Illegal Immigrant - White Caucasian Settlers - Let Truth Be Spoken

ModernAcademia-

I won't apologize for or stop to defend my "whiteness", presence in this country, ancestry, or history. The Mexican illegal immigrants (invaders, really) criminals and yahoos need to go back where they came from. I don't want them dragging down my community with their inferior morals, I don't want them burdening our welfare system. I don't want them conversing in a foreign language in public, which I believe to be staccato and abrupt compared to English, which is graceful and lyrical at its best. I believe many of them consider themselves to be superior to the people whose country they illegally occupy.

I like my language, my culture, my race, and I won't be dragged into the trap of defending these.

The essential problem is that most Americans are law-abiding, thoughtful, empathetic, decent people, following the rules and laws, whereas the illegal Mexicans invert all of these qualities. In short we follow two different value sets. What if, for a moment, the illegals became like us? What if they went straight, became American citizens, or just went home? The world, and my neighborhood, would be a nicer place.

On the other hand, what if we as Americans took on the values of the illegal Mexicans? If we pitched all of our values and just went head-to-head with them, there would stacks of dead illegals in the streets, burning houses. In short there would be a race war and we would win. Is that what we want? That could eventually happen, if a more reasonable solution isn't conceived of first.

The people who are most opposed to illegal immigration argue quite logically that it is unfair for people to enter and work in a country illegally, avoiding many of the responsibilities, like taxes, that befall the legal citizens of the country, while at the same time reaping the benefits, such as jobs and healthcare, provided by the country and the citizenry who finance it through through tax money and commerce.
The people on the other side of the argument are mainly arguing for leniency and acceptance, citing the poverty of Mexico, the desire for better conditions in which to support an individual or family superceding the obligation to follow U.S. immigration and naturalization laws.
This is an argument that has gone on for 18 pages, and is showing no sign of making any progress in any direction. In the course of the debate, it seems to me that it would be beneficial for both sides to consider what I believe to be the true underlying causes of this immigration mess.
First of all, why has Mexico become such a difficult place to live? In 1994, Clinton enacted the North American Trade Agreement to encourage economic growth in Mexico by lifting tariffs on the imports of Mexican goods, or so he said. What happened instead, and what happens basically everytime we enter into these "free trade" deals with foreign countries, is that a mass of American and multinational corporations flock to the country, to exploit it for cheap labor, land, and lax environmental laws and not have to get taxed for shipping products right back over the border. The quality of life in Mexico didn't improve one bit. Workers, who used to work smaller farms and businesses that actually benefitted their local economies, were now forced to work for multinational companies. The products they manufactured and agriculture they produced were mostly shipped off to other countries, and most of the profits were reaped by the wealthy, foreign shareholders of the corporations. The corporations made major profits while the workers got the shaft.
Meanwhile, the U.S. lost somewhere around 350,000 jobs as a result of that one agreement, as major companies hopped over the Rio Grande, only to ship their products right back across the border, while the only Americans to profit from the deal were the wealthy elite who owned the companies.
It is this kind of dealing, combined with its monolothic hidden counterpart, drug trafficking, which is the overall cause of poverty and social instability in Mexico, as was evidenced by the Zapatista rebellion in Chiapas beginning January 1st, 1994, the same day as the enactment of NAFTA.
So, these are the conditions that make illegal immigration such a tantalizing prospect for Mexican workers, and they were brought about in a joint effort by the U.S., Mexican, and Canadian governments, all working at the behest and for the benefit of the financial elite, to the detriment of working people on both sides of the border.
Now, the next question to address is, why aren't any measures being taken to prevent this immigration from happening? Weren't the citizens of the southwest promised a "virtual border fence" of watchtowers, national guardsmen, night vision and all sorts of high tech gadgetry to stop the influx of illegal immigrants? What ever happened to that fence? From what I've heard, a few towers were put up, and they're empty. Correct me if I'm wrong
And, if the government were really opposed to illegal immigration, why would they grant citizenship or amnesty to the tens of millions of illegal immigrants that have entered this country, completely invalidating the laws they themselves promised the American people to enact. Why, in this day and age of heightened national security, have no measures been taken to secure the borders? I'm running out of room, so I'll answer that later. It has to do with Bob, from my earlier post.

I know the OP at least will consider what I'm about to say, racist but here goes anyway.

How many people are tired of hearing
"Press 1 to continue in English"

If I were to travel to another country, I would not expect people to print everything in English. I would make it a point to learn the language, at least on a basic level, before even going on vacation to a non-english speaking country let alone live there.

We cater to criminals too much in this country.

Here's a great example. Until recently, if you were an illegal alien, you could get a legal drivers license in Michigan. Luckily this has recently changed but why should this have ever been possible?

I'd like to add one final quote
"Never allow convictions of the ignorant to overwhelm logic, reason and common sense". -jfj123-

[edit on 21-2-2009 by jfj123]

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Premise: Violent History Only Applies to Caucasians

ModernAcademia has managed to take a very select amount of non-data and isolate only the elements needed to label an entire group of people racists. If that weren't enough, this poster then spreads the blame/shame across generations in a effort to advance an agenda that clearly has nothing to do with a citizen protecting his property along the Mexican border.

What astounds me the most is some of you buy into this.

I am of Onondaga and Caucasian decent... and before any of you “Humanists” table the suggestion, there was no rape or force involved in my family history.

My Caucasian and Onondaga ancestors both participated in war, took property that belonged to someone else, bought and sold guns, and generally participated in the activities ModernAcademia blames only on the Caucasians. Convenient.

If you starred ModernAcademia did you forget the following facts?

All races have a history of the same activities ModernAcademia blames solely on those with white skin and European heritage. American Indian Nations committed the same atrocities outlined in the OP during tribal warfare and against the Caucasians So have the Japanese, Chinese, Africans, Inuits, Russians, Dutch, Vikings, and all other ethnicities/races.

And just how is it that when someone intentionally isolates a specific group of people based on skin color and heritage, and then applies several layers of poorly defined name calling and hatred, that doing so is not a blatantly racist act? ModernAcademia clearly fits this profile, as do those who starred his OP.

ModernAcademia's agenda is obviously liberal, anti-white, pro illegal alien (as long as he has a need for them to “prove” his points) and anti-American. He managed to cloud the issue with hefty spoonfuls hatred thinly disguised as meaningless liberal dribble.

Could this be the real issue? ModernAcadementia failed to table the issue of being INDIVIDUALLY RESPONSIBLE by not breaking the law. If I cross the border from the USA to Canada without the proper documentation I will be arrested, detained, investigated and fined. Illegal aliens get a pass on this behavior.

My Caucasian ancestors would find ModernAcademia intolerant and my Onondaga ancestors would laugh at his mere existence while planning for their next meal.





[edit on 2009/21/2 by Marmota monax] (Changed "post by" header info)


[edit on 2009/21/2 by Marmota monax]

The entity that I called "Bob" in the analogy that was used in earlier posts was a reference to the private interests that benefit from the exploitation of Mexico and the mass illegal immigration that has resulted. These are the same private interests that push for the enactment of Free Trade Zones, and later "monetary unions" like the one that currently exists in Europe.
The financial elite want cheap labor for maximum profitability. To achieve this, they can move to Mexico and exploit cheap labor there, or they can use the massive pool of illegal labor that already exists in the U.S. An example of the latter is Del Monte foods of Oregon, one of the biggest fruit packagers in the U.S., that was raided by the feds and found to be employing somewhere around 800 illegal workers in one factory.
The continuing employment of massive amounts of illegal workers in industrial, service, and agricultural industries makes it more difficult for legal workers to compete. The illegals work at lower rates, and are able to make better use of their wages because they do not have to fork over a substantial amount of their earnings to the government like legal workers.
This creates a backlash that will force legal workers to accept less pay and fewer benefits in order to compete with the illegal labor, which of course is exactly what the corporate owners want. In simple terms, the more illegals that are working the united states, the more legals will be forced to "work like Mexicans."
The ideal situation for the financial elite who run the multinational corporations, would be for the entirety of North America to more closely resemble what Mexico looks like today, a massive pool of cheap labor, lax regulations, and easily managed corrupt politicians to be exploited for maximum profitability.
This is why, while people on the local levels are fighting illegal immigration with guns and jeeps, the U.S. and Mexican governments are all but explicitly encouraging it, especially with the decision to grant amnesty to the millions of illegals already here. For the financial elite, the sovereignty of the United States and Mexico, with their differing laws and regulations, and the border that separates the two countries, and the cultural differences between the people on either side, all serve as barriers to maximum profitability and must be removed - the end result being one North American superstate of cheap, exploitable, labor. It might be called the North American Union, and its currency might be called the Amero. Its almost here.

Here is a link to an article that supports the statements I made above, and also focuses on the drug trade which is playing such a major role in the problems there.
www.alternet.org...
Here is a quote:
"Arguably, NAFTA is to blame for what could be Mexico's impending destabilization. The largest surge ever in both legal and unauthorized Mexican migration to the U.S. began after the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement took effect.

Sociologist James Russell finds that the percentage of all North America's Mexican-origin persons living in the United States jumped from 13.6 percent to 20.5 percent between 1990 and 2005. Russell argues that "NAFTA allowed tariff-free imports to flood into Mexico, taking markets away from many Mexican peasants and manufacturers. With work no longer available, displaced peasants and workers joined in increasing numbers the migrant route north into the United States."

The privatization of Mexico's communal peasant lands -- the ejidos -- was another NAFTA-related measure that helped force hundreds of thousands from their traditional rural communities. In these same years, Mexico's narco economy exploded, the trafficking of coc aine and growing of opium and marijuana filling the vacuum left by the evaporation of the market for domestic maize and beans."

The demonization of the illegal immigrants, and the arguing back and forth of whether they should and shouldn't be here and what their rights should be, are pointless and do nothing to solve the problem. Only by addressing and eliminating the root causes of illegal immigration can we expect the problem to ever be solved.

It's a good thing I didn't hold my breath awaiting a thoughtful response that actually addressed the points being made by ModernAcademia's opponents in this thread.

I'll leave you with but one more point that's already been stated before. Native American's aren't native. Even if they were, the majority of them were nomadic, which precludes them from owning land had they even had a concept of ownership of land or national sovereignty.

I agree that some extremely horrific things happened to the native Americans during and after the European expeditions of the 1500s. Genocide to be sure, disease, slavery, etc. African Americans also suffered greatly in a genocide that was arguably as bad as the one foisted against the Indians. Greed and lust for gold was the prime motivator. It still is for outsourcing, cheap labor, globalization, and class warfare. What is worrying to me, is that everyone has this grudge they are carrying around for something that happened to their ancestors over a hundred years ago that gives them cart Blanch to some claim or right. This is no longer going to work. The earth is over populated. We complain about "illegals" and completely disregard what brings them here, crushing poverty in Latin America and other locales that forces them to travel sometimes thousands of miles at great risk to themselves and their families, just to have a chance at a wage that will allow them to survive. They come to the US, and in some cases as a result US workers are displaced and endure hardships as a result, which creates valid animosity. The "illegals" react with animosity in kind, and its a vicious cycle that wont soon end. What I think we need, is a new way of thinking by ALL OF US. IE, its unacceptable for ANY people to starve, their children to not receive adequate medical care, their elderly to not be taken care of, regardless of ethnicity, geographical claim to some patch of land, nationalistic entitlement, etc. I think the goal of the 21st century should be EVERYBODY MAKES IT, not, "F" you, I got mine. Why don't we insist on a decent standard of living for EVERYONE? Why dont we DEMAND IT? Regardless of whose ancestor did what or lived where. IF we defined such a HUMAN RIGHT, over time all the hatred and racism and ethnic grudges would start to melt away because they would become irrelevant. Letting anyone be exploited, letting anyones children starve or die from disease, letting anyone be thrown out in the street because they cant find work, is an affront to all of us, the effects of these things radiate out in all directions like ripples in a pond affecting all of us. We pay whether we realize it or not. So why not find a way to combat these things collectively for the common good? The powers that be will oppose this, they want us vulnerable and hating each other, because it weakens all of us, and makes their control easier to facilitate. We have to fight it from the bottom up, in the form of each of us making a concous effort to treat everyone we meet like a HUMAN BEING.If everyone did this, Latinos, Whites, African Americans, Native Americans, it would start to turn things around. I am not saying get in a circle around a campfire and sing KUMBAYA, I am saying try to take into account that everyone you meet is a human being. Try to treat them as such. At first they may not respond in the same way,but over time they will. Then we have a chance.

God Bless and good luck to us all (humanity)

Originally posted by Marmota monax
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Premise: Violent History Only Applies to Caucasians

ModernAcademia has managed to take a very select amount of non-data and isolate only the elements needed to label an entire group of people racists. If that weren't enough, this poster then spreads the blame/shame across generations in a effort to advance an agenda that clearly has nothing to do with a citizen protecting his property along the Mexican border.

What astounds me the most is some of you buy into this.

I am of Onondaga and Caucasian decent... and before any of you “Humanists” table the suggestion, there was no rape or force involved in my family history.

My Caucasian and Onondaga ancestors both participated in war, took property that belonged to someone else, bought and sold guns, and generally participated in the activities ModernAcademia blames only on the Caucasians. Convenient.

If you starred ModernAcademia did you forget the following facts?

All races have a history of the same activities ModernAcademia blames solely on those with white skin and European heritage. American Indian Nations committed the same atrocities outlined in the OP during tribal warfare and against the Caucasians So have the Japanese, Chinese, Africans, Inuits, Russians, Dutch, Vikings, and all other ethnicities/races.

And just how is it that when someone intentionally isolates a specific group of people based on skin color and heritage, and then applies several layers of poorly defined name calling and hatred, that doing so is not a blatantly racist act? ModernAcademia clearly fits this profile, as do those who starred his OP.

ModernAcademia's agenda is obviously liberal, anti-white, pro illegal alien (as long as he has a need for them to “prove” his points) and anti-American. He managed to cloud the issue with hefty spoonfuls hatred thinly disguised as meaningless liberal dribble.

Could this be the real issue? ModernAcadementia failed to table the issue of being INDIVIDUALLY RESPONSIBLE by not breaking the law. If I cross the border from the USA to Canada without the proper documentation I will be arrested, detained, investigated and fined. Illegal aliens get a pass on this behavior.

My Caucasian ancestors would find ModernAcademia intolerant and my Onondaga ancestors would laugh at his mere existence while planning for their next meal.





[edit on 2009/21/2 by Marmota monax] (Changed "post by" header info)


[edit on 2009/21/2 by Marmota monax]

It was a sad day when I realized this didn't go without saying.

OP: Try all you want, bud, but you can't justify your race being where it's at compared to ours. Keep in mind tho that power is all cyclical, and our being on top isn't conducive to superiority but rather it's just our turn on the calendar. I've seen too many people come from where you're from and make themselves and their families fortunes by our way of doing things to believe for one second that this is anything more than an elequoent attempt to justify your inferiority complex. Your cry for help has been answered.

changed explain to justify.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by heyo]

reply to post by danielsil18
A, effin, Man!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by WhamBamTYM
The Mexican illegal immigrants (invaders, really) criminals and yahoos need to go back where they came from.

Invaders?
What if I asked you what is the U.S.A in iraq?
Are they invaders?
Do you know the definition of a insurgent?

Originally posted by WhamBamTYM
I don't want them dragging down my community with their inferior m\orals, I don't want them burdening our welfare system. I don't want them conversing in a foreign language in public, which I believe to be staccato and abrupt compared to English, which is graceful and lyrical at its best. I believe many of them consider themselves to be superior to the people whose country they illegally occupy.

How many times do you say YeeeHAWWWwW in one day?
inferior morals, you are funny. hahaha
how about us and our superior morals go invade a country for oil holmes?

you don't like them conversing in a foreign language?
I don't like you screaming YEeeHAAWwWWWW in the grocery store line.

dude, you are a disgrace to whoever agrees with you!
go finish your canned beans and sausage.

On a related note, the CBC Hockey Night in Canada just broadcast nationwide in punjabi...........English, french, and punjabi.....we're soooooo evil. I'm not kidding btw.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by WhamBamTYM
The Mexican illegal immigrants (invaders, really) criminals and yahoos need to go back where they came from.

Invaders?
What if I asked you what is the U.S.A in iraq?
Are they invaders?
Do you know the definition of a insurgent?

You certainly know how to derail the topic in your own thread now don't you?

Originally posted by WhamBamTYM
I don't want them dragging down my community with their inferior m\orals, I don't want them burdening our welfare system. I don't want them conversing in a foreign language in public, which I believe to be staccato and abrupt compared to English, which is graceful and lyrical at its best. I believe many of them consider themselves to be superior to the people whose country they illegally occupy.

How many times do you say YeeeHAWWWwW in one day?
inferior morals, you are funny. hahaha
how about us and our superior morals go invade a country for oil holmes?

I'm sorry but isn't your own thread about illegal immigration?

you don't like them conversing in a foreign language?
I don't like you screaming YEeeHAAWwWWWW in the grocery store line.

Why can't you actually answer questions instead of trying to deflect everything ? If you didn't want to actually have a logical conversation about illegal immigration, why did you even bother starting this thread?

dude, you are a disgrace to whoever agrees with you!
go finish your canned beans and sausage.

And yet more personal attacks. Didn't you get upset when you claimed I was getting personal with you? Well what would that make you? hmm...I'm searching for the word. ......oh what could it be...... OH YEAH HYPOCRITE !

[edit on 21-2-2009 by jfj123]

There is only one race. The human one.
All of you are posting on a conspiracy thread, therefore you all feel something is wrong with reality, or you're here to placate your factions threat.
If everything I have read, or watched, is false, chalk it up, to me being gullible.
My point being, we are all one, and we all need to be on the same wagon.
Yeah I'm a fat anglo, living off the sweat of others, In far away lands, whipped by Wal-Mart, and Corporate America.
I have a place to sleep, cable, broadband, heat, and the ability to cook without using fire.
Does any of you know, anyone who has come from parts of the U.S. and or the world, that lacks these comforts?
Illegal haters, whine about the constitution, reality, our U.S. government has been wiping it's proverbial a## with it for, oh, about 70 years.
I befriend an illegal, he or she, has nothing(maybe starving kids back home), find out they are not gang affiliated, but for(effing money reasons, which are always the way) can't get the permission to live or work here and become deported simply makes me sick.
I'm not pushing any agenda, good people, are good humans.
When I had shatteringly hard times, these humans showed me more humanity, than my own family.
Peace.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Except that the U.S. soldiers in Iraq are not going to Iraq for economic opportunity, few wanted to go there in the first place. The U.S. soldiers who went to Iraq, against all odds, have done a tremendous job of building a democracy where once a brutal dictatorship maintained a ruthless control. The decision to invade Iraq was always extremely controversial, and a great many people in the U.S. opposed the plan, and only went along when confronted with false intel. Iraq has nothing relevant to do with the topic at hand.

Ah, but there is little doubt that racists like you wish for U.S. soldiers to fail in Iraq, because if the U.S. succeeds in building a democracy in Iraq, it will be very bad for racists like yourself, to promote your agenda to destroy Western Democracy. You aren't going to support a Democratic government in Iraq, even though it will be far better for the people of Iraq.



[edit on 21-2-2009 by poet1b]

Threads like these make me sad. Only because we are all the same under our skin. It doesn't matter what color the people were that came to whatever land mass first because we are ALL related to those people. Black, white, brown, red, yellow, green, pink, purple, blue.... these are petty and ridiculous labels we humans need to shed once and for all. We all have a right to be here, there... wherever. We are HUMANS OF EARTH DAMMIT! Do we have regional and cultural uniqueness? YES! Does it entitle us to claim ownership of a region? I don't think so. I really don't.

We need to be brave for once and let go of the things that divided us. That which has divided humanity into these petty labels for each other. The rewards will be 10 fold! We can finally close the doors to a great ignorance holing back the human race and open a new door that will allow us insight into some of our greatest and most wonderful potentials.

reply to post by K.G.B.


I think you should move down to Mexico and see how you are treated, and how welcome you feel, or any other of these third world nations. See how good your survival rate is. Of course you will blame yourself for the murderer and the robber who chooses to take you life at the first opportunity, but they will do the same to their own kind, which is why their nations remain so backwards.

Originally posted by poet1b

Except that the U.S. soldiers in Iraq are not going to Iraq for economic opportunity, few wanted to go there in the first place.

Oil is not economic opportunity?

Originally posted by poet1b

The U.S. soldiers who went to Iraq, against all odds, have done a tremendous job of building a democracy where once a brutal dictatorship maintained a ruthless control. The decision to invade Iraq was always extremely controversial, and a great many people in the U.S. opposed the plan, and only went along when confronted with false intel. Iraq has nothing relevant to do with the topic at hand.

the relevance of Iraq in this thread is colonialism
i've mentioned Iraq in this thread many times

on media ATS, AtsMediaPro made a great 2 part video about war
did you watch it?

I suggest you watch it and then come back

I'm glad for you that you are patriotic and support a war that is bankrupting your country, that is only increasing hatred against the U.S., and is making elected officials richer.

Originally posted by K.G.B.
I befriend an illegal, he or she, has nothing(maybe starving kids back home), find out they are not gang affiliated, but for(effing money reasons, which are always the way) can't get the permission to live or work here and become deported simply makes me sick.

So what is the person that's here legally going to do for a job now ? Because that illegal stole a job from someone who is supposed to be here.

I'm not pushing any agenda, good people, are good humans.

Of course you're pushing an agenda. You're an illegal sympathizer. You take more stock in making sure that illegals are ok then your own countrymen. Ever hear the term, mow your own yard before you mow your neighbors?

When I had shatteringly hard times, these humans showed me more humanity, than my own family.
Peace.

And when I was on hard times it was because of those humans. You see, illegals have ruined the construction industry and all those legitimate workers that are involved in it. Illegals are criminals and anyone that hires them are also criminals and should be dealt with accordingly.

The Iraq war is bad, many of us knew this from the beginning and wanted no part of it. But we as a people had no choice in the matter, it was going to happen no matter what public sentiment was or is now.

Not all war is colonialism, we as a people are not flooding Iraq with a population of needy people and taking away their resources.

On one hand I can fully understand why so many people come here from mexico for the chance to have a better life and take better care of their family.

But along with those who come for those reasons and work hard to make a good life there is a large element who are living off the system and the american taxpayers who are already having a tough time as it is.

Not to mention the criminal element. The amount of illegals that my husband catches shoplifting is staggering, and that is only at a single store.

And as to the origins of "caucasian" Americans. You seem to still think that we are all descendents of the original settlers and explorers while completely ignoring the mish mash that most of us really are.
My mother's family is from England and Belgium, both of my grandparents came over here as teenagers during WWII. Most of their family still lives in England.
My dads family has been here for a very long time, and in oklahoma since the beginning of both indian territory and statehood. My great grandmother was the first female real estate agent in the state. They are of English, Irish, and Cherokee descent going back for ages with who knows what else thrown in.

But most of all they are American through and through.

Then there is me, I am adopted and of Scottish, french and Native American Descent.

So while we might all have what is considered caucasian features there is a difference in heritage culture and history within my family that is quite complicated and beautiful.

Your broad painting of all White people with a single broad brush is ignorant and comes off hateful in this thread.



[edit on 21-2-2009 by gluetrap]