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I lost it at work today.

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posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:05 PM
reply to post by David9176

Many individuals in our country have the welfare mentality WIFM and could care less about the other guy paying for whatever thru taxes.
A Nation that the government wants to have control of in every aspect of your life. With this money comes a price and that price my friends is our Freedom.

Make no mistake if people do not protest in peaceful manners about this recent outragous stimulus package there will be more stimulus packages behind it 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

David here is a thought this recent stimulus package with every give away program in this package get accountability of every penny and how it is spent and it will drive them nuts. This will take an orgastrated effort and alot of digging by Americans but We The People will be the thorn in their side.

If they are taking our money and our childrens future then We The People
have the right to see the books on every business, profit or nonprofit, pork programs and projects attached to the $800,000,000,000 Stimulus package. Do not leave it to the government because as we have seen in the past there is no accountability if it feels good do it no matter the consiquences especially on how they spend We The People's money.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:07 PM
Well atleast your rant went well.

When I blew up at work the person I told the same thing to told me get this.. she said ina a sickly pius tone of voice. "Be patient and trust in Obama."

Oh dear lord

I had to leave work early or risk going to the hospital.
That was two weeks ago and I'm still bleeding inside.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:09 PM
reply to post by David9176

Under housing and Urban Development first time homeowners .. (ahem ...) especially blacks and poor, are being given larger Grants to go towards down payments. Of the ones I have heard of from friends in the mortgage biz, are usually around 4-5k, but the more of a minority you are, the more kids you have, and the less money you make, seems to open the doors to a variety of different grants, but more specifically tax rebates.

the down payment on a house, if not the traditional 20%, will not lower the actual monthly cost but by maybe 10-20 dollars.. you have to have PMI on your mortgage because your not at 20% LTV. It's like the government wants the problems to persist..

Like my new Avatar David?

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:10 PM

Originally posted by ConservativeJack
when you get angry, stress strains the human nervous system which leads to cancer and heart disease, strokes, ect.

i suggest, you stop being so stuck in the moment.

worry about yourself.

Obama is the leader of the free world, a member of the masons, CFO leader, Harvard leader....

the world is in good hands.

now, you mr, need to relax, and stop being so petty. big picture thinking, get a girlfriend, get off ats, stop posting about Obama 10times a day for weeks, and months, and going on years.

Who do you work for exactly? You sound like spin police. He is angry. More people should get pissed. This idea about pacifying people and making compliant robots who just sing songs of Kumbaya and water under the bridge. I imagine you profit from this system somehow, otherwise, you wouldn't be a behavior modifier. If you stifle dissent and stop riots you authorize and allow tyranny, even tyranny of incompetance. Your diagnosis is neither professional or warranted. Those who believe they are entitled to anything are thieves. Any who advocate relaxation and peaceful thoughts are sheep. What the world needs now are more good wolves. If a revolution ever broke out, I'm not looking to the new ager or the touchy feel gooders for support, I'm getting the angry irrational convicts out of jail. i'm looking to the gangs and organized crime. I'm looking for the dominant people, I'm looking for real men, not momma's boys. I know gay men with more spine than that. I know lesbians with more balls. And, the first thing I'd do, is get the submissives out of the way, they are the reason for all this mess. Dominant dissenters were once the safeguard of Liberty. Now, the Recessive Submissive's, need more than ever to be reigned the hell in.

Don't tell any man they should relax. He is a law abiding Citizen and a Creation of God, judge his actions not his emotions, the heart belongs to GOD, not man to judge. There is no guilt in having emotions. You can be angry and still be rational, if your anger is based on rational thought. He is not a suspect, don't "handle" him!

[edit on 20-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:17 PM
reply to post by David9176

Whenever there is help or some kind of reward being offered always expect that there will be a group of people who will try and abuse it.

There was a business that would reward their on-the-phone customer service representatives with a bonus each week if they could solve any problem a customer calls in about within 5 minutes. When they started this program, they noticed that every call ended in under 5 minutes, and every customer service representative was getting a bonus. A month later, the company received numerous complaints from customers - what they found out was that the customer service representatives were hanging up on customers before the 5 minute mark, so that they could receive a bonus.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:19 PM

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by David9176

Because people who buy homes takes less homes off the inventory, brings home values up, less properties are left derelect. The more property values go up, the less people lose out, the more the states make money, and people can now get loans for what their properties are actually worth. Then people are able to start selling houses again, employ realators and construction workers.


That is, temporarily, life is good. What till the waiter brings the Bill before you dive into that Humble Pie, eh.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:24 PM

Originally posted by snowen20
When I blew up at work the person I told the same thing to told me get this.. she said ina a sickly pius tone of voice. "Be patient and trust in Obama."

Now, that's scary. I keep running into people who say similar things, but your run-in sounds kind of creepy. I'm glad you walked away.
There are a lot of people talking like that, and we can't let them all get our goat. I bite my tongue sometimes too.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:30 PM
reply to post by DJMessiah

Whenever there is help or some kind of reward being offered always expect that there will be a group of people who will try and abuse it.

Most of the programs are not "help" at all .. most of the programs are a way to get the once untouchable market of lower income families into homes, instead of renting. While the concept can be interpreted as a noble cause, to help families build equity, and thus wealth, the fact remains that if you cannot afford the house as is, you won't be able to afford it after the Government gives you 5k towards closing cost. The PMI added on the note is more then the savings from the Government.

The programs to "keep families in their homes" won't really show much of a benefit to the people. When a family is being foreclosed on they are usually presented with various "offers" .. most take a Moratorium (stop action) on their note. They pay the interest only, or they pay an agreed upon amount based on their deals with the mortgage company, and add the balance to the back of the note. Consequently, the Home Owner now has a life time note, unless the families income increases, or other debt is alleviated.

Government sponsored debt consolidation that many, many poor people have been using the past two years are getting a huge shock from the IRS.. that 15k in credit card debt that you now only owe 5k on? that's 10k in back taxes.

Using tax subsidies are often temporary, and insufficient.. if someone owes 1.3k a month on their mortgage, and the Government sends them a check for $300 a month, and they both lost their jobs.. wtf is $300 going to do to a 1.3k a month mortgage? Nothing.. they still get foreclosed.

Aside from that, banks are so backed up with foreclosures that many people (and I sadly dealt with quite a few people like this) stop paying their mortgage simply because they know the banks will "loose them in the shuffle". I had talked to people who have not paid their mortgage in 1+ years, never plan to pay again, and when the bank finally finds out "hey, F it, I have negative equity anyways".

The government handing money out to people NEVER works. Didn't work for Bush's $180 billion dollar tax rebate, won't work with Obama's 350+Billion tax rebate, and it won't work with Obama's 270billion housing Stimulus.

Anything the government touched is left scared and dead, the government staying out of the economy, out of our LIVES, is the only thing to bring about a sense of normalcy.. it's a shame we are collectively a bunch of cowards, and need our Nanny State to hold our hands in these dark times.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:35 PM
reply to post by David9176

I won't matter much if he does it or not... Manufacturing around the globe is falling faster than it did during the great depression from what I have been reading.

If he buys the house it will do him no good unless he has a full pantry. I really think we are headed for a huge population cull. The only way out of this mess will once again be war and this one will make WWII pale in comparison.

This whole thing has been manufactured. That guy taking the "chosen ones" money should be the least of your worries... It won't matter in the long run.

Keep buying the three B's and you may be ok....

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:45 PM
"Things are pretty emotional right now cause we're all so much at-risk. But stop and think. If we don't stop the housing plunge we will never be able to turn the economy around. No existing homeowner will be able to sell their homes as there will be no buyers. More homes will be foreclosed."

.....ahhhh horse is the deal. What ever happened to purchasing a home to live in? problem in todays world is that everyone wants to make a deal from what they have. I say let this housing down turn correct itself and the behavior that it has invoked... oh boo hoo....I purchased my home twenty one yrs ago and I didn't think "hmmmm in so many yrs itll be worth? ya lets buy it ". Then again Im one of those upper middle class elitists that needs to be patriotic and pay my fair share.

If this rant ticked you off....good. Goin back to my work shop to install a new gyro in my RC a matter of fact, I might just put the bird in the air tomorrow and let her crash just so i can go to my local hobby shop and do my patriotic duty of helping out this

... if this rant didn't tick you off...then you understand and listened to your elders and to the elders out there who understand self sufficient living....teach a youngster in the family. The only way out of this mess is to tuck under what the me gen has done perpetuated by the baby boomers. Remember the b boomers where the ones who side slipped and broke from the elders teaching traditions. (ok not all but the majority)

that is all


posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:46 PM
i dont understand what everyone is calling a free ride. you pay the money back ,wether you take it or not. you're not stealing anyones money.
the debt went straight to everyone when the messiah signed the bill.
and we will pay for it for generations to come...take it or not.
so gobble up what you can,and when you look at the deductions on your paycheck ,you can feel a little better,cause you're just paying back what you took,instead of paying for someone else's piece.

it's your money,if you're smart enougfh to take it!!!! it's not theirs,WE borrowed it,and they're spending it.

do you buy groceries at the market and leave them there? it's the same thing

[edit on 20-2-2009 by Spectre0o0]

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:48 PM
its a tax credit... the govt is not putting down 7500 on your house when you buy it...

just like having kids is a tax credit...

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 10:21 PM

I understand what your saying, but I think you're mistaking a principled stand with a stand based on resentment. You resent anyone who has an easier time than you do, I only respect those who went through what you are going through. Sorry bro, but everything is relative. People have different kinds of struggles, different challenges..your co-worker is jumping on an opportunity. If you want someone to blame, blame washington, wall street, and all the credit-loving people we have here in america without a whit of financial responsibility...I don't know your co-worker's background, so I don't know if he's responsible or not..but I DO know that, as someone who's never owned a home/condo, I will be taking advantage of this when I'm ready, without guilt or shame at all. It's what one does with an opportunity that determines whether someone is worthy of it, really..

Edit: and, to be quite honest, it's none of your business..not your place to go off on someone because they're getting something that you're not..regardless of how you feel about it.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by dragonseeker]

I had a talk one day with my dad about why he bought my brothers and sisters cars and always gave them money and helped them pay their rent and get a home, etc. but, would never give me a damn thing and once when he did help me get the money for a car, I had to borrow it at 12% interest. I needed the money by a wednesday, but, didn't get paid till a friday. I had saved for it, but was one payday shy from having it all. I had asked for the loan, which he normally refuses me, I even offered interest, but 12% when they get handouts for free, it really pissed me off. Now, their arrangements were their business, not mine, it wasn't my money, he earned it, I didn't. wel, same here, government tricked people into empowering and working to pay them long ago, it's their money, not ours. Government earned it, because we give it to them, it's not ours anymore to compklain about once we handed it over. Get over that it's our money approach now, because, once we handed it over, then, no, it is not. Read the tax form, THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION, it doesn't say, THANKS I OWE YOU. There is however, something to be learned from it and the way it is used. I learned it when asking my dad angrily why he never gave me a damn thing and made me pay more than it's worth when he did.

One day, I asked him, why do you raise me different than them? He said you are the youngest boy, and your baby sister is the youngest girl. I thought as a good parent, I guess, I thought I could buy their love. I work double shifts and I'm never there for you, because I'm trying to provide for you all. I told him all I cared about was his time. He says I know that, but, the rest of them only care for my money, and that's my fault. I made them that way. By the time you arrived, I had realized what my daddy had always been telling me was as true as when his daddy told it to him. Well, I was going to do things right with you, and your baby sister, well, she was the baby, so, I guess I favored her more than I should've because of it. He says, I know it is hard on you watching the unfairness of it. I can't begin to imagine how you feel. But, before I die, I want to know I did right by at least one of my kids. The rest of them will suck me dry of all I have worked for before I ever do. And then, they won't have the time of day for me. I created them that way and now I have to pay for it, otherwise, they will put the burden on someone else, and it is my duty to deal with what I've done, not society's. He's right, once my stepmom told her son no he couldn't have some money, and he pulled a gun on her and demanded it, she paid up of course. They created monsters. He says, let me ask you something. Did you ever wreck that car I made you pay all that interest for? I said no. He said did you spend all your little bit of money fixing and maintaining it? I said yes. He said, did you keep it clean, inside and out? I said yes. He says, did you gun it and try to blow the engine, or drive like a maniac? I said, No, I babied it. He says did you earn and pay for your license and insurance, all that, on your own? I said, yes.

He said, that's why I did it. If I had paid for it you would have treated it like you didn't own it, even though you did. That's all they ever do. They wreck 'em and take out loans on them they can't repay. And I have to work two and three times as hard to fund it, they don't bother to work at all, and when they do, they pay their habits and lifestyles, and stick their hands out even then. You are the only one of my kids who pays me back, and, the high interest is to ensure you respect it all the more, that and, it goes to pay their handouts. You have paid for them, too. If I gave you the car, you'd treat it like I gave it to you. If I made you earn it, you'd treat it like you owned it. And, even though, it wasn't new like theirs, or as fast, or as good. It was way more valuable to you than theirs ever were to me or them.

Agree with me or not, but, I did right by you. And you will get older one day and think back on this and know I am right.

Almost 20 years later.

He was right.

Go ahead, take that opportunity to help yourself out, because, you don't always get the chance. I have not a penny to my name. I am out of work. I have no home, apartment, or trailer, etc. to my name. I have no credit cards. No checking or Savings. No credit. No debt. I have had the same clothes for over 5 years, even then they were out of date hand me downs. I spent $40 at a thrift store for the whole lot. Even though I had over $1500 in my pocket free and clear to blow as I wished at the time. Yet, I eat whatever I want, fly or have a truck or car to go wherever I need. Have many homes in many States and countries where I stay. Have all the time in the world. My entire life is a vacation, I work because I feel like it, when I feel like it, not because I have to. I can get up at any moment and just go whereever I please and do pretty much as I like, within reason. And, I have not 1 penny, not 1 asset to my name. And no one gives me anything. And I recieve nothing from government or business. My secret? My daddy did right by me.
You take that money and YOU will pay for it. And everyone will pay for YOU because of it. I have nothing yet have it better than the wealthiest man. Principles and Values. Work smart not hard.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 10:22 PM
Since there has been so much mis-information about the tax credit, let me post the details here:

1. Eight grand, new buyers: The tax credit included in the economic stimulus legislation is much narrower than the $15,000 proposal. This credit is equivalent to 10 percent of the purchase price of the home--although it's capped at $8,000--and applies only to first-time home buyers and principal residences. But unlike an earlier $7,500 home buyer tax credit, this one does not have to be repaid.

2. First time buyers defined: For the purpose of this legislation, a "first-time home buyer" is someone who hasn't owned a principal residence for three years before buying a house. (The date of purchase is considered the day that the title is transferred.) That means if you've owned a vacation home--but not a principal residence--within the past three years, you would still qualify for the credit.

3. 2009 buyers only: Only those who purchase a home on or after January 1 and before December 1, 2009 are eligible for the credit. Anyone who bought a home last year won't be able to take advantage of it.

4. Income limits: The tax credit is subject to income limitations. Single buyers need a modified adjusted gross income of $75,000 or less to qualify for the full credit, that's $150,000 for married couples. Those earning more than these thresholds may be eligible for reduced credits.

5. Refundable: Because the tax credit is "refundable," qualified buyers can take advantage of it even if they don't have much tax liability.

6. Recapture: Buyers have to own the home for at least three years in order to capitalize on the credit. If they sell the home before then, they will have to return the credit to the government. (Exceptions will be made in certain cases, such as death or divorce.)

David, I share your ire over your co-workers comments.
If your co-worker is serious about buying a home, he might be making a big mistake at this time. First of all, unemployment is certain to keep increasing, possibly reaching 10% for U2, and 22-24% for U6, the more accurate number. The last thing that a first time home buyer wants is to lose a job soon after buying a new home. If I were a new home buyer, I certainly wouldn't let an $8,000 tax credit entice me into buying a home, unless a had considerable savings and a fairly large down payment, as well as a second income. Even then, it is very risky. If a person loses a job in this environment, getting a new one would probably be quite difficult, unless that person had a unique, sought-after skill(in which case, they probably wouldn't have lost their job in the first place.) With a U6 of 20%, you're talking about over 30 million unemployed people that they'd be competing with, for another job.

The long-term unemployed number has risen sharply in the last 12 months. This is the number of people that are still unemployed after 27 weeks. This number is probably as important, if not moreso, than the unemployment rate.

Imagine buying a hew home, losing your job, then taking more than 7 months to find a new job. Would a new home buyer be able to cover the carrying cost of mortgage, real estate taxes, utilities, and home insurance as well as living expenses, auto insurance, food, medical, etc.?

In times of low unemployment, this would have been a great incentive. (I'm not commenting on whether it is right or wrong to essentially shift the $8,000 to the general populace), but now, I think it would be disaster, unless, as I said earlier, you had the savings, job security, etc.

Remember, the entire financial crisis was kicked off by the housing crisis, which was started when Barnie (Frank) and Friends forced banks to give loans to people who should NEVER have had a home in the first place. They defaulted, and you alll know THE REST OF THE STORY.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 11:37 PM
The obscession with home ownership in this country is insane. If we want to use government as a tool to shape our society (socialism), we should at least have the sense to use it to encourage people to live in apartments which are much more sensible in terms of economics, environment, urban planning and transportation.

These policies that are intended to put everybody in a house have given us the housing bubble, the mortgage crisis and massive urban sprawl. I work with people who commute 2+ hours to work each way. Sometimes it occurs to me that they must be insane, but really it's the whole damn system that's insane. I haven't delved into their financial affairs, but they are probably massively in debt too. And I don't think of my tax dollars going to them, I think of it going to the people who own their debt.

A lot of bankers have lost big money in this crisis, but I imagine there are some very powerful people who have played their cards right, who have made a fortune off of this mess. A huge transfer of wealth is taking place right of our wallets and indirectly into their coffers as we speak.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 11:40 PM

Lights, camera, action.
Get thee to a webcam.
Post your passion in the media forum.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 11:50 PM
reply to post by spacedoubt

What good is it going to do man?

Look at the posts in this thread.

Everything is falling apart and people DON'T SEE IT!!!

They just pretend like everyday is going to be the same as the day before if they keep living the way this country has been for so long. We can't sustain it anymore.

Myself and others having been posting countless threads on everything and people still refuse to even consider what is wrong or that it's even a possibility.

They'd rather flame me than even bother to look at anything that is going on all around us. They refuse to look at the facts. They refuse to look at the numbers. Everything that many of us has posted is real! I don't post things that are BS.

Spacedoubt...we are in VERY BIG TROUBLE.

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 11:57 PM
reply to post by David9176

Sir, I think it would do a lot of good.
Don't give up on yourself, or me, or the country.
I didn't post the request for you to make a video as a joke, I posted it because you are very passionate about what you are saying.

So, consider it, ok?

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 12:01 AM

Originally posted by KaginD
Does this "first time home buyers" stimulus bill give the government part ownership of your home?? I mean, they say that you don't have to pay it back, is that because they now own a piece of it?? Also, do the property taxes on that home go up because of this? Just some questions I had on this.. I don't blame you for getting upset. I think everyone is a little TO willing to take money from the government.. I don't trust it. I feel like they keep giving us a check every couple of months to shut us up for a while.. Its worse then hush money!

It does give the government part ownership of the home sofar as the owner is a taxpayer.. Since the government taxes individuals and families based on income class/tax bracket, the amount you bend over and take it for the government depends on how much you earn. Therefore, If you make 60 dollars an hour, the government has a vested interest in the money you make because of the taxes you pay. Don't forget, this is a taxpayer-funded bailout bill too. The government has less of a vested interest in someone that makes $10/hour than someone making $200/hr.. That's because without those people making that money and paying those taxes there would be no bailout bill in the first place.


[edit on 21-2-2009 by BlasteR]

[edit on 21-2-2009 by BlasteR]

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 12:15 AM

Originally posted by David9176

If this continues to happen it will just keep ballooning the problem.

This is a huge part of why this country is in trouble yet we keep doing it.

I won't be apart of this. I refuse to.

If i'm missing out on thieving taxpayers then so be it.

I hope everyone else enjoys my money.

So I'm hearing ya on the taxpayer thing... but at the same time, I know _A LOT_ of people who NEED something right now. Laid off, can't find work, serious issues.

Before we get indignant about the gov taking tax payers money in an attempt to save the economy, we need to also look at the damage the poor economy is causing.

100's of thousands of people out of work, by no fault of their own. I have a cousin who was laid off from IBM after 27 years... 3 years from getting her retirement...

I don't really know what to say.... honestly though, I don't think "Keep your hand outta my pocket" is the right thing... Primarily because that sounds like a banker

It really looks like this is going to come down to a civil war between the haves who are pissed at those who are "taking advantage" of the system, and the have-nots who are pissed at the haves for screwing the system up to begin with.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by HunkaHunka]

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