Illegal Immigrant - White Caucasian Settlers - Let Truth Be Spoken

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
but you cannot compare the two

Yes, we CAN compare the two, and at least 4 and possibly more people in this thread have done exactly that.

In the case of Mr. Rancher whose court case this thread is an offshoot from, that's exactly what we're talking about - the "immigrants" broke into his home. They also dumped trash on his property which he is now responsible to clean up and dispose of.

We keep asking you the same question using slightly different words, and you keep avoiding it or ignoring it. Why?

The question is:

How would you feel if it was your property that people were coming onto without your permission and trashing?

A few years back my husband parked a jeep on some remote property we had because we used it to get around out there and it was a real hassle hauling it back and forth every time. We posted No Trespassing and Private Property signs, but couldn't afford to fence the entire 16 acres. Someone trespassed and stole our jeep. I suppose you think that's our fault for not having a fence up? Why can't the people who chose to ignore the signs and commit grand theft auto be held accountable for their actions? Why is it MY responsibility to keep people out instead of their responsibility to obey the law?

And that last is another question we've asked you repeatedly which you refuse to answer.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Yeah - that money goes to dictators like Saddam Hu..... wait...



[edit on 24-2-2009 by mf_luder]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
So i've been somewhat active in the thread about the ranch owner that assaulted some illegal immigrants and got fined, and because of this vigilanteism many are angry at the court outcome.

First of all, the Rancher did NOT assault anyone. He legally performed what is known as a "Citizen's Arrest" in the United States of America, and he lawfully detained a group of Non-Citizens Illegally Trespassing upon his Property. Anywhere you wish to travel in the United States, whether it be an extremely Liberal Region, or a truly Conservative Area, you are forbidden from violating any one individual's right to be Safe and Secure in and of their Property/Belongings. Once you have been informed of having Unlawfully Trespassed upon a Particular Property, you must immediately vacate the Premises. If the Property Owner wishes however, they may Press Charges. Until the time at which any appropriate Law Enforcement Officials make their presence known, the Plaintiff has the Authority and Right to detain the aforementioned Suspect(s)/Defendent(s). So what this Rancher did was WELL within the scope of the Written Law as it stands within the United States.

This angers me so much that many educated people on this board think this way.

Does it anger you that these "Many Educated" individuals simply have a greater grasp of the Law than yourself?

Whether you want to remember or not, whether you think it's currently important or not all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants but crusaders that came here with Genocide as their passports.

How can you declare Explorers and such to be "Illegal Immigrants", when in fact no one "Owned" the land upon which they ventured forth? The Native Tribes of the North American Continent (Particularly what is now the United States) did not have Established Territorial Deeds, Parcels of Ownership, nor did they even have Permanent Sites of Establishment (i.e., Towns, Villages, etc.). The idea of anyone being an "Illegal Immigrant" in the 17th and 18th Centuries is completely moot at best, and downright ludicrous in reality. Not to mention how you are attempting nothing more than to dwell upon the Past, while completely Ignoring the Present and Future events of Concern.

So the logic where, your grandfathers crusaded over here, then killed, raped, murdered the natives and then stuck the rest of them in 'reservations', and now after settling here through amnesty(because children born here are citizens even though their parents are immigrants) you call other illegals immigrants when they are just more peaceful and hungry versions of you great grandfathers is so very sad and has no logic whatsoever.

Again, this ties directly to the Aforementioned, but you cannot call someone an "Illegal Immigrant" when they in fact where they first to establish Property Ownership, and Officiated Territorial Claims, upon the Land which they eventually settled. You cannot call them "Crusaders" either, as they never entered into a Religious War, nor did they Skirmish over Faith-based issues.

As for "Reservations", that issue did not come about until roughly 200 + Years AFTER the Explorers and Colonials first Settled in what is now the Modern Day United States of America. You are attempting to draw connections between two entirely separate issues, and two vastly different periods in "American History".

NO, those who settled here in the Period which you mention are NOT "Immigrants", because it is THEY who first created this Sovereign Nation upon which you so ignorantly spew forth with your vile hatred and naivety. If you create a Nation, a House, a Building, etc., and you then dwell in it, you are in fact the Original Inhabitant of this Creation. Your logic is beyond flawed, and is in fact quite representative of any number of underlying issues you must harbor within.

I will not even being to entertain the other falsified and inflammatory remarks which you have decided to come forth with.

If you went to the future and read this story in a book you would look at these people as horrible human beings. Before reading on please take a pause, close your eyes and pretend you are looking back at this as so.

Who would be "Horrible Human Beings", those who oppose the current Invasion of and Complete Disrespect for our Rightfully Declared Sovereign Borders? The basic tenant of Humanity is that you respect what has been declared the Property of another Individual, and that is an ideal which you seem to admire in nothing more than your ability to toss it towards the gutter. THEN, you have the Nerve to call others on here "Hypocrites", yet YOU have succumbed to such a term in the Highest Order Possible.

If Israel completely took over palestine, some of these same people would be anti-israel because they know it's wrong. But when they are the descendants of oppressors they have a different opinion.

So who are you to declare Explorers and the Founders of this Nation as "Oppressors"? You are speaking of the very same Men and Women who Fought, Bled, and Died in the Creation of the most Free, Fair, and Diversified Nation on the face of this Earth. If you wish to speak of "Oppression", you need to look no further than towards the Nations and Tyrannical Movements upon which this Very Nation Stood Against, and Defeated.

As for Israel, this yet again displays with Crystal Clarity your lack of Historical Understanding. The "Palestinians" NEVER owned ANY Sovereign Territorial Lands. They are a People who have dwelled in much the same as their Present State, for well over 2,000 Years.

You want to say that we are not our ancestors?
Fine say it, but don't forget it.
And even if you refuse to remember it you still cannot call this your land.
So people should be able to go wherever their feet takes them.

NO, we ARE our Ancestors. We are the very same Tenacious Individuals who Charted and Explored a Frontier Continent; the Same Patriots who Fought and Died for Liberty and Freedom; the Same Believers in a Unified Nation of the like Ideals of Justice, Prosperity, and Independence.

It's so unfair, your ancestors invade this place and today you call others who come here illegally yet peacefully and you call them what you are but are exempt because of amnesty.

AGAIN, no one "Invaded" this Continent, as they Settled upon a Non-Claimed, Non-Territorially Declared, Non-Incorporated Frontier. To "Invade", they would have had to smash through the Border of a Nation or Empire, and THAT is EXACTLY what "Illegal Immigrants" are now guilty of. It matters little whether they make their entrance as a result of Malevolent or Benevolent Terms, for their Actions have already declared their lack of Recognition for Established Law and Order.

Your govt. sells guns, arms, puts a dictator in place in foreign nations, the people riot and you call them savages.

How many governments "Sell Guns/Arms", "Influence Foreign Leaders" and so forth? You act as if the United States has a Monopoly on World Events and Situaitons. Not to mention the fact that this topic has NOTHING whatsoever to do with "Illegal Immigration".

Your govt. imperializes, installs bases in foreign land and the people retaliate and you call them terroists.

We have not "Imperialized" ANYTHING, as we have NO Empire. The United States has LESS than a Handful of Territories, and they each have their own Independent National Governments. Establishing Influence (i.e., Military Bases) is not an act of "Imperialization'. We do not force such "Host Nations" to succumb to our Customs, Rules of Law, Morals, or Beliefs. We encourage their adherence towards an Equal, and Democratic Society, but aside from such they are free to Act as they Will. To be an "Empire", complete Control and Dictation of ones own Standards must be fully Enforced upon a Populace.

Many, none here i'm sure, but many tell black people to go back to their country when it was their ancestors who brought them here in the first place against their will.

Since when have "Black Americans" been told to go back to their "Country"? Africa is a Continent, NOT a Singular Nation. Aside from the fact that they are Citizens, and thus they entitled to Full Rights and Equality, what in your bringing forth of such Citizenry has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with them and "Illegal Immigration"? Again, you are putting forth whimsical claims of extremely absurd relation.

It's all so damn backwards, but you refuse to empathize because of the side of the fence which you reside in will hurt your conscience once you acknowledge it.

You are "backwards", because you fail to stand up for your own Nation of Residence/Birth, and instead you make illogical statements in order to represent your vehement hatred for the very place where you hail from. You have completely ulterior motives aside from what you proclaim, and such can be factually witnessed through your multi-faceted blanket claims of an unrelated nature.

This is hypocrisity in it's highest form!

So I ask you, please flag this thread, I wish for as many ATS members to come here and debate this topic as possible.

I will be an avid participant in this thread.


Thank You

You are the definition of Hypocrisy, and I do not feel the need to provide an in-depth Explanation as to why.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Do you know what else is factual? That there were slaves in Africa long before mean ole whitey came and took them (from their African slave owners)!
Also, Native Americans owned slaves, too. And guess what? They liked owning slaves so much that when the slaves were freed; they refused to give their slaves up!

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen
[ First of all, the Rancher did NOT assault anyone. He legally performed what is known as a "Citizen's Arrest" in the United States of America, and he lawfully detained a group of Non-Citizens Illegally Trespassing upon his Property]

This is not right.

How would you feel if you were detained by someone who thought he could keep you off his luxurious, desolate, dozens- or multiple hundreds- thousands- acres just because you wanted to cross it

Poor and Desperate, How would you feel?

He did not make an Citizen's arrest.

Citizen's arrest is where you arrest an rapist, mugger, murderer. The rancher arrested an group of innocent civilians for setting foot on, and thus defiling his land.

I don't even think he has a right to arrest suspected drug smugglers.

It gives too much room for abuse... Maybe this is how some of the Central or South American girls go missing... they get 'detained '

In fact, I think these incidents happen often... it's just not reported, part of the grand scam of the war on drugs and illegal immigration, and its very profitable side business, HUMAN SLAVERY!

Wake up fellow people! Borders are illegal, bogus, fraudulent, shenanigans.

I don't want the children of the future or consequently my reincarnated soul to see or live by these artificial borders or live under any other master.

A One-World non-corporate Government is fine, as long as nobody is biochipped and the puppet masters of the Elite long dead and hung for crimes against humanity.

Can't have it any other way.

reply to post by star in a jar



"It gives too much room for abuse... Maybe this is how some of the Central or South American girls go missing... they get 'detained '

In fact, I think these incidents happen often... it's just not reported, part of the grand scam of the war on drugs and illegal immigration, and its very profitable side business, HUMAN SLAVERY!"

The sex slave is one of the top three sources of income for those criminal invaders. MOST OF THE SEX SLAVES ARE 12 TO 15. CAPABLE OF FEELING EMPATHY??? for the true victums.
www.usborderpatrol.com...

You are inferior and I hope you live by criminal invaders because you will be raped and slaughtered when the SHTF. Social cleansing.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by insignificanthuman]

So people should be able to go wherever their feet takes them.

This might sound like a good idea. Peace, love, freedom, and all that. But.

It might have worked, back when we were hunter-gatherers and lived in caves. IF we were willing to move around all the time and not protect a territory. If you want to go back to being a nomad and live off the land .. okay. But what about those of us who don't?

Some farmer has spent years working his land and caring for his crops. If your feet happen to take you into the middle of his cornfield and that's where you decide you want to set up housekeeping, or even just stay for a night and trash the area, that's your right? What about the farmer's rights?

Or the rancher who is raising cattle. Do you have the right to move in next to the pond which is his cattle's only water source, just because "that's where your feet took you?"

Once we took up agriculture and keeping livestock, we had to be able to protect the lands being used to raise crops or animals for food. It's not about owning the land, it's about owning (and having a right to the proceeds from) the work we put into the land. Land ownership evolved out of this, and then people began to be able to build homes and stay in one place. Over time, groups of people traded back and forth to meet their needs, and then at some point they said "Hey, we want better roads .. I'm tired of replacing my wagon wheels every other month." So they got together and chipped in for better roads. Then they decided to have a community water source, or some kind of law enforcement, and they paid for it. Eventually we ended up with towns, and cities, where the people who live there pay for the services provided by the collective community.

Now you claim that anyone has the right to use their roads, drink their water, take advantage of their law, etc. etc. without contributing to the community, just because "that's where their feet take them?"

No, in the real world, that's not how it works, and it can't work like that. If people don't have a right to protect their homes and the sources of their livelihood, then they can't have anything and are right back to being hunter-gatherer nomads. In order to be able to stay in one place, have a home, and make a living, we have to be able to have "borders," areas within which services are provided and everyone within the borders pays for the services provided by the community, the "government."

Who would bother having a house, or a yard, if anyone could come in and take anything they wanted, or even just "hang out" there. How would it be if you couldn't keep strangers out of your own front yard or off of your porch?

No, in an industrial/agricultural society, we can't have people being able to "go wherever their feet take them." If you don't want to be a part of modern society, fine - go live with the Laplanders or desert nomads or some other primitive group who still live on the move on "free lands." But don't sit there fat and sassy in your home or apartment with all of the services provided to you for your contribution to the community (i. e. taxes and fees) and claim that anyone should be free to go anywhere they want. You wouldn't like it a bit if that "anywhere they want to go" included your house or your yard, and you wouldn't like it either if a bunch of people moved in and started availing themselves of the services you pay for without paying - especially if it meant that you had to pay the same, or more, and got less because they were taking some of it.

Climb down off your moralistic, self-righteous, idealistic pedestal and join us in the real world, where people are allowed to profit from their labors and protect their homes and the source of their livelihood, and maybe we can have an actual discussion.

Interesting post:
For myself, I can only say the following:
I am a white male american. I have gotten nothing from this country, except a higher tax rate. I will not say my ancestors did not do as you state, and yes after careful research can say they did own slaves. But that is in the past, I do not deny such, nor do I profit from such either, nor do any of my family for that matter. We got where we were by hard work and following the rules. I am not against anyone who wants to come and join the country and be a part of the community and country, but I am however a big believer in the laws of the land and such should be legal. I do not believe in abusing or condoning a person based off of anything, as that is the way I was raised. Based off of everything I have read, there are no Natives to the western hemisphere, and all of us, no matter of race, creed or origin, can all state that our ancestors came from another country.
While I may not support what has been done in the recent past, with the ranchers shooting at those to tresspass on their property, I do however support their right to defend such, to include animals and crops. For example would you let someone come where you live and work and let them take away from your job or home and no do anything? Like anyone, you would not like or want and probably after careful thought, do what you needed to protect such.

Originally posted by star in a jar
reply to post by TheAgentNineteen
[ First of all, the Rancher did NOT assault anyone. He legally performed what is known as a "Citizen's Arrest" in the United States of America, and he lawfully detained a group of Non-Citizens Illegally Trespassing upon his Property]

This is not right.

How would you feel if you were detained by someone who thought he could keep you off his luxurious, desolate, dozens- or multiple hundreds- thousands- acres just because you wanted to cross it

If I were trespassing, I'd feel like a criminal. You know why? Because I would be !!

Poor and Desperate, How would you feel?

Doesn't matter. Being poor is not a reason to break the law and take something that isn't yours.

I've given the following analogy
If a poor person were to break into your house and steal everything you own to sell, would you think that is OK?

He did not make an Citizen's arrest.

Citizen's arrest is where you arrest an rapist, mugger, murderer. The rancher arrested an group of innocent civilians for setting foot on, and thus defiling his land.

You're wrong. This is what the law says

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

* Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
* Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
* Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

has committed a federal crime.

Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.

Now based on that law, the judge ruled the following:

Judge Roll said the Barnetts, who live in close proximity to the border, could reasonably assume that large groups of people they encountered hiding or trespassing on their property were doing so with the aid of smugglers.

He said entering the United States illegally was a federal felony, for which a citizen's arrest was authorized under Arizona law.

These are facts which make you wrong. Sorry.

I don't even think he has a right to arrest suspected drug smugglers.

Learn the law before posting something like this.

Wake up fellow people! Borders are illegal, bogus, fraudulent, shenanigans.

Sorry but borders are legal and necessary. Please learn about illegal immigration and how it affects America.

I don't want the children of the future or consequently my reincarnated soul to see or live by these artificial borders or live under any other master.

Sorry but that's not going to change in the near future. My only suggestion for you is to make sure you're not re-encarnated.

Here is some information about those poor illegal aliens that the OP just can't stop supporting

WASHINGTON - Federal agents have rounded up 755 suspects in a wide-ranging crackdown on a Mexican drug cartel operating inside the United States, Attorney General Eric Holder announced Wednesday.

Oh my god, I thought that they just came across the border to make a better life for their families....well I guess if you think selling drugs is ok to make a better life then whatever.

In recent months, the DEA and other agencies have staged raids in 120 cities across the country that led to the 755 arrests.

120 cities..... WOW !! those illegal aliens have been busy ! They haven't done anything wrong, they're just going where their feet take them

DEA and other federal agents had seized $59 million in U.S. currency; 12,535 kilograms of coc aine; more than 16,000 pounds of marijuana; more than 12 pounds of methamphetamine; approximately 8 kilograms of heroin; approximately 1.3 million pills or 500 pounds of Ecstasy; approximately 120 kilograms of MDMA powder; and more than $6.5 million in other assets, including 149 vehicles, 3 aircraft, 3 maritime vessels and 169 weapons.

Wow, seems like those poor illegals are doing pretty damn well for themselves.
3 maritime vessels !!! I don't even have a freakin jet ski !!!!!!!!!!

"From Washington to Maine, we have disrupted this cartel’s domestic operations — arresting U.S. cell heads and stripping them of more than $59 million in cash — and seriously impacted their Canadian drug operations as well.

Hey OP looks like we're helping you out in canada. Oh wait, you don't want us to help you with your illegal alien problem right?

Kidnappings, killings and other violence related to the cross-border drug trade have escalated as heavily armed gangs battle for turf on the doorstep of the U.S. narcotics market.

Those crazy illegal aliens again. They sure know how to party, don't they OP?

www.msnbc.msn.com...

But they're not doing anything wrong except trying to make a better life for themselves RIGHT ???

I think you are missing something called the Founding of America .
In 1492, - we fought the natives they lost ... end of discussion ... just another war and the victors keep the spoils. so, whine somewhere else... this is the law of civilization ... my gun is better than yours - you lose~!
-- and you know I'm part Cherokee and even the cherokee faught for the right to hunt, fish & garden, they just lived off the land until those resources showed signs them being there, and they would move on every 3-4 months depending on the season. when the dump hole starts to really stink ... is what they say. but not all cherokee moved around ... just some I guess.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by BornPatriot]

I could not possibly agree with you more, and I'm caucasian.
This country was founded on genocide and slavery, financed by Masonic bankers, complete with Luciferian rituals. What did they find buried on Ben Franklin's property?

reply to post by BornPatriot


Excellent post. Even in the history books they show that the Native American tribes moved around a great deal, but they don't bother talking about what happened to the tribes in the new areas they occupied, or who took over those lands they left, when their leave was less of a choice, and more a matter of fleeing from conquerors.

It seems that the idea that Europeans brought diseases that wiped out vast populations of Native Americans in the interior is the only one being taught, but another equally probable contributor is that those Indians first exposed to Europeans, and European technology gained a tremendous advantage in weapons over their ancient enemies in the interior, and essentially wiped out large numbers of their ancient enemies before Europeans arrived in the interior. Not only technology, but the arrival of the horse, which made vast changes in Native American culture.

Once the new wave of people started arriving from Eurasia, there was no turning back.

This logic is screwy. I get what is ment at least from a historic standpoint . I and many of todays American descend from a mixture of ethnic backgrounds , so what does that have to do with today ? What is being done is criminal right now not . What was done in history is just that history. Was it right ? Probably not in many cases . Am I or you responsble for what others do ? I sure hope not ! By what you are saying that you exspect that your children should be responsible for what you choose to do. So lets say you kill someone or commit some other crime are your children responsible? There are boundries and laws now that are in place because of past so we are supposed to just be lawless ? Lets see how long a the USA last with no laws as long as your somehting other than white! Hey that means it free to me to do as I please sinse your ancestors killed mine! Great give me your adress so I can seek my ancestors revenge , oh and by the way that would mean I can take revenge on Mexicans sinse half their blood is Spainard and they just about wiped out my people!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Whether you want to remember or not, whether you think it's currently important or not all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants but crusaders that came here with Genocide as their passports.

I don't know where you get your information from, but what you posted is a fallacy.

My great grandparents on my mother's side LEGALLY immigrated here from Germany, and my great grandparents on my father's side LEGALLY immigrated here from Ireland. Not all white Americans are decendents of the colonists.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Your argument is pro-imperialistic
If the people wanted to be completely free without law then that's their decision to live as such

what if it was a society of anarchists?
would you feel the same way?

That's just imposing your way of living on other people.
this is wrong!

That's exactly what illegal immigrants are, people that want to live free without law. The problem is that they are trying to do this in a country of people that don't want to live without law.

So aren't they in fact the ones that are in fact imposing their way of life on other people. So by your own words they are the ones that are wrong.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Whether you want to remember or not, whether you think it's currently important or not all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants but crusaders that came here with Genocide as their passports.

oh god. Ward Chruchill got an internet connection.

I don't recall early American settlers coming over here and getting free healthcare. I dont recall early American settlers coming over here while pregnant and popping out a kid so they can get free college education.

Originally posted by chise61
That's exactly what illegal immigrants are, people that want to live free without law. The problem is that they are trying to do this in a country of people that don't want to live without law.

really? how about the law that says that the hospital cannot turn them down when they show up sick, pregnant, etc.

We would be considered migrants, not immigrants.