased opinion.

Read up on some facts.

More marijuana used by Americans is produced in America, border control has made it harder for international imports.
And if we were to legalize THC, then the whole plant would obviously be legal. You cant make certain parts of things legal and other parts of the same thing illegal thats idiotic.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by caballero]

[edit on 23-2-2009 by caballero]

"Border patrol" seems to have no problem letting in the drugs that they want to let in. As a matter of fact, the border is not even controlled by the military, but by gangs.

Civil rights to roll a joint is a fu_cking joke. That would be a total slap in the face to African Americans. The gays have tried it too, and guess what -- it hasn't worked.

That's what I'm saying, in order to legalize THC extract the leaf has to be legalized as well.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by Reddupo

 

Ok, but after you're done with that, read this: www.sciencedaily.com...

Okay but after you're done with that, read a scientific review of that study here: jrsm.rsmjournals.com...

Turns out the study used only four patients to make that statement of causation.

A BMJ editorial1 attracted a very large electronic mail bag, it was criticized for flawed arithmetic35 and pilloried in a book on logical thinking.36 A subsequent editorial substantially has corrected its message37 and put things in better perspective; but the statement about bullae remains uncorrected. It is of great concern that this belief about cannabis and lung bullae should have gained such wide acceptance without the production of better evidence. Perhaps myths are more easily made than forgotten.

The truth is, when you find all the negative articles on marijuana, you'll find larger, more credible studies disproving them. An example is the "pot smokers 20x more likely to get lung cancer" found by a terrible poll without using proper scientific method, and the largest cannabis-lung cancer study EVER conducted (which was done by ucla) saying there is absolutely no link.

Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by Reddupo

 

Ok, but after you're done with that, read this: www.sciencedaily.com...

Okay but after you're done with that, read a scientific review of that study here: jrsm.rsmjournals.com...

Turns out the study used only four patients to make that statement of causation.

A BMJ editorial1 attracted a very large electronic mail bag, it was criticized for flawed arithmetic35 and pilloried in a book on logical thinking.36 A subsequent editorial substantially has corrected its message37 and put things in better perspective; but the statement about bullae remains uncorrected. It is of great concern that this belief about cannabis and lung bullae should have gained such wide acceptance without the production of better evidence. Perhaps myths are more easily made than forgotten.

The truth is, when you find all the negative articles on marijuana, you'll find larger, more credible studies disproving them. An example is the "pot smokers 20x more likely to get lung cancer" found by a terrible poll without using proper scientific method, and the largest cannabis-lung cancer study EVER conducted (which was done by ucla) saying there is absolutely no link.

Anyway, the jury is not out that marijuana is 100% safe, much less life-enhancing

"No link" meaning that the participants exhibited multiple risk factors?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Anyway, the jury is not out that marijuana is 100% safe, much less life-enhancing

"No link" meaning that the participants exhibited multiple risk factors?

Yes well the jury got out a long time ago and is vacationing in Acapulco that high fructose corn syrup and caffeine are terrible for you.

You want to pretend that there is something so incredibly lethal inside marijuana that science or thousands of years of experience have just happened to not come across?

Yes we've proven there are some amazing benefits to it. This is apparent in both empirical and anecdotal evidence. Yes there might be a 1-2% drop in lung function if you're a chronic user, but if you run in bad shoes you can develop knee problems. Are you going to not fly in airplanes because there is a 1/100000 chance you'll be on one that crashes?

There is just no argument for illegality. Especially "it might hurt you...maybe".

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Im done arguing with you.

Your arguments are completely biased with what im assuming is your own opinion rather than fact. You provide no scientific evidence and your posts are sloppy and confusing.


I would advise other members to stop feeding the troll.

Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Anyway, the jury is not out that marijuana is 100% safe, much less life-enhancing

"No link" meaning that the participants exhibited multiple risk factors?

Yes well the jury got out a long time ago and is vacationing in Acapulco that high fructose corn syrup and caffeine are terrible for you.

You want to pretend that there is something so incredibly lethal inside marijuana that science or thousands of years of experience have just happened to not come across?

Yes we've proven there are some amazing benefits to it. This is apparent in both empirical and anecdotal evidence. Yes there might be a 1-2% drop in lung function if you're a chronic user, but if you run in bad shoes you can develop knee problems. Are you going to not fly in airplanes because there is a 1/100000 chance you'll be on one that crashes?

There is just no argument for illegality. Especially "it might hurt you...maybe".

HFCS absolutely should be made illegal, as should tobacco. Caffeine and ethanol are difficult to avoid in raw food

Not incredibly lethal, but it seems like people are really gung-ho about getting it legalized, while there are more serious issues on the table. Where is the push to ban fluoride? Pharmaceuticals? Artificial sweeteners? Why does junk food still contain hydrogenated oil?

Seems more like an insincere effort towards undermining the authority of the US government. A strictly constitutional republic wouldn't be as peachy keen as Ron Paul is making it out to be. The Constitution would more likely be amended if the US were to revert to strict constitutionalism. Amending the Constitution has been a wet dream for many politicians since time immemorial


[edit on 24-2-2009 by vcwxvwligen]

A most excellent conversation on the war on drugs and legalization.
I sometimes feel that if the "right" people don't get their little palms greased, nothing happens. We elect representatives, and they go blank, we vote on ballot measures, and most people don't think, we listen to the news and for most of us, swallow it all hook line and sinker. Good God almighty!!

I hate to say it but "the common sense party" would be great, except most of us (that can vote) have no common sense. How about the "we all run for office party" and whoever gets elected does what we all agree on. Wouldn't you just love to see 5 or 6 people at a town hall meeting, and 4 of them are for exactly the same thing. I know, it's a very silly idea.

It's really about education. Mass education. And unfortunately, we've only had the light bulb for a little over a hundred years. We're starting to wake-up, albeit slowly. But, we will get there. Keep on gettin' the positive ideas out there everyone. It's just about time for us to come out of the darkness.

I don't smoke pot anymore. I'm sure once upon a time I did my fair share. Ain't no big deal.

The big deal is that there a whole lot of folks who have lost their jobs and their houses. And still this whole game of "the drug war" persists. People need to WAKE UP and become involved in the system if they want to change it.

The ONLY reason alcohol and tobacco are legal is that big business has paid off the law makers and has spent a hell of a lot money fighting any kind of legalization or decriminalization because they can't make money off of what you can grow in your backyard. It's all about the money!!!

I don't smoke pot anymore. I'm sure once upon a time I did my fair share. Ain't no big deal.

The big deal is that there a whole lot of folks who have lost their jobs and their houses. And still this whole game of "the drug war" persists. People need to WAKE UP and become involved in the system if they want to change it.

The ONLY reason alcohol and tobacco are legal is that big business has paid off the law makers and has spent a hell of a lot money fighting any kind of legalization or decriminalization because they can't make money off of what you can grow in your backyard. It's all about the money!!!

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


I am speechless at the ignorance in your posts. Please don't take it as an insult, but it sounds like ravings of the culturally brainwashed. Honestly, if the things you are claiming (THC is a poison and all of that) are true, I would love to see some vcwxvwligen-approved sources for that conclusion. And just so you know, I don't give in to the argument that anything external from the body that is free of grade-school-accepted nutrients is somehow automatically a poison.

At any rate, the point of Ron Paul's and just about everyone else's argument is that despite the few negative things that can be scientifically proven to be attributed to the use of cannabis, the good that it can provide + the terror and waste of the drug war = make it legal or at least decriminalized. We aren't worshiping a plant, we are shouting for our freedom and for some common sense to prevail!

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

That's what I'm saying, in order to legalize THC extract the leaf has to be legalized as well.

Are you serious?

Marinol - Schedule 3 drug, Look it up.

Also you might want to try looking up these:

Harry Anslinger
US Patent 6630507
Shafer Report to Nixon (Marijuana - A Signal of Misunderstanding)



[edit on 24-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

Originally posted by obilesk
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

I am speechless at the ignorance in your posts. Please don't take it as an insult, but it sounds like ravings of the culturally brainwashed. Honestly, if the things you are claiming (THC is a poison and all of that) are true, I would love to see some vcwxvwligen-approved sources for that conclusion. And just so you know, I don't give in to the argument that anything external from the body that is free of grade-school-accepted nutrients is somehow automatically a poison.

At any rate, the point of Ron Paul's and just about everyone else's argument is that despite the few negative things that can be scientifically proven to be attributed to the use of cannabis, the good that it can provide + the terror and waste of the drug war = make it legal or at least decriminalized. We aren't worshiping a plant, we are shouting for our freedom and for some common sense to prevail!

Thanks for reverting to personal attacks. Real classy.

Do I believe that drug laws are unfair? Who doesn't? But to then imply that drugs should then be absolutely decriminalized is a bit extreme. Like I said, there are problems at the societal level which are perfectly legal. Those things should be dealt with before finding more things to legalize.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


You are absolutely correct that there are other problems that need to be dealt with. But what could be more easy than legalization? We already have the infrastructure to support it. It would create thousands of jobs, billions of dollars in revenue, and do away with HALF of the prison population. All of this can be done with a simple stroke of a pen. Punishment for a personal choice to consume drugs is horrible. We should take the common sense approach of damage control and education.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

You are absolutely correct that there are other problems that need to be dealt with. But what could be more easy than legalization? We already have the infrastructure to support it. It would create thousands of jobs, billions of dollars in revenue, and do away with HALF of the prison population. All of this can be done with a simple stroke of a pen. Punishment for a personal choice to consume drugs is horrible. We should take the common sense approach of damage control and education.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

Saying that it would be "easy" amounts to encouraging apathy.

Money is not going to magically rain down courtesy of the marijuana gods. The money that people would spend on marijuana has to come from somewhere, and I'm not sure whether it would come from the bailouts. Rich people who smoke are already spending their money on it. If it were legal I'm sure more people would rather grow it than pay $20 for an 1/8 of an ounce, like people do in other countries. The only marijuana that people would actually pay for would be the potent kind, which requires chemicals to grow. Ron Paul himself has suggested that it should not even be taxed.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Saying that it would be "easy" amounts to encouraging apathy.

Money is not going to magically rain down courtesy of the marijuana gods. The money that people would spend on marijuana has to come from somewhere, and I'm not sure whether it would come from the bailouts. Rich people who smoke are already spending their money on it. If it were legal I'm sure more people would rather grow it than pay $20 for an 1/8 of an ounce, like people do in other countries. The only marijuana that people would actually pay for would be the potent kind, which requires chemicals to grow. Ron Paul himself has suggested that it should not even be taxed.

Ron Paul suggests it shouldn't be taxed because he believes in a totally free country. I agree with his statement. However we already enforce "sin" taxes on cigarettes and alcohol so I don't see why we wouldn't do the same for marijuana.

Your assumption that people would rather grow it than buy is purely speculation. Purchasing it seems easier to me than having to grow it and tend to it (regardless of how easy it is to grow). Only the real devoted people will grow their own and even then it would be illegal to distribute. This argument also does not hold water because millions of people smoke it now when its illegal and a large quantity of them prefer buying it over growing it. Make it cheaper to buy than it is currently and you will have the same result.

It seems to me that all the people who are for keeping it illegal don't seem to grasp that millions of people use marijuana every day with little, if any, negative side-effects except for the insane legal repercussions.

Money, my friend, would indeed be immediately noticeable. If legalized all the money that currently is dumped into the black market will automatically be pulled into legitimate businesses. We also do away with the costs of jailing non-violent criminals, and wasted taxpayer money on court cases involving marijuana.

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Saying that it would be "easy" amounts to encouraging apathy.

Money is not going to magically rain down courtesy of the marijuana gods. The money that people would spend on marijuana has to come from somewhere, and I'm not sure whether it would come from the bailouts. Rich people who smoke are already spending their money on it. If it were legal I'm sure more people would rather grow it than pay $20 for an 1/8 of an ounce, like people do in other countries. The only marijuana that people would actually pay for would be the potent kind, which requires chemicals to grow. Ron Paul himself has suggested that it should not even be taxed.

Ron Paul suggests it shouldn't be taxed because he believes in a totally free country. I agree with his statement. However we already enforce "sin" taxes on cigarettes and alcohol so I don't see why we wouldn't do the same for marijuana.

Your assumption that people would rather grow it than buy is purely speculation. Purchasing it seems easier to me than having to grow it and tend to it (regardless of how easy it is to grow). Only the real devoted people will grow their own and even then it would be illegal to distribute. This argument also does not hold water because millions of people smoke it now when its illegal and a large quantity of them prefer buying it over growing it. Make it cheaper to buy than it is currently and you will have the same result.

It seems to me that all the people who are for keeping it illegal don't seem to grasp that millions of people use marijuana every day with little, if any, negative side-effects except for the insane legal repercussions.

Money, my friend, would indeed be immediately noticeable. If legalized all the money that currently is dumped into the black market will automatically be pulled into legitimate businesses. We also do away with the costs of jailing non-violent criminals, and wasted taxpayer money on court cases involving marijuana.

"Free" as in undermining authority. There is a difference between freedom and liberty. With liberty, people don't have to breathe in your second-hand smoke or drink groundwater that has been contaminated with artificial chemicals.

"Sin" taxes are also known as excise taxes, which are not "free." So you disagree with Ron Paul then?

Speculation based on historical evidence. In other countries people grow their own coffee. It's difficult to do in the US because of the climate, but it's not difficult to grow marijuana. How about we just let everybody out of jail, just to see whether they would help improve society or not? After all, to assert that they deserve to be in jail is just speculation!

You can't outlaw distribution, because then someone could be charged with "intent to distribute" just for growing a lot of it in his basement.

People who go to jail for smoking weed aren't engaging in "civil disobedience." Gimme a break.

Drug money is already laundered into "legitimate" businesses, so I'm not sure what that means.


[edit on 24-2-2009 by vcwxvwligen]