I lost it at work today.

There's a similar scheme in Australia, the first home buyer's grant, about the same amount of cash, adjusted for the exchange rate.

I think it makes sense for first home buyers - but if people have screwed up and are buying another house just to get the cash splash, it doesn't seem good.

I wouldn't have "lost it" over it though, I'm barely out of university, and coming from social housing, owning a home is not on my "to do" list anytime soon.

Seems awfully rancid with envy from all spots on the ladder.

Originally posted by HewhoKnows
well, i know nothing of the U.S policies since im from Scotland, but i have to dissagree with compwiz, i mean, you get given a large sum of cash like that for buying a house in the middle of a globle recession, true that things may only get worse, but think of the mortgage nd stuff you'd have to put out and bills and stuff. Ofcourse we wont find out the real reason for the goverment handing out lots of cash to home buyers (which i might add probably isnt the best idea at this time), but it will only lead to more debt, and all debt must be paid, eventually. I'd be the same in saying that i wouldnt trust the goverment.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by HewhoKnows]

Here's what is taking place. In order create the chaos needed to shift wealth from the public to the private sector, to make it more ammenable to the Federal Reserve Bank, which both prime and central banks are owned and controlled by the same people, they are dorcing a liquidation of secondary institutions while indebting them to the primary institutions. Communism is better for wealth accumulation than Capitalism, the rise of Industry created Capitalism, creating a middle class wealth that rivaled, for the first time ever, the Church and State' s treasury and power. The aristocracy of the super wealthy families despise the midle class capitalist, but, have had to systematically infiltrate and undermine it. What we see in history and today is a reflection of that. By creating the financial problems through forced lending for houses, vehicles, loans for products and services, it is a staged undermining of Capitalism by Communistic Oligarchy's guised as Socialist Nationalism to undermine the individuals rights for that of the groups, if successful the minority elites will find themselves a monarchy rather than an elected class. That is how they are lured into the trap, the ultimate goal will be to undermine their rule and submit them to the ancient long time super wealthy ruling class effectively restoring the aristocracy and then converting it back into an oligarchy, and eventually creating an Emporer of the Globe where the head of the Wealthiest of the Super wealthy families will rule all. That's the plan.

Here today, the bad lending that created this mess is being reinforced to solidify the impact. By giving all that free money for down payment, that will dole out the treasury in a way that cannot be replaced. Then, the bad lending will draw in those who never even thought of buying a home, or, buying, yet again, a home they shouldn't. And homes are not the only part, again, it will be cars, and grants on loans for products and services, also. This will take the existing bubble and exponential multiply the affect. While they make all these doles, billions here (trillions after interst) billions there (trillions after interest) and trikkions (trillion and a half after interest, whatever, they argue and debate in the media, one or the other, when really, the packages should be tallied together, plus interest, without regard for the administration which administered it, and the total cost should be discussed for the real picture. Doing it in pieces, while making mention of the other doles, makes it sound less in the mind than overall it really is. So, you take the $8- 10, 000 per person you are out, realize most will, yet again, get in over their heads, and forclosure begins anew, toxic debts skyrocket, by then, the fallout from the first wave begins and each successive wave reinforces the wave(s) before it, then, by the time the fallout from this planned catastrophe hits, the past is blamed, the present (in the future) will add, yet again, to the problem to keep it going, and the waves will integrate together and accumulate into a snowball effect which will avalanche on everyone in it's wake, except for, of course, the Federal reserve Bank, which will be the last institution standing. Apply this globally, and, you may begin to see why.

Originally posted by HewhoKnows
well, i know nothing of the U.S policies since im from Scotland, but i have to dissagree with compwiz, i mean, you get given a large sum of cash like that for buying a house in the middle of a globle recession, true that things may only get worse, but think of the mortgage nd stuff you'd have to put out and bills and stuff. Ofcourse we wont find out the real reason for the goverment handing out lots of cash to home buyers (which i might add probably isnt the best idea at this time), but it will only lead to more debt, and all debt must be paid, eventually. I'd be the same in saying that i wouldnt trust the goverment.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by HewhoKnows]

Here's what is taking place. In order to create the chaos needed to shift wealth (and power) from the public to the private sector, to make it more ammenable to the Federal Reserve Bank, which both prime and central banks are owned and controlled by the same people, they are forcing a liquidation of secondary institutions while indebting them to the primary institutions. Communism is better for wealth accumulation than Capitalism, the rise of Industry created Capitalism, creating a middle class wealth that rivaled, for the first time ever, the Church and State' s treasury and power. The aristocracy of the super wealthy families despise the midle class capitalist, but, have had to systematically infiltrate and undermine it. What we see in history and today is a reflection of that. By creating the financial problems through forced lending for houses, vehicles, loans for products and services, it is a staged undermining of Capitalism by Communistic Oligarchy's guised as Socialist Nationalism to undermine the individuals rights for that of the groups, if successful the minority elites will find themselves a monarchy rather than an elected class. That is how they are lured into the trap, the ultimate goal will be to undermine their rule and submit them to the ancient long time super wealthy ruling class effectively restoring the aristocracy and then converting it back into an oligarchy, and eventually creating an Emporer of the Globe where the head of the Wealthiest of the Super wealthy families will rule all. That's the plan.

Here today, the bad lending that created this mess is being reinforced to solidify the impact. By giving all that free money for down payment, that will dole out the treasury in a way that cannot be replaced. Then, the bad lending will draw in those who never even thought of buying a home, or, buying, yet again, a home they shouldn't. And homes are not the only part, again, it will be cars, and grants on loans for products and services, also. This will take the existing bubble and exponential multiply the affect. While they make all these doles, billions here (trillions after interst) billions there (trillions after interest) and trillions (trillion and a half after interest, whatever, they argue and debate in the media, one or the other bad spending, when really, the packages should be tallied together, plus interest, without regard for the administration which administered it, and the total cost should be discussed for the real picture. Doing it in pieces, while making mention of the other doles, makes it sound less in the mind than overall it really is. So, you take the $8- 10, 000 per person you are out, realize most will, yet again, get in over their heads, and forclosure begins anew, toxic debts skyrocket, by then, the fallout from the first wave begins and each successive wave reinforces the wave(s) before it, then, by the time the fallout from this planned catastrophe hits, the past is blamed, the present (in the future) will add, yet again, to the problem to keep it going, and the waves will integrate together and accumulate into a snowball effect which will avalanche on everyone in it's wake, except for, of course, the Federal Reserve Bank, which will be the last institution standing. Apply this globally, and, you may begin to see why.

This is how I would take over the World.


[edit on 20-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]

i agree with the term 'debt enslavement' mentioned before, nothing is free in this world.

All I gotta say is buy gold and ammo

Originally posted by mikerussellus
All I gotta say is buy gold and ammo

Maybe you could have the actual bullets from your ammo cast from the gold so they'd serve more than one purpose.

I don't know of anyone worth the 'lead' not to think of the gold

reply to post by David9176


Maybe a month ago, I would of agreed with yoour line of thinking. I 65 hrs a week, I pay my taxes, and I all of my bills are up to date. Regardless of how good my credit score is, these damn banks are simply not lending.

Banks are buying new jets, CEOs are still getting bonuses but where is my help?

I do agree though that your friend has a piss poor attitude in his approach to this opportunity

However; those of us who have always followed the rules and have played it straight we should see it as "finally my tax dollars are working in my favor for once."

I guess it just depends on the perspective.

I bet you I don't even qualify for that kind of assistance!

Oh well, C'est la vie!!

Ok, let's say this one more tiny time, then I'm done with this thread. Many people, went to school, worked hard for many many years, did the same that many of you are talking about, and from NO fault of their own have lost their jobs etc. OR, like my family, have done all the above, but still have the same income as four years ago. I sincerely (sarcasm on) hope that those of you who say people who need assistance at this horrible time in our economy are "lazy so and so's", never ever end up having a "lazy" moment. Because if you do, it is your own *snip* fault and has nothing to do with an economy that is falling apart.

If you do, don't come a crying asking for that INCENTIVE to get into a home or keep your home once you find a decent job again and once the economy stops slapping hard working citizens around. (sarcasm off)

I do feel for those of you who did the right thing, and lost your home anyway, in confusion, I wonder why you "hate" so much that some people might get to keep their homes. When things were going bad for you, would you have accepted help? No? You would have gone ahead and sold your home for a loss even though you could have had help? Be honest now.

My husband and I did the right thing when we bought our home about four years ago. We were pushed by the bank to take a loan for over 250thousand and to take an adjustable rate because "it would be better for us". We refused, bought a home for 130 thousand with a fixed rate. Every day, with the cost of living increasing at a horrendous rate, but our income staying the same, things are getting harder and harder and I intensely fear for our future.

If I can get assistance instead of losing our home, that WE WORKED HARD FOR and SAVED for, I'm gonna take it.

I DO agree that any assistance given should have regulations and that people should have to qualify.

Peace to all of you, even those who do not seem to understand, that this economy is pushing around many hard working tax paying citizens.

Honestly, I'd like to think that I would have done the right thing. I am raising mychildren to be independent and NOT to rely on handouts, government intervention, or any type of bail out. Personal responsibilty is the buzzword in our house (rented) but at the end of the day I can look my wife and children in the face, and say that we did it on our own!

And when I do bubt another house, I will do my damnest to do as much as I can on our own.

People never own their home anyway. A "Title" is not a deed of ownership, just of possession. The wording is intentionally misleading to sucker people.

My sympathies for "loosing it". You are right. The goal is to get you into the debt slave prison, not to help you get a house.

Interesting that none of the people lamenting the current state of affairs seemed to care at all when we spent a trillion destroying and rebuilding Iraq.

Send a bit of money for our own well-being and these same people's skulls explode like overripe melons. They have ZERO CREDIBILITY.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
All I gotta say is buy gold and ammo

Actually. The last depression found all the Gold seized. So, if you think they won't take everything of value, wow, give me some of that. Where will you keep the Gold? Near you? Or, in a vault that they guard and tax to death or just seize and strip you clean. That is a scam, too. No country fell that it's Government and Military, and Police didn't seize all the valuable property and resources.



[edit on 20-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]

David,
By the sheer number of posters for and against, we can all agree this seems to be divisive issue.
An one hand, there is the sense of honor and morality that would prohibit you from taking part in a program you know will backfire eventually and leave us all, to paraphrase an earlier post, further "debt - enslaved". "Blood money" is what the Italians call it. A debt that can never be paid back in full because as the debt compounds our families, meaning our kids and their kids, will be the ones shouldering this debt. Not to even mention that "making" all this money will have an inflationary effect, and negative confidence in the US dollar by others abroad.
On the other hand for those families, especially with children, who have a home and are truly struggling, it may be the only way for them to hang on. Since the real estate market is bust it won't be a gain in equity, but more of correction in value to what the mortgage reflects. For new home buyers it truly is a legal opportunity for short term gain in personal wealth, (i.e. equity) unlike education grants or business grants which give money with the prospect of have an educated work force, or a viable business that will add to the GNP, respectively.

Personally, I think you are right to be angry. Your friends reason to "get in on" the stimulus package is exactly why we are where we are, isn't it?
In a word,
Greed
Unfortunately, neither you or I can change human nature.
But, having a sense of right and wrong is what separates us from them, David.
You stay on the high road, Bro.
Great thread - Star and flag for you!

reply to post by Curio


This is why people default,the single girl buy's a house way beyond her means, then after a few months reality sinks in, oh my these bill's are interfering with my lifestyle, at 24 you cant spend what you do not have.so she starts skipping a few bill's and next house payment's, how do i know all this. the house next door to me has changed hands 4 times in 10 years that i have lived here,and just happened to talk to the folks from the bank when they check out the house after.

There was already a tax credit in place for first time home buyers in previous years, however, now this credit is not taken back, in other words previously if you owned a home for the first time you could take like a 5k or so deduction, however, in the small print this was really like a loan because the IRS would deduct it back over like 5 years, on top of that something that you don't have to payback is deducting interest, this is especially good for all loans because in the early years of the loan you get your interest back so the bank is merely charging you interest that they borrow from you while paying it to them along with your principal but the irs lets you deduct a certain amount and gives you some back, if you are honest Abe you would think hey, no Mr. bank I dont want you to pay me back any interest that is cheating you, I know how much you need that money to keep your bank strong and running, you keep my money.

But you never hear anyone complain about this break that has been given for years and years, who would give your money back, they don't have to but they do, and it benefits a homeowner, what advantage does a renter have in that respect, truth be told the money i get back in interest comes close to what I used pay in rent for a year about 6 years ago.

I think people blowing their tops need to stop listening to the media and people that either add their own spin, have an interest or really do not know what the flank they are talking about, go educate yourself and read about what is going on now, did you throw a tantrum back when Wall Street started to collapse and they were getting money every single day, that was "Quietly"injected by the Fed, now I could be wrong but this money was not loans it was given to these idiots to keep them afloat, then they turn around and want a loan from the U.S. taxpayers to bail them out even as they gambled away all of that money and collapsed, I say this.

The world I thought I lived in ceased to exist beginning with working for a company called worldcom thats when I had faith in the company I worked for that they would take care of me, well I lost out on about 60k thanks to the Bernie Ebbers show now he is locked up, this was my first exposure to corporate greed and being screwed over by some suit in an office calling himself a CEO, now I am a veteran too! then after that the invincible country I thought existed called the U.S. changed drastically after 911, if you haven't figured it out yet then I cant help you, honest abe is dead, everyone is corrupt, you can keep the scouts honor but like my 6th grade teacher once told me, the world isn't fair, you can do yourself a huge favor and never catch feelings over anything you really do not know the truth about or you can't personally control, get what you can now, if you want to remain honest and keep high integrity as a personal bar that is all good and well but I think that too many people in the world have been fooled and tricked at all levels and the media is using one liners to point their fingers at us the people when that is not the full truth, we the people are to blame partially but the government and corporate thugs are much more of a threat to you, your financial well being and the future more than anyone that just wants a piece of the action working an honest 9-5.



[edit on 20-2-2009 by phinubian]

I am a real estate agent. No don't flame me! I haven't made hardly anything in the last year, but the TAX CREDIT passed in the stimulus bill is an $8,000 tax credit and is for First Time Home Buyers ONLY and they have to purchase between Jan. 1st and Dec 31st of 2009. That is only $500 more than the previous tax credit that was $7500. It really is no big deal unless you are buying a starter home in the low $100K's. There is no free money up front. It is only a tax credit.

That said, Obama has said he is going for a housing bill to try and jump start home sales. We will wait to see more and more of our future spent irresponsibly until the Government collapses from being bankrupt and unable to borrow any more money because of the irresponsible waste of money doing the wrong things. Imo that may be their plan to usher in the NWO.


Just a heads up. In the paper today I read where attorneys are forcing the banks or whoever is foreclosing on homes to produce the original documents signed when the mortgage was consummated at the closing on the home. 40% of the foreclosure agents cannot produce those documents because of all the shady bundled securities sold all over the place, many with your mortgages in them and it has stopped foreclosures cold. One person has been in their home 4 years because of the tactic. A federal judge stopped 14 foreclosures by Deutsche Bank on November 11th 2007 over that tactic and only one foreclosure was able to supply the original documents. The federal judge says they owe nothing until they can show the original documents where the home owner signed.

It is a complete and global mess and we haven't seen the worst yet imo. Even with the US Gov bailouts, the economies are so intertwined globally that there are situations beyond their control. And they can keep trying to convince the world that all this money the gov is spending..er borrowing is going to fix things and eventually the folly of their ideas will backfire and the global collapse will happen anyway. Only after that can they start rebuilding. I feel like we are only prolonging the inevitable.


[edit on 20/2/09 by spirit_horse]

Originally posted by Bombeni
Are you sure about this? The stimulus package includes money to help people BUY MORE HOUSE they propably won't be able to pay for in six more months?

Is there somewhere I can go to read this info that they are giving large sums of cash to first time home buyers because my 26 year old son has not purchased a home yet but wants to. If they are handing it out I'd just as soon get our share of it, it's all going to be worthless by the end of the year anyway. Why not experience a little joy where ye may?

It isn't by taking your share that is the problem. The sublimity of law is that it's deceit is mixed in with good intentions. Corrupt authority deteriorates the system that authorizes them, so, say you have a bad cop, okay small inherant risk with the system. Say you have a whole corrupt department of police, it decimates the system. There is a very real need and purpose for police, but, in the latter condition, not only is their purpose and need in danger, but, is compounded dramatically.

It is not that you, "get yours," and buy a home, it stimulates the economy for all the products and services involved, eventually, it repays itself. That's capitalism. The reality is that, how do you seperate those who are going to get theirs and make it work, from those that are going to get theirs and, don't make it work, which put's the strain on the rest. Do this enough and everyone will get their's alright. When, if it was really yours to get, they wouldn't have to give it to you, now, would they?

You become the handmaiden to tyranny.

If the true intent was to stimulate spending? To what end? To refill the failing treasuries drained by black projects and raqueteering, plus legitimate bad spending? Seems the logical answer would be to put the money directly into the State and Local and federal treasuries. Capitalism continues, and pass/ fail and personal responsability remains in tact. Who gets the bulk of the money and taxes from money recieved and spent? The IRS. And where does the IRS put it, in the Fed Res Bank. And where do they put it? They loan it back to the US, which the owners and controllers are not Citizen's of, at interest, which capital and interest through joint stock, which was made illegal after they created and bought it, gives it to the families that own the Fed Res Bank. So, in the end, they liquidate the Fed Res Bank when all is done, and own the World. Really, there's no need to go there, they own it now. When is enough enough?

If you really wanted to stimulate spending to refill the treasuries, just refill the treasuries directly and call it a day.

If you get yours now, we all get ours later. I don't own or rent and don't care to, I don't have your headaches. And no taxpayer pays for me. Yet, I will pay for your entitlements in the end as well.


[edit on 20-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by David9176
I work with someone who has been trying to own a home. All the power to him on that.

Today he told me that under Obama's plan, he can get 8000 or 10000 dollars from the government since he is a first time home buyer and it didn't have to be paid back. (I don't know the exact details, it's just what he told me) As he told me this, he also mentioned that I should get in on this since I have never owned a home.

This is when I lost it.

I told him why would I do that? This is part of the problem. I don't want to steal money away from other people and why in the world would I risk buying one right now when everything is going to hell?

His answer?

Well I just want to get what I can before it gets too nasty.

This set me off on a 20 minute rant. I am so damn ANGRY about everything that is going on.

Politicians are corrupt, we are being taxed far too much, are debt is way too high, unemployment is rising at an alarming rate, wars all over, people wanting things for free (When it isn't really free it's stealing!).

How can anyone put trust in what is happening? HOW?

[edit on 20-2-2009 by David9176]

Hey so what are people supposed to do? Just throw their security to the wind. People won't do it. They are afraid of not having a home to die in when they get old. Even if it's not really their home in reality.

I belive it should only be the private workfoce individuals who recive the grant and public housing for public workforce as they don,t pay the same form of taxes