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If the US Splits...

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posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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I've been watching the boards and the news for a few weeks now about the states writing up new legislature, some Russian doctor saying he thinks the US will split into different regions, etc. etc.

Well, today I saw the Texas NG is on alert and the governor is getting ready to take action in the Southern part of Texas due to the violence from Mexican drug cartels and the "oh so surprising" lack of a response from Washington.

My question is - what would you do if the US were to split into different regions/states - etc?

How would that affect the world? What would be be like for us (Americans).

I currently serve in the US Army, but my ultimate loyalty lies w/ my family in Texas. I'm not saying anything direct here, but the decision wouldn't be a hard one to make if the time came.......

What would you do?




posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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I pretty much like the idea of the United States based on the founding documents I am aware of including the Dec. of Independance, The Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I've lived in 5 states and driven through 40 or so. We are not like the EU so their possible split up is not comparable to the USA. I don't see us splitting up like that. Maybe there will be zones of martial law and freedom for awhile until things bottom out and begin to recover.

Everybody still has to lose everything. Once they have nothing small things mean something again.

The war south of the border is a concern and the UN will probably end up there.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 


I would make my stand at the proverbial Alamo.

Pretty much I agree with Willaim B. Travis's sentiment here:


"Take care of my little boy. If the country should be saved, I may make him a splendid fortune; but if the country should be lost, and I should perish, he will have nothing but the proud recollection that he is the son of a man who died for his country."



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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This is an excellent question and I hope that every American who reads this thread gives it some thought.

The real issue is, do you consider yourself an American first and foremost? Or, do you consider yourself to be a northerner, southerner, westerner, or something else?

If you are an American first and foremost then you will stand with the US, the Union, the Constitution, and the President.

If you are something else first, then you will be part of the rift. You will separate yourself from the rest of the country, and/or join with those who are also something else.

This is how it went during the Civil War. People actually moved themselves and their families north or south of the Mason Dixon Line, based on their political allignment. Plus there were many thousands of northerners who fought for the South and vice versa.

I hope that we don't see the country split up. If we do, a Civil War is a certainty. I worry a bit about it, since I live in Georgia and this place would be ground zero if a new Civil War broke out. Many would not survive long enough to pack their bags.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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i do not see a possible State vs State, nor region VS region Civil War scenario. It is not so cut and dry. i know that definitely, that the people who are FOR the Constitution of The United States of America, will not be FOR the POTUS. The whole idea of the "new Civil War" is that the POTUS and the whole of Federal Govn't are not representing the Constitution. It will no longer be Federal Government representing the USA.

The majority of people see themselves as Americans first and foremost. The first Civil War was mainly trying to keep the Union intact. The Second Civil War will likely be trying to keep the Constitution intact.

i will not pretend to know how it'll go down, but rest assured, the Federal Govn't will not be the side representing the Constitution. That Honor is for those who are defending themselves, their families, and their neighbors FROM the Federal Govn't. We started as a Nation of STATES which are United. Its about time we get back to that.

Love and Peace



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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Well on the subject of the first Civil War. The main issue that kicked it off was State's rights as laid out by the 9th and 10th Amendment. Well, the Sate's rights advocates lost.

I think that the next Civil War will be over the issue of Individual Rights, particularly those rights laid out by the rest of the Bill of Rights.

I agree that the rights of Individuals have been greatly reduced in recent years by Judicial Fiat. I don't think that the Federal Government in its current incarnation will be our friend and ally. That is true.

However, if and when the SHTF, most of the current crop of scoundrels will most likely be lynched by their own constituents. I expect that things will move very quickly after the tipping point is reached.

There will be a period of severe chaos that will last weeks at least. This is the time period that people need to prepare themselves for and to plan an escape route. This time period will probably be very much like the French Revolution. That is a time of every man for himself.

Following that, the public will rally. They will elect new leadership. It is at this point that the US Military will choose a side. It is at this point that the people who are first and foremost Americans will need to step up.

In my part of the country, I am afraid that we have a lot (maybe a majority) of people who are something else. I don't plan to be here at that point.

I don't claim to be an expert on any of this either. I don't think that there are any real experts. Ayn Rand maybe got some of it right. Maybe. I am going on my own gut on this one.

I don't think that we are all that close to the tipping point. Not yet. If the DOW goes to 2000 or less, and the number of layoffs tripled, and the number of foreclosures also tripled. Then I would say, pack your bags, load your weapons, and execute your escape plan.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 12:57 AM
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i agree with how you propose it will go down, and there will be a every man for himself scenario, but how do you think that we will transition out of that phase?

i don't see how it could happen. there will be much misguided anger by the populace, placed upon state legislatures and that ilk, while focusing on the Federal as the "saviors". i see this happening now, with the states calling for soverignty, and then a nationwide collapse. meanwhile MSM makes it out to be the States faults, uninformed joe will call for stronger Federal Govn't, and i truly believe uninformed joe will still be around at this point, next thing you know, BAM, States GOvn't have suddenly been "turned out" and we become a single state nation.

This is my greatest fear, not the SHTF, i'm prepared for that, what i'm not prepared for is the sheeple walking us all into a deathtrap. if that happens, im moving to the wilds of the Yukon/Alaska. American be damned.

Love and Peace



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:33 AM
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Well, there is a danger of some major catastrophe being used as an excuse for Marshal Law being declared, and the various State and Local governments being disolved. That may happen.

However, any government even a military one, needs to have a localized structure in order to govern or even just to keep the peace.

I think that the cities, the big ones, will be a lost cause. The majority of people will flee and become refugees. Those who don't will riot, then they will loot, then they will notice that everyone with any sense has left. Then they will fight amongst themselves and establish a local warlord. Most of those who stayed behind will be dead in a pretty short time.

In the less densely populated areas, things will be a bit calmer. There may be some localized rioting or looting, but not the complete chaos of the cities. If localized control is lost, eventually people of like minds will band together. They will establish their own local order and eventually seek out others of like mind. These groups will coaless into those who believe in the Constitution and the rule of law and those who don't.

The lines will be drawn and there will be a period of relative calm in which these groups draw together. What is interesting is how the large cities where the chaos will be, are mostly Liberal and the rural areas tend to be very Conservative. In the rural areas law and order are most likely to prevail.

Eventually, the different sides (there may be more than two) will either reconcile and form alliances or they will attempt to gain the upper hand over their neighbors. This will be a period of local skirmishes depending on the population densities.

At this point the Military will probably try to step in and establish control. In some areas the Military may never have lost control.

The rest will depend upon what the Military chooses to do. If they establish order, support local elections, and try to restore the Union. Then the violence might end rather quickly. If they become a larger body of warlords, then the war might get really bloody at this point. This is the point again when people will need to step up and remind the Military leadership who and what they are sworn to defend.

If a Military leader tries to promote himself as the supreme leader and then tries to rule by force. The Military units will likely split and then a long and bloody Civil War will take place with modern weaponry. That will be very very bloody.

I don't know what might happen after that. This is where my speculation ends. Like I said, this is mostly gut feelings.

It does seem to indicate though that the farther you are from one of the major cities, the better off you are likely to be. So, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho. These may be good spots. I have relatives in Wyoming so that is most likely where I will be.

The refugee populations from the major cities could be problematic. It might be best to avoid them if you can.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by M157yD4wn
 


Keeping the union in their place and keeping the constitution in tact to me that is about same thing. The union stepping on rites didn’t help the situation before the Civil War. I can see parallels with the Union of old and the Feds of new. All searching for ultimate power.

Where ever I would have to sign up to be against the tyrants or feds is where I would be.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:58 AM
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I think the people of the the USA need to grow up! Haven't you learnt anything from the first Civil War? After 200 years you are ALL brothers and sisters. Would you pick up a gun and shoot your brother, your mother your sister? It is obviously time for diplomacy. Many Americans dis Muslims for their barbaric laws and the way they treat one another. I agree, and that is why I would hate to see Americans killing Americans. It is no better than the barbaric events in the Middle East.

Learn from you mistakes America. Violence begets violence and nothing is gained from it.

The USA has the opportunity to lead the world as one of the great nations on earth, but right now you are all behaving like school children.

Calm down, take a deep breath and ask "What would the wise mind do?"




posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by WatchNLearn
 


Unfortunately America is in the middle of what happens to all great republics, they fall because of greed. While I agree a Civil War would be bad but to support the Constitution I would go with it. So any opportunity to lead the world is over with. We have no choice but to move aside and watch the next world power rule. My opinions only of course.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:06 AM
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ok, i totally was not thinking about what those of us with some common sense and preparedness would do after "The Great Escape" This seems very viable.

When that starts to happen though, won't there be different "factions" from state to state? A tri state coalition at best? how would any full scale civil war be winnable when the battlefield isn't two or three spots, but nationwide, and the different "factions" would be hard pressed to support each other? It would have to be won state by state IMO, and that could be very long and drawn out process.

ANT, i agree with you. i'll be right there signing up with you.

love and peace



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by M157yD4wn
 


Yeah, it would take complete cooperation of separate states or else it would end before it started. I wouldn’t dare say that A new Civil War would turn out the way we would want it to. It would be a battle of long odds and not a battle to fight unless it was the only way. Hopefully we are all wrong about the state of the nation and a turn around happens and all these conversations were just needed venting sessions.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:29 AM
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I agree that cooler heads should prevail. Of course I would never shoot any of my family, friends, or neighbors, if I had a choice.

Unfortunately, I live in an area where people will kill over 20 dollars. I kid you not. If and when the SHTF, these are the people that I would need to defend my family against.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:31 AM
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If the proverbial crap hits the fan and the US splits I have three choices. Try to make it out into the woods and live off the land for as long as possible. Fly back to Italy or get some guns and hold my ground. Personally the latter should be my last option



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by M157yD4wn
 


It will all depend upon which way the military goes. If the military chooses to support the Constitution and to uphold their oath, then order will be restored pretty quick IMO. If they don't and the states are left to fend for themselves with only their own militia and maybe National Guard units, then it will be very long and drawn out. It will be a state by state battle.

Either way, the big fight will be when they try to reclaim the cities.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by nastalgik
 


I agree that making a last stand of sorts is not the prefered option. My prefered option is to see it coming close to the tipping point and packing the bags and getting to my designated safe area. That's a 3 day drive for me.

I am affraid though that if a major power like the US comes apart, the power vacuum that is left will be felt all around the world. Many of our allies and their governments will probably also collapse. Then there will be the oportunistic nations, like Russia and China, who will invade and seek to gain ground while the US is out of the way.

Italy, does not have a long standing history of stable government. Lucky for them that they are not too close to Russia. Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic are likely to see some payback.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:45 AM
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It makes me sick to think that we are spending trillions of dollars to send our military men and women to fight all of those dangerous terrorists over in the middle east who supposedly pose so much of a threat to U.S. security, and yet we have a raging drug war and armed foreign nationals murdering hundreds of people on our wide open southern border and it gets all but ignored.


Our government officials truly are beyond incompetant. They have no interest in protecting our citizens or our sovereignty as a nation. Mexico has been an open sore of corruption for over two decades now and not one administration has done a thing to address it. Not one.


Texans, you are on your own I guess. Good luck and God speed. Let's hurry up and get those 20,000 new troops over to Afghanistan before the Taliban steals all of our poppy crops



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:51 AM
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I am not a doom and gloomer. I am actually an optimistic person. I do find it interesting though that a year ago, the idea of economic collapse was almost unthinkable. Well we are thinking it now.

What was the news today? BofA and Citibank may both go bankrupt within 60 days. Chuck Shumer actually mentioned the idea that the government may need to nationalize the banks. For a short time of course.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:56 AM
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the OP asked, what would I do..

Well, likely, I would be out of luck, because I currently live south of the Mexico/Arizona border. The gun laws here as of yet keep me pretty safe (I STILL HAVE MINE).

What would it mean for America? I'm afraid that it would open the door for other countries to attack us without pause. I see a split as a bad thing for the US.. it is needed (to defy the FED, but it will be bad either way).




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