Illegal Immigrant - White Caucasian Settlers - Let Truth Be Spoken, page 3
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reply posted on 19-2-2009 @ 08:21 PM by TrueAmerican
Well unfortunately MA, your use of the term "illegal" in this case is misused in defining your argument.

When Columbus and his sailors landed on the islands of San Salvador in the Bahamas on October 12, 1492, they encountered peaceful, indigenous people who brought them gifts, and thought that they were Gods. The ships and items the visitors brought were very impressive and foreign to them. The natives were unarmed, yet bore scars from fighting off others who tried to take them as slaves. Nowhere that I have seen is it written that these people had "laws" as we know them, against such visitations. Their friendly nature would serve as testament to that fact.

From the October 12, 1492, entry in his journal he wrote of them, "Many of the men I have seen have scars on their bodies, and when I made signs to them to find out how this happened, they indicated that people from other nearby islands come to San Salvador to capture them; they defend themselves the best they can. I believe that people from the mainland come here to take them as slaves. They ought to make good and skilled servants, for they repeat very quickly whatever we say to them. I think they can very easily be made Christians, for they seem to have no religion. If it pleases our Lord, I will take six of them to Your Highnesses when I depart, in order that they may learn our language."[18] Lacking modern weaponry and even metal-forged swords or pikes, he remarked upon their tactical vulnerability, writing, "I could conquer the whole of them with 50 men, and govern them as I pleased." [19]


en.wikipedia.org...

Other sources write that Columbus and his men were extremely abusive, and even that they would routinely cut off pieces of these natives just to test the edges of their knives and swords.

Their obsession with finding gold was evident when they had the natives sworn to find and bring them gold every three months, for which they would get a copper pendant to be worn around their necks. Those without one would get their hands cut off and be left to bleed to death. With this kind of treatment, it is no wonder the natives turned on them, but failed, as they were no match for the war hardened band of merciless sailors and their swords and shields.

There was no negotiation. The natives were made to swear allegiance to the King and Christianity, or were killed. Most were taken as slaves or died because of diseases brought by the sailors.

So it really wasn't a case of "illegal." It was case of imperialistic barbarism and the total subjugation and murdering of otherwise friendly people who sought to help the visitors and admired them. Immoral? Oh yeah. Sad really.

But in the modern world all that has changed. Heh, or has it? The same things exists now to a degree, except with modern warships and weapons. The term illegal though now does have application since the introduction of "law" onto the continent. And since those are the rules played by, the term "illegal immigrant" has modern relevance.


reply posted on 19-2-2009 @ 08:24 PM by Jenna
reply to post by ModernAcademia



I do know the history of my land but I am beginning to wonder if you do. There have been far more people who have immigrated to the US since we became a country than before. That in and of itself disproves your statement that we are all descended from settlers.

And yes I would still tell anyone from any country who is illegally entering another country that what they are doing is illegal. They are by definition breaking the law regardless of which country they are entering illegally or who is in power.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Jenna]


reply posted on 19-2-2009 @ 08:32 PM by ModernAcademia
Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to
post by ModernAcademia



What would you have us do? Change history? We have to deal with the here and now regardless of the story history has told thus far. We cannot undo this and to make this argument is essentially to ask us to do just that. History is an important lesson for those who think imperialism is a good thing. Imperialism is the reason our country has risen and it will be the cause of our demise. No doubt there. But we should not be asking ourselves to forgo all that we've built, the laws we stand on, to appease the sensibilities of the past.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by projectvxn]


As far as all the post that didn't agree with me this post was the most on-point and in-topic.

Thank You, I will respond to this shortly
I hope more follow your lead.


reply posted on 19-2-2009 @ 08:38 PM by Mynaeris
reply to post by prevenge



You raise a valid point it seems that Russians were the first Americans - 13 000 years ago. Would that make Europeans the original americans?

Or is there a more convenient time in history that would suit the OP's rant?


Many scientists thought humans first ventured into the New World across a land bridge from present-day Russia into Alaska about 13,000 years ago.

This new discovery suggests humans may have crossed the land bridge into the Americas much earlier -- possibly during an ice age -- and rapidly colonized the two continents.

CNN.




reply posted on 19-2-2009 @ 08:45 PM by asmeone2
A thread I made wondering the same thing...

I used to be a lot more critical of the subject, but I realized, it probably is karma.

The criticism I do still have though, is that while I wholly recognized that the genocides and thefts of land did take place none of my ancestors ever had anything to do with that. All of them came from Italy or Germant or Wales in the 30s, and establisehd themselves here legally.

I get the karmic side of this but I do not think that it necesarily gives someone who cheats his way into the country, then lives off of handouts not availible to legitimate citizens, some claim to that over the people who just happened to be born here because their ancestors lived here.
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