So are you saying it's okay for people to illegally enter the United States because that's how our idiotic, power-hungry, land-hungry, ancestors did it?

Ok, and this is where this argument begins to lose water:

Even if most Americans are the sons and daughters of illegal immigrants, even under current law that makes them Americans. They were born here. And a few centuries later they now have their own country. The USA. The USA then, in turn, sets up government, laws of the land, so forth and so on. In these laws are stipulations that are meant to REGULATE the flow of immigrants to this nation, not to stop it. As a matter of fact illegal immigration, in some cases, is legal within Federal Law EXPLICITLY when political refugee status is extended to a particular group of people, Wet Foor Dry Foot Policy(Or by other means set forth depending on the country they're from) which grants you Refugee Probationary, Refugee Pursuant under document I-94. I happen to have one under Refugee Pursuant which means I have a despotic government on my back. This refugee status is open to many African countries, and Spanish speaking countries like Cuba, where my parents are from. Some European and Asian countries like North Korea are on this list of preferred defectors. (Kinda blows the racism thing out of the water doesn't it?)

This is not an all inclusive list, this is just the list used to grant I-94 political refugee status to ex-pats of some of the most despotic regimes in the world. Then there are the movers. People who are coming to America because they like it here a little better, or have moved their business here, so forth and so on.

These people fall under the category of Temporary Alien and must hold a passport with Visas and they must abide by the time slots given. This is directly tied to tax laws, national security laws, state and federal laws, and other laws concerning the regulation of housing, and social services typically reserved for Citizens and Legal permanent residents. The Temporary Alien can apply for an extension to his/her visa while simultaneously paying for and putting in the paparwork for Resident Alien status, or green card. This is subject to many stipulations. Such as interpol criminal background checks, supervisory periods, sponsorships, health record checks like vaccinations, and many other things. The most tracked and recorded people in this country are people like me.

Then there's the Illegal Alien. Who circumvent all of this. Is committing crimes like drug smuggling, kidnapping, murder, gang activity, all while breaking every single law we have to regulate how people come in to the country. Without these laws how long do you think it would be before what is going on in Mexico, becomes a daily occurrence here? Now not all illegal aliens are here to do harm. Some are here to work and have a better life and I cannot begrudge them this. I too know what it's like to live in a 3rd world country. But If i'm being tracked for the purposes of security and commerce, and he's not, that opens a hole in the system that may be allowing someone with ill intentions to enter the country. We do not live in a safe world.

This is not to say that we should erect the walls of society to keep people and culture out, this only serves to eventually keep people in. But we should be careful enough not to just let ANYONE in. There are laws for a reason. And those laws also protect that Rancher and his right to protect his family, his property, and his own life. They should not by sheer virtue of illegality, be allowed to sue.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 19-2-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 19-2-2009 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
It is not racist whatsoever
See as mentioned I said I am not saying that "HEY YOU, YOU ARE A DAMN IMMIGRANT"

That would be an insult

As I mentioned the people whom I am speaking of are descendants of settlers, which is okay as I already said.

I'll repeat my previous post you have so far ignored.

"Whether you want to remember or not, whether you think it's currently important or not all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants but crusaders that came here with Genocide as their passports." ModernAcademia

My response was and remains:
"Which part of " all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants" did I misunderstand. You quite clearly say that if you are caucasian then you are illegal. The rest are pretty legal, and I am assuming that includes your family?"

In the light of that statement you quite clearly state that only caucasians are illegal immigrants. Now let's see what your platform looks like.

According to the American Community Survey of the U.S. Census Bureau, the Asian Indian population in the United States grew from almost 1,679,000 in 2000 to 2,570,000 in 2007.

So maybe you should explain what makes these 1.7 million more legal than any of the caucasians?



[edit on 19-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

Op, you sound of a racist.

Number one, since when did the Indians of North America require a Passport?

My great-grandparents came here Legally in 1907. They learn English, fit into the american way of life, but still mantained their Dutch Heritage.

I really don't get what part of "Illegal" some of you don't get.

I bet up in snootville Montreal, (I had to spend most of my last summer there last year), you would just love 25 million illegal Mexicans taking over everything.
People in Montreal for the most part do not like American's. So get off your high horse.

This person is Living in Montreal. I guess nobody was living there before the French took it over. Yeah Right!

Originally posted by j2000
This person is Living in Montreal. I guess nobody was living there before the French took it over. Yeah Right!

Umm, I keep saying North America not just the U.S.A.
This includes Canada
Did you know that?


How could I expect americans to understand if I didn't understand myself?

Of the course the EXACT same thing applies to Canada!

See how your logic is flawed, you interpreted my statement on your same level of thinking. As if my level of thinking HAD to to based on where I am living or where I was born.

This is PRECISELY the problem with understanding, lack of empathy.
I empathize before I even begin to attempt to understand.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by ModernAcademia]

Yea, lets all forget that all the modern day Native Americans wiped out and took over the mound builders. That the mound builders and thier ancestors were from Asia. But hey, lets not get wrapped up in facts, should we.

btw, I do Plan on replying to everyone in this thread
or at least as many posts as possible

but at the same time wifey is making me do some sporadic chores

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Whether you want to remember or not, whether you think it's currently important or not all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants but crusaders that came here with Genocide as their passports.

So the logic where, your grandfathers crusaded over here, then killed, raped, murdered the natives and then stuck the rest of them in 'reservations', and now after settling here through amnesty(because children born here are citizens even though their parents are immigrants) you call other illegals immigrants when they are just more peaceful and hungry versions of you great grandfathers is so very sad and has no logic whatsoever.
If you went to the future and read this story in a book you would look at these people as horrible human beings. Before reading on please take a pause, close your eyes and pretend you are looking back at this as so.

Ok I'll bite.

The logic is that the people that came here had guns and the guts to use them. This is a conquered country and those that conquer get to make the laws. No amnesty for me thanks my forefathers conquered this land and took it as theirs. They conquered this land and then made laws to rule this land. The laws say you can emigrate here but you have to do it in the way the laws say. If you don't,peacefull or not,you are ILLEGAL. You don't like the laws; hey feel free to vote and change them.
Oh yeah the conquers that came here spawned the people that helped win WWI and WWII. That didn't help the world out at all did it?

I'm not understanding where you're going with this?

I don't see the rationality in saying it's okay for people to move to countries illegally, especially the United States, which previous posts have brilliantly explained the many ways in which one can legally live here.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
See how your logic is flawed, you interpreted my statement on your same level of thinking. As if my level of thinking HAD to to based on where I am living or where I was born.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by ModernAcademia]

Sorry but your post is racist and your responses are disingenious. Wherever you are tripped up you duck and dive.

1) You said all caucasians were illegals, you state that in your opening post; and
2) you never address the fact that black and asian indians all have problems with illegals; and
3) you never quite state that the 1.7 million asian indians like yourself are also not indigenious to America.;
4) You also conveniently omit to mention the approximately 100 000 white slaves that were shipped off from the UK to America in 1776.

The indentured servants who served a tidy little period of 4 to 7 years polishing the master's silver and china and then taking their place in colonial high society, were a minuscule fraction of the great unsung hundreds of thousands of White slaves who were worked to death in this country from the early l7th century onward.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

Originally posted by Mynaeris
Sorry but your post is racist and your responses are disingenious. Wherever you are tripped up you duck and dive.

1) You said all caucasians were illegals, you state that in your opening post; and
2) you never address the fact that black and asian indians all have problems with illegals; and
3) you never quite state that the 1.7 million asian indians like yourself are also not indigenious to America.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

1. All Caucasians are DESCENDANTS of illegals, therfore legal out of amnesty. You may try to force me to want that to be racist but it's not.
Because there's nothing wrong with that.

2. Yes they do, now go there and see how racist they are towards them and if people would respond as many that in that ranchers thread. See if an entire country of Indians would react the same as you do towards immigrants. Secondly Indians live in India, it was not colonized by indians making indians themselves immigrants or descandents of immigrants but who then grew up to later speak against immigrants.

3. Yes my and I don't speak to bad against immigrants. If I did that would be bad.
If I did PLUS my ancestors came here through genocide and I later I would insult future immigrants coming here in a more peaceful manner than my ancestors did that would be even worse, illogical and shameful.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
1. All Caucasians are DESCENDANTS of illegals, therfore legal out of amnesty. You may try to force me to want that to be racist but it's not.
Because there's nothing wrong with that.

Untrue. There are many who immigrated after the US became a country and are thus not descendants of illegals. There are many who have immigrated within the last 100 years legally due to various reasons and are thus not descendants of illegals.

Originally posted by shooterbrody
Ok I'll bite.

The logic is that the people that came here had guns and the guts to use them. This is a conquered country and those that conquer get to make the laws. No amnesty for me thanks my forefathers conquered this land and took it as theirs. They conquered this land and then made laws to rule this land. The laws say you can emigrate here but you have to do it in the way the laws say. If you don't,peacefull or not,you are ILLEGAL. You don't like the laws; hey feel free to vote and change them.
Oh yeah the conquers that came here spawned the people that helped win WWI and WWII. That didn't help the world out at all did it?

I don't even know who to respond to such a Pro-Imperialist post on ATS LOL

I'm sorry but I don't consider this an argument
do others?
If more than 2 people agree with this on this site I will respond to you

'We are the sons of oppressors now obey us"
ok that fictional quote was maybe going too far lol

but still, if more than 2 ppl here agree with you then I will respond

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
1. All Caucasians are DESCENDANTS of illegals, therfore legal out of amnesty. You may try to force me to want that to be racist but it's not.

You aren't making any sense here. Words are supposed to have meaning - so all the immigrants that came after the initial annexation of America are illegals too? How about the guy that got his citizenship last week is he illegal if he is caucasian?

AND you missed my later addition:

"4) You also conveniently omit to mention the approximately 100 000 white slaves that were shipped off from the UK to America in 1776." AND

The indentured servants who served a tidy little period of 4 to 7 years polishing the master's silver and china and then taking their place in colonial high society, were a minuscule fraction of the great unsung hundreds of thousands of White slaves who were worked to death in this country from the early l7th century onward.

Quite honestly your "knowledge" of the American history is pretty shady and selective.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
See if an entire country of Indians would react the same as you do towards immigrants. Secondly Indians live in India, it was not colonized by indians making indians themselves immigrants or descandents of immigrants but who then grew up to later speak against immigrants.

Let's not move this discussion to what happens in Kashmir.



[edit on 19-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

hahahaha
You can't respond because what I posted is the TRUTH.
It really doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me. I did not say I agreed with all that has happened over the last 300 years; I just pointed out the facts you chose to leave out.

Originally posted by Jenna
Untrue. There are many who immigrated after the US became a country and are thus not descendants of illegals. There are many who have immigrated within the last 100 years legally due to various reasons and are thus not descendants of illegals.

Absolutey true!

But more don't conform to your post
An if a majority of people that make up the "anti-illegal-immigrant' sentiment DO conform to the 'descendant of illegals' then know where you live.

Know the history of your land.

If ten years from now there's only Israelis living in Palestine then would you say the same to a hispanic trying to illegally settle there?
If so then that is flawed thinking.

Originally posted by shooterbrody
hahahaha
You can't respond because what I posted is the TRUTH.
It really doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me. I did not say I agreed with all that has happened over the last 300 years; I just pointed out the facts you chose to leave out.

Actually I think I did respond
Your post was pro-imperialism

that says more than a 3 page reply

helppp

clicked reply twice

[edit on 19-2-2009 by ModernAcademia]