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Does the United States Make Anything Anymore?

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posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Is not that America doesn't make anything, but that Americas can not produce enough to compete with our trade partners we consume more than we produce.

Do you have an understanding of economics?



What does this have anything to do with this thread? The thread is about the U.S. not producing much anymore which is utter crap to be honest. Once again the thread is about the U.S. not producing much so the amount we consume compared to what we produce has nothing to do with the argument. We are STILL the leading producer of goods on the planet.

You can try to twist things around to suit your argument but its not logical.




posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Obviously our citizens don't want to do monkey work for the price it deserves, so of course it's going to be outsourced. The differential is a bunch of hungry mouths to feed, an essentially infinite demand on the world's resources, and all without a modicum of productivity offered in exchange. But what this vacuum of wants and needs still lacks is a system to address the alternative path for these individuals. But I'm not even proposing there should be one. You could probably call me an advocate of the opposite.

What has evolved out of this is the development of anti-trust and monopoly laws, the emergence of labor unions, and growing dissent over civil rights. None of this has solved any of the problems. They have provided concessionary resolutions to issues that are still violently opposed by some, and have created situations which are still very much abused by others. You could say there exist numerous selective pressures, that while they may not be perfect, provide essential checks for what would be otherwise the inefficient alternative, or a totally unregulated political system.

This isn't the first time we've experienced this. When this happened in the past, we utilized slavery. It was a tool that was rather simple to operate and infinitely beneficial to the party in control of the contract. Counterparty risk was virtually eliminated with one sweep of the pen into the signing of law. But that just won't sit well with the modern liberal democrats today. So we acknowledge that it's time to address this issue. We must reinvent robotic automation on a large scale. Artificial intelligence through technological means must be developed. But doesn't almost all of literature, whether positive or science fiction (verging on the post-apocalyptic), or historical or political rhetoric, tell us that slavery is inevitably abolished, or that the slaves always seem to emancipate themselves? Wouldn't that be the case once more?

For the last two hundred years the United States has been consumed in developing a powerful nation. It has acquired resources at the expense of others, it has artificially boosted its citizens' well being. But competition is slowly creeping up. In a real capitalist world economy, wealth follows productivity. It's the most equitable way of distributing resources to as many people as the system can provide for. It's funny how Americans today are so enjoined in the ideas of Adam Smith, one of the founders of economics, known then as the study of political economy. But they've completely missed the point. They've taken the concept too far and produced a self-valuated ideology, totally incomprehensible to the rest of the world. You can't build nations and feed entities outside its boundaries, whether they are physically defined or incorporeal in nature. There is a strict limit imposed, after which nation-building and the primary feeding of a nation's citizens becomes absolutely inefficient. Very quickly after this point, the nation loses purpose and collapses within itself, producing various other, totally different nations as a result. Examine itself the separation of the United States from Great Britain. It just doesn't work. If goals and roles aren't defined by their implicit value, then a decision built upon such strategies becomes irrelevant.

This isn't a question of whether the United States can make anything valuable any longer, it's a question of its willingness to adapt, to concede to global market forces, and to abandon the bigotry associated with its perpetually, mostly nationally inspired nepotism, exemplified in the labor market, and working at the expense of world prosperity. It's becoming the Great Britain that it had once seceded from. Who are the new Americans?

[edit on 22-2-2009 by cognoscente]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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Weapons,weapon systems, military gear. We are still pretty good at building weapons of war and mass crowd control.War fighting tools.

Has anyone else noticed that most of the other countries of the world wear our Kevlar helmets.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by calcoastseeker]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by whoshotJR
 



No no I agree with you about our production here in the US being high volume in many areas.

But Time magazine, I really do not think much of that production.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by calcoastseeker
 


If all fails, we still have the most advanced weapons technology on the planet. But weapons can't achieve anything without energy, whether thermodynamic or political. If another entity has energy, production potential, and a political will, we will quickly be outpaced and eliminated. If for some reason, there is total systemic collapse, weapons knowledge and technology is a great commodity to have, probably the best there is. If nothing changes, it's still useful, but I don't think it's enough to feed the nation. Neither is the production of cleverly repackaged financial securities, and the possession of vast amounts of fiscal capital independently self sustaining. None of those products are relevant when you're living in a world of negative wealth. You just have to hope your trading partners doesn't realize it.

Actually, that's not entirely true if you consider the tax base as it's own long-term fiscal capital. I mean, the aggregate demand for the bare sustenance of people, all things considered equal, is essentially infinite. So if you can bank on people being hungry, which is probably a statistically perfect model, then you technically have fiscal capital. But that's pretty sad if you ask me.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by cognoscente]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
someone mentioned Intel chips
this is incorrect

I met with many product managers at Intel
they are not made in the US

it's almost all made in asia and they are planning to move all engineering to Asia as well


For all of you that don't know, "Modern Academia" is someone who harbors a clearly verifiable Anti-American predilection in ALL of his threads that I have read and participated in.

I must admit though, I find a small joy in entering his consistently sniping threads and presenting incontrovertible evidence that shatter his poorly thought premises with facts, logic and reason.

So folks, have a look down below if you so wish.

Hey Modern Academia...once again...CHECKMATE~~ LOL~ U make it 2 easy

"A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing'~~~ Oscar Wilde

New Intel Plant in Arizona
www.youtube.com...


Intel will spend US$7 billion to upgrade its manufacturing in the U.S. -- a move that will retain or create about 7,000 jobs. 11 Feb 2009

www.mis-asia.com...$7-billion-made-in-the-usa-investment


Posted on ZDNet News: Feb 11, 2009 4:41:04 AM Intel has pledged to suit up its manufacturing facilities in the United States to support 32-nanometer processing, but it is not clear if the chipmaker has plans to invest in similar capabilities in Asia.

news.zdnet.com...



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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There are some serious Guitars made in the USA, I know I own 'em. & yes all the major players in the Luthier game has axes made overseas. & in many instances they are the same or even better quality than the "Uber" priced instruments whored out as made in the USA, of said companies. We also make some really great Frying Pans "Sautee' Pan" & some really great Food.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
someone mentioned Intel chips
this is incorrect

I met with many product managers at Intel
they are not made in the US


I think they were referring to CPU Chip designs and engineering which we are #1 at the moment also we still do design and engineer the best GPU, video graphics cards in the world Nvidia & ATI but of course the manufacturing goes over seas:bnghd:



[edit on 22-2-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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We make balloons!


The balloon I bought my wife on V-day was made in the USA!



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by Walkswithfish
reply to post by marg6043
 


What has done the most damage to US auto makers is the Unions.

Pensions and high wages created bymarg6043 labor unions made it progressively impossible for US auto makers to remain competitive with foreign auto makers.

Have any idea how many retired auto workers draw full pensions?

The average wage for a seasoned union auto worker is?

No wonder so much of what is in US cars is outsourced technology.

No surprise that US manufacturing has been on the decline since before this economic crisis.




I'm getting real tired of unions taking all the blame for the auto industry! This is simply propaganda and anyone that supports it is only towing the line. American auto manufacturers have had foreign competitors for many years. And for many years The Big 3 have dominated the auto industry, 100% unionized, despite any competition. Only recently has the title of #1 been held by a non American car company. Toyota became the first foreign maker to hold this title when it slightly outsold GM in 2007. What is not so known, or talked about, is the massive recalls that followed. Toyota recalled something like 950,000 trucks for, I believe, a safety issue? This is from memory, feel free to correct any errs.

Unions are nothing new to the auto industry in the US. While I agree there are abuses in the modern form, abuses to the workers is why the whole union concept was born. What is new is letting non union, foreign auto makers, build and import cars in the US? Japanese cars are cheap here due to our own import policy working against us? Nobody buys American cars abroad due to tariffs making them overpriced. Japans import policy incourages their citizens to buy Toyotas! Makes a lot of sense, right? Unfortunately, Americas import policy incourages its citizens to buy Toyotas too? And Hondas, Hyundais, Kias, etc... How can union companies compete with this? This is just another example of gross inequality in Americas so called " free market" system! This country has been infiltrated folks, these things are no accident!

The working/middle class sector in the US has had to endure, literally, stagnant wages for many, many years. While executive salaries have multiplied significantly, as well as the cost of living, reductions are the only fluctuations in pay seen by the blue collar worker. For skilled tradesman, more hours or multiple jobs are their only methods to increase income?

This prejudice is seen again in the equally lopsided taxation. Most all of it the burden of middle income workers and small businesses. This abusive system of legalized extortion applies only to the small, while mega corporations receive near total immunity. This, along with many other things, has created a devastating environment for hard working Americans and plays an enormous role in our current economic situation.

Unions are conceptually a protective idea to help level the playing field for the common man. Helping the little guy is a rare commodity. It should be protected and encouraged, not persicuted? Ask yourself who would benefit the most if unions were abolished? The Mega Corps. running this country would like nothing more than to see unions go. Don't buy into their trickery.

Understand which side you belong on before it's too late! It makes no sense to blame ourselves for the problems we have. Just think things through for yourself, rather than believe everything you hear. Especially from the mainstream media! Respected journalism can no longer be found on Network TV. Understand that things have changed drastically. The segregation and division of the people was caused by the same forces causing this. The only way they can control the masses is to split us up and provoke us against each other. This must stop now!

Peace!



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 04:05 AM
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My town is the only place in the world where Rice Crispies Treats are manufactured. Big deal though, all our other major industry is gone! 3 major plants that made cotton products and denim materials, lifetime jobs for most that worked there, all gone. Carpet mills, gone. All sold out and went to mexico.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by yellowcard
What are you guys talking about? Again, we are the largest manufacturer of goods on the planet. What about Cummings, Caterpillar, Boeing, Chicago Bridge and Iron, American Steel, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Delphi, General Electric...yeah, American doesn't make anything


I want us to make more, import less, and cut our debts, but let's not jump the gun...the U.S. is the largest manufacturing country in the world, China is second (though close).

[edit on 21-2-2009 by yellowcard]


Outside of weapons none of these are even in the ball park - Toyota three times larger than its nearest competitor - even at the peak of the bubble it was able to buy all of its top ten competitors with spare cash ------

The US steel making sector has been utterly destroyed by the rise of japan, china and india.

Heavy machinery is almost the sole domain of Germany and Japan.

You produce a lot for yourselves, export almost nothing (weapons) and have a balance of trade deficit that has turned you into the basket case you are - dems da facts bud.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by space cadet
My town is the only place in the world where Rice Crispies Treats are manufactured. Big deal though, all our other major industry is gone! 3 major plants that made cotton products and denim materials, lifetime jobs for most that worked there, all gone. Carpet mills, gone. All sold out and went to mexico.


false, rice crispies are known by many many other names such as rice bubbles - these are manufactured locally in most countries the same as coke and other products.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by TooManyHumans
 


deny Ignorance don't spread it

Obviously another one that thanks to the propaganda is reading is been misguided as the realities of the US downfall from a nation of number one exporter to a nation of the biggest importers.

But you know what, you are a prime example of why our nation's citizens sit idle dreaming that America is still the economic superpower that once it was.

Get your facts straight before tring to post with not links to as what you are talking about.

2008 data


The easiest way to measure which countries export the most is simply to look at the total value of their combined exports. The total value of all exports in the world in 2008 was roughly $16.34 trillion US Dollars (USD), which is essentially equal to the combined imports of $16.21 trillion USD. Of this,

Germany exports the most, with a combined export value of roughly $1.53 trillion USD.

China comes next, with a combined export value of $1.465 trillion USD.

The United States comes in third, exporting $1.377 trillion USD.

These top three countries export $4.372 trillion USD worth of goods, or a bit more than a quarter of the world’s entire export value.


America is the BIGEEST IMPORTER, in the world that means that the money we spend goes mostly to the countries we have trade with


The main reason we have a trade deficit.


These numbers are especially interesting when compared to the total value of these nations’ imports.

The United States is the largest importer in terms of value, with total imports of around $2.19 trillion USD.

Germany follows, with imports of $1.202 trillion USD.

And China comes in third,

with imports worth $1.156 trillion USD. This means these three countries import roughly $4.548 trillion USD worth of goods, just about equal to their total exports, but with a disproportionate amount carried by the United States.
.

www.wisegeek.com...

Top Ten Countries with which the U.S. has a Trade Deficit
For the month of December 2008



China -19,879.66 -266,332.71
Japan -5,271.74 -72,669.05
Mexico -4,079.76 -64,376.26
Federal Republic of German -3,245.38 -42,820.59
Canada -2,786.72 -74,640.91
Ireland -2,467.84 -22,914.91
Italy -1,515.45 -20,664.80
Korea, South -1,420.27 -13,268.66
Saudi Arabia -1,406.23 -42,308.21
Taiwan -1,254.97 -11,047.65


www.census.gov...

Please do not use the GDP to justified the claim because US GDP is most unreliable way to show the nations eocnomical health.

Even his creator told very clear that GDP was never to be used as the sole indicator of the economic health of a nation as its numbers and data can be manipulated to fix agendas.


The actual nations that make up the highest GDP list are probably not surprising, and their combined GDP is equal to roughly half of the world’s total economy. Generally speaking, the countries that produce the most are going to be ones that spend the most. This is more or less the case for individuals as well. A nation’s external debt can include any number of factors, including loans, trade deficits, budget deficits, and the sum of its citizens’ outstanding consumer debt and other factors. This is similar to how an individual’s debt can include business loans, mortgages, credit card debt or student loans.


www.creditloan.com...

Americas national deficit tells the story of how America economic health is doing.

The GDP doesn't discriminate about what type of production is included in the overall economical health of the nation and were is falls.

That includes, production of goods and also production of DEBT.

Everything is included in the figures.


America has become more debt-dependent - - than ever before

with total debt of $53 trillion, or $175,154 per man, woman and child


mwhodges.home.att.net...

Do the math, GDP vs external debt and national deficit.



[edit on 23-2-2009 by marg6043]

[edit on 23-2-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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has anyone said this yet!? we print money! or do we offshore/outsource that now too?

one other interesting i don't see anyone having mentioned is that i've heard that they don't include WalMart in the GDP numbers. this makes a person think. and when this person starts thinking it makes sense because after all the goods they sell are not domestic. however does that apply to others who outsource as well? if so the numbers could be far, far worse. as should be obvious by now, i am no genius when it comes to all this because it doesn't make logical sense to me most days, but i do have a lot of questions.

another question is imagine the tax base in this country...why doesn't anyone ever speak of how much that's almost assuredly gone down the tubes along with all the jobs that floated away? isn't basic economics and accounting that which comes in and that which goes out?

[edit on 23-2-2009 by ~Lucidity]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


The confusion as to the American economic health has been manipulated for years with the us of GDP figures as the sole indicator.

But the government makes every effort to give away figures and throw them out there for people to do the math.

But most regular Americans do not do the math, they just absorber the figures and think happy thoughts all day long.

Everything is peachy as long as the government tells you so



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


exactly. two cases in point, the unemployment and housing BS fed to us by the last administration and their puppet media. everything's peachy! funny how the truth started coming out and sinking in "all of a sudden" when they were on their way out and didn't give two fiddlesticks anymore because they need the truth was coming. almost criminal. certainly unconscionable.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 10:20 AM
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The truth of about the GDP and GNP,


D. Weaknesses of GDP as a Normative Measure

Economists will be quick to point out that GDP doesn’t pretend to be any more than it is – a simple measure of production, but over time the idea has evolved that a growing GDP means a stronger economy and societal improvement.

Hans Messinger, Director, Industry Measures and Analysis Division, Statistics Canada(8)

Most economists – from Simon Kuznets, creator of the SNA, to U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan – caution against using GDP as a measure of social welfare. According to Greenspan, the GDP “is still the best measure of market value of goods and services, (though) it is not necessarily a measure of welfare or even a significant measure of standards of living.”(9) Kuznets told the U.S. Congress in 1934 that “Goals for more growth should specify more growth of what and for what.”(10)

These cautions have largely gone unheeded. In 1972, William Nordhaus and James Tobin remarked that: “GNP is not a measure of welfare. Maximization of GNP is not a proper objective of policy. Economists all know that, and yet their everyday use of GNP as the standard measure of economic performance apparently conveys the impression that they are evangelistic worshippers of GNP.”(11)

More than 400 U.S. economists, including Nobel Laureate Professor Herbert Simon and Professor Robert Eisner, a former president of the American Economics Association, have gone on record saying that GDP ignores social and environmental costs and is thus “inadequate and misleading as a measure of true prosperity.”(12)


dsp-psd.tpsgc.gc.ca...

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by audas

The US steel making sector has been utterly destroyed by the rise of japan, china and india.

Heavy machinery is almost the sole domain of Germany and Japan.

You produce a lot for yourselves, export almost nothing (weapons) and have a balance of trade deficit that has turned you into the basket case you are - dems da facts bud.


That's true we produce a lot for ourselves and export a lot of raw material that in turn gets turned into durable goods over seas and sold back to us at a higher rate that needs to stop. Japanese steel
Tell me where exactly are they getting the ore? They have no natural resources to speak of and they are taking a beating because EXPORTS are way down.

We shot ourselves in the foot because American big business made a decision many decades ago to go with cheap foreign steel manufacturers instead of suppliers here in the states which now provide us with huge amounts and started them down the road as large global producers of steal.

So when other countries started growing and needed large amounts of steel where did they go? Yup to the foreign steal producers.

As far as Toyota again we shot ourselves in the foot ask everyone who is complaining about the US loosing manufacturing jobs, What kind of car do they drive? Or what make of TV do they watch?

We want the cheapest highest quality products but it seems we don't want to work in low paying factories to make them so we buy foreign made products at very low prices then complain because we cannot find good paying jobs.

So then we start to scream buy American and there is hardly anything worth buying that is America made.

We have given so much business to these foreign companies for so long and billions worth of business they went from a low cost lower quality version of the original to the premier producers of those products






[edit on 23-2-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 12:08 PM
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I have a lightbulb case in my desk here that says...



Sam Walton believed in the ability of American workers to produce the finest products in the world.

That's why we're searching teh USA to create something special. Innovative products, made to our own higher standards, that we are proud to call Sam's American Choice(tm). We believe these products, available only from Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart Supercenters, offer better value than the leading national brands at the always low Wal-Mart prices. We think you'll agree, or we'll refund your money, no questions asked! "Better products at the always low Wal-Mart prices..."

Always, We guarentee it.
(signed) Sam Walton


*sigh* Wish that had a date stamp on it. Rest in peace Sam.

I don't mind if things are produced overseas when our unemployment rate is going down but otherwise it looks like economic suicide. We're climbing, at 7.6 presently: www.miseryindex.us...

[edit on 23-2-2009 by saint4God]



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