Al-Qaeda founder launches fierce attack on Osama bin Laden

Al-Qaeda founder launches fierce attack on Osama bin Laden

www. telegraph.co.uk

Today, however, he believes the murder of innocent people is both contrary to Islam and a strategic error. "Every drop of blood that was shed or is being shed in Afghanistan and Iraq is the responsibility of bin Laden and Zawahiri and their followers," writes Dr Fadl.

The terrorist attacks on September 11 were both immoral and counterproductive, he writes. "Ramming America has become the shortest road to fame and leadership among the Arabs and Muslims. But what good is it if you destroy one of your enemy's buildings, and he destroys one of your countries? What good is it if you kill one of his people, and he kills a thousand of yours?" asks Dr Fadl. "That, in short, is my evaluation of 9/11."

He is equally unsparing about Muslims who move to the West and then take up terrorism. "If they gave you permission to enter their homes and live with them, and if they gave you security for yourself and your money, and if they gave you the opportunity to work or study, or they granted you political asylum," writes Dr Fadl, then it is "not honourable" to "betray them, through killing and destruction".

(visit the link for the full news article)

Makes you wonder what they did to this guy over there in that Egyptian prison. Clearly they did something that was very remarkable to change a person from a Alqaeda jihadist into someone who speaks out against them in such a way. Don't know if it was drugs and shock treatment with repeated mind trance videos saying Al QQaeda is bad or what.

www. telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Wow, that's an interesting turn of events. You know you've messed up when one of the founders of your movement publicly shames you for your actions. It's nice to know that he has changed his tune. Perhaps he has just had enough time to think about it and realized that killing innocent people doesn't really do much to advance your cause.

Terrorist movements across the world have a history of alienating their popular support by waging campaigns of indiscriminate murder. This process of disintegration often begins with a senior leader publicly denouncing his old colleagues. Dr Fadl's missives may show that al-Qaeda has entered this vital stage.

So this may be the beginning of the end for al-Qaeda? Great news for everybody except those who are in al-Qaeda.

Edit: Added missing word

[edit on 20-2-2009 by Jenna]

It sounds to me he has simply aged, seen a lot of history go by and from that has drawn lessons. It shows the changes in perspective when one has lived and can view the world with a degree of WISDOM.

Common sense runs in all of us, it just takes enlightenment and logical assessment for most of us to see the same truths.

I still have a problem with believing in a group of dedicated fundamentalist religious warriors who name their group after an arabic euphamism for the toilet. It sounds like another bad FBI joke to me. Don't know about you but I find that really hard to take seriously. To my mind these guys are nothing more than intelligence community street theater.

Originally posted by JBA2848


Makes you wonder what they did to this guy over there in that Egyptian prison. Clearly they did something that was very remarkable to change a person from a Alqaeda jihadist into someone who speaks out against them in such a way. Don't know if it was drugs and shock treatment with repeated mind trance videos saying Al QQaeda is bad or what.

www. telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Wow, so someone has to be tortured and given shock treatment in order to change right?
Then that means all the people that i know who have changed for the better were tortured and shocked. Thats why they said they were treated well in prison and given counselors.

What a stupid presumption of yours to say if you change you must have been "forced" to change.
This guy has simply aged and realized the TRUTH, the muslims are only damaging themselves by supporting these extremists.

He's been stockholmed. Not that I think it's a bad thing that he's saying these things. But this is a very odd reversal.

Radically Extreme Terrorist #1: You think he could have told us this ten years ago? I had a job lined up and everything!

Radically Extreme Terrorist #2: Dude, want a Pepsi?

Radically Extreme Terrorist #1: I kill you.

Which Osama Bin Laden? The one with the fat nose, or the one with the skinny nose?

Which Osama Bin Laden? The one who wears jewelry, or the one who (correctly) believes that Islam prohibits jewelry and will not wear it?

Which of those Osama Bin Ladens is the being attacked?

(BTW, in case anyone DOESN'T know, the CIA was the "founder" of Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan during the Russian occupation. Look it up.)

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Which Osama Bin Laden? The one with the fat nose, or the one with the skinny nose?

Which Osama Bin Laden? The one who wears jewelry, or the one who (correctly) believes that Islam prohibits jewelry and will not wear it?

Which of those Osama Bin Ladens is the being attacked?

(BTW, in case anyone DOESN'T know, the CIA was the "founder" of Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan during the Russian occupation. Look it up.)

The CIA did not *create* al qaeda. they funded them to stop the russians.

Don't people believe that Al-Qaeda was created by the CIA? I read it in the ATS book by Jim Marrs but have been reading about other things lately to look into it and form my own opinion.

If it was however, then this attack on Osama has been staged. And if it has been staged, to what purpose? To get the publics attention?

Any Ideas, or am I going off the rails here?!

Back in the days when the USSR invaded Afghanistan, the CIA covertly funded, trained, and equipped a insurgency over there in the effort to cripple the USSR financially.

A long drawn out occupation of a country is expensive and costly.

We funded the mujahideen,

At present the term "mujahideen" is sometimes used to describe insurgents, including the Taliban/Al Qaeda, fighting NATO troops and the security forces of the US-backed government of Hamid Karzai and allied militias in Afghanistan, although most of the Mujahideen leaders who fought the Soviet Union later fought against the Taliban.

Osama is either dead or living a nice life in pakistan,supposedly in june/july 2001 he was spotted by a french intelligence agent at a USA military base in saudi getting treatment,he has hepatitis and needed a dialysis to be changed regulary,which is quite hard if your living in caves.I dont know how the CIA thought they were going to get away with his first video..they must really think people are stupid.Picture on the left is *osama* in his first video released Oh yes looks identical...




Supposedly he was a CIA asset known as Tim Osman and visited America..although apart froma few sources i dont think there is much evidence to support that,wouldnt be too far fetched considering his family is uber rich though.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by Solomons]

Hmm sentimental...

I'm dubious. But at least it's positive.

I'm amazed that some of you people even believe any of these Al-CIA-Duh press releases anymore. What a joke.

To those that don't understand whyI mae the assumption that he was tortured to make hime change. Never read the whole article.

The criticisms have emerged from Dr Fadl's cell in Tora prison in southern Cairo, where a sand-coloured perimeter wall is lined with watchtowers, each holding a sentry wielding a Kalashnikov assault rifle. Torture inside Egyptian jails is "widespread and systematic", according to Amnesty International.

Zawahiri has alleged that his former comrade was tortured into recanting. But the al-Qaeda leader still felt the need to compose a detailed, 200-page rebuttal of his antagonist.

So my assumption came from reading the article and wondering if the same happened to him.
And for the assumption of shock treatment they have been known for this treatment of prisoners.Britons recount four years of 'torture' in Egyptian jail

Mr Nawaz, a student on a year abroad as part of his degree from the University of London, said he was subjected to sleep deprivation, threatened with death and forced to listen while Mr Pankhurst was tortured with electric prods. He said the three men were in the hands of the secret police.

"As soon as we entered, they blindfolded us and tied our hands behind our backs not even with handcuffs, but with torn pieces of rags, treating us like cattle. They forced us to sit on the floor for four continuous days, prohibiting us from sleeping and if any one of us fell asleep they would be beaten and forced to wake up again. On the second day, we began to hear the sounds of electricity and the screams of men crying and screaming for mercy from people who have none.

"And they began to electrocute people to such an extent that really you would wish you were dead; you would wish you were dead rather than live through that experience. They took me and threatened me with the same treatment and made me listen personally to Mr Pankhurst being tortured."

Originally posted by JBA2848


Makes you wonder what they did to this guy over there in that Egyptian prison. Clearly they did something that was very remarkable to change a person from a Alqaeda jihadist into someone who speaks out against them in such a way. Don't know if it was drugs and shock treatment with repeated mind trance videos saying Al QQaeda is bad or what.

www. telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

So, basically someone has to be drugged to change their mind? Uhm...what? Maybe he matured, or saw some morality in his enemy.

Originally posted by Swatman
The CIA did not *create* al qaeda. they funded them to stop the russians.

Some people are simply hopeless, and believe that ties remain because they have no idea how the CIA operates.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by yellowcard]

reply to post by Jenna


Looks like the Al Qaida types are returning to the Islamic faith. These nutters are the equivalent of all fanatics whether they be Christian or Jewish.

No Muslims I know accepts9/11 or killing innocent people but lots of bigots are prepared to condemn all on association. These same folk also wonder why normal Muslims don't come out in condemnation of Al Qaida violence; well, most of us are preoccupied and horrified with what is going on in Palestine and Iraq.

As for this chap, I agree something did happen to him in prison. Either he is bargaining for his freedom or he has been subjected to some kind of cognitive overhaul. This has been done for decades to 'turn' foreign spies, activists and government officials. Tactics used often include a little torture, psychological terror, blackmail, Pavlovian therapy, fair treatment and a lot of ideological discussions. The combination of all these methods will turn most people that is why cults use them.

reply to post by masonwatcher


I think it's pretty much only the extremists that think 9/11 and/or killing innocent people is a good idea. And you are right. A fanatic is a fanatic regardless of what flavor religion they prefer. Personally I think the fanatics are all crazy, they just have achieved different levels of craziness.

I'm not sure what could have happened for him to do a complete 180 but whatever it was seems to have worked. I'd like to think he just had a lot of time to think and realized the error of his ways, but that's probably overly-optimistic.


Edit: spelling

[edit on 21-2-2009 by Jenna]