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Illegal Immigrant - White Caucasian Settlers - Let Truth Be Spoken

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posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

fine i said border security is important
but instead of speaking against illegals(human beings) why don't you speak of weak border security or corporations that benefit from illegal immigration?

Now we're back to the locked door analogy.
You want to blame people who don't put enough locks on their doors, instead of the CRIMINALS who break and enter. What kind of screwed up logic is this?


focus on the root of the problem not the symptoms

So if someone breaks into your house and steals all your stuff, we shouldn't focus on catching them, we should focus on what drove them to steal and not worry about their crimes? This is bush logic !




posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
1) I believe in stronger border security while you all only speak in a derogatory manner against illegals


I have addressed this point specifically, and you've ignored me.

Let's take your sentence and apply it on a more personal level.

1) I believe in stronger home security while you all only speak in a derogatory manner against home invaders.

Same difference.

As I have previously stated, it is not my responsibility to prevent other people from committing crimes. Yes, prudence and necessity dictate that I have locks on my doors and a "black dog" alarm system. (Which is a real black dog
)

However, should I choose to have no locks at all and leave my doors wide open, anyone who enters my home and trashes it will still be a criminal, and it was still THEIR choice to commit a criminal act.

In America, some of us still believe in personal responsibility. It's not my job to make everyone be good, it's everyone's job to make appropriate choices and obey the law if they want to live in this society. What part of that don't you get?

Furthermore, your suggestion that "stronger border security" will solve the problem is bogus. If people get stronger locks, the criminals get better lockpicks. If people get better alarm systems, the burglars learn how to circumvent them. If people get tougher fences, the robbers get bigger bolt cutters.

If the US spends a bunch of money to put up better fences, they'll cut holes in them or figure out how to get over them. If border patrols are increased to the point that people can't get through, the so-called crossing quides will just start shooting the border patrol to make holes. Maybe the US should try electric fences? I can see that now .. pictures of fried "immigrants" all over the news and one more reason to hate Americans. Maybe you'd like it better if the US border became another Berlin wall, with people getting shot for trying to cross. Yeah, that's being "kinder" to the "immigrants."

Let's look at the real, bottom line, CAUSE of the problem. People want to leave their countries (they aren't all Mexicans ya know) and come to the US. Why? Presumably because the US is a better place to live than their country. And, whose fault is that? Is it America's responsibility to lower their standards of living so it won't look so appealing? Or should it, just possibly, be the responsibility of those other countries to take care of their own people so that they don't want to come to America?

How about that? Isn't that the REAL solution, and by the by the most reasonable and humane solution? Put pressure on MEXICO (and the other countries) to improve standards of living until their citizens are no longer so desperate to leave that it causes them to become lawbreakers and invaders. Problem solved, and nobody got hurt.

But no, it's easier to run down the big dog, the easy target and the world's favorite visible villain, for lack of border security and bigotry against "immigrants."




posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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I have been reading ATS for over two years and never once felt the need to register to post...I finally have.

Racism makes me sick, and the op is clearly racist. He makes racist statement after racist statement and then when someone calls him out on it he conveniently said he never said that, even having others quote his previous post where he said exactly what he claims he didn't.

Yes, I am white. No, I am not responsible for what my ancestors may or may not have done. I live in America, and I am white. According to the op I guess that means I stole this land. I guess I'm responsible for that candy bar my late grandfather stole when he was a kid too.

I have had to deal with racism all my life, and this is CLEARLY another example of racism by the op.

NEWSFLASH!! It's not only people who are non-caucasian who have to deal with racism, as clearly evidenced by the op's repeated racist remarks. I have also had to deal with signs posted by my house directed towards me and my family to "Go Home N---- lovers!" When we lived in Texas and my step-dad was black, and my two youngest sisters are mixed. This feels absolutely no different.

But I guess it's ok since the OP isn't white. I guess calling my ancestors genocidal because I'm white and I live in America is just fine. It doesn't matter if they were involved or not, hell I'm white, and I live in America, my ancestors must be genocidal!

You and people like you make me sick. You are nothing but a prejudiced, racist bigot. Hello kettle? This is the pot...



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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Funny - - I thought the original post was about understanding the full concept of this issue from all sides.

History
Hummanism
Illegal
Legal



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


That's weird because it seemed to me the original post was inflammatory and racist, right down to the very title of the thread blaming white people.

If he just wanted people to understand both sides of the subject, I think he could have posted a much more appropriate title and content.

Perhaps something such as:

Think of it from the illegal immigrants side; they're most likely fleeing their home country to get a better life for them and their family, quite possibly fleeing from reprehensible living conditions and are doing anything they can for a better life.

Who could possibly argue that the most likely reason for immigrating to America is a better life? Instead, he goes on to say how white people are hypocrits and that their ancestors were genocidal.

I suppose there isn't a single non-white person who thinks that border security should be tightened up and we shouldn't have millions of illegal immigrants come over to the states every year right? It's only white people right? I welcome anyone who wants to come over legally, that is their right, and I don't think anyone can take away their right of pursuit of a better life. If you want to come here and make a better life for yourself, great, do it. But why in the world should my taxes pay for their kids to go to school? Why should they get all the advantages that being an American offers without having to deal with any of the disadvantages, such as paying taxes?

FYI Mr. High and Mighty white hater OP, white people were NOT the only ones who colonized America in the early days...they just won the fight. Racism must be defeated by education; please...go get some!

Here is just a tiny bit of information so that you can at least start throwing some other races under the bus too, even though the people who perpetrated this act are all long dead:

en.wikipedia.org...

So even though you would seem to think that most of the evils of the world are the fault of white america, well that just ain't true buddy. Here is also some more literature I suggest you check out that has quite a few facts and information on immigration and immigration issues:

en.wikipedia.org...

Just a quick glance through that article lets me know "In 2006, a total of 1,266,264 immigrants became legal permanent residents of the United States". Almost 1.3 million people...LEGALLY. Wow, sure sounds like we're turning everyone away and so they have no choice but to enter illegally.

Again, I am not even here to really address thet illegal immigration issue, more the OP's racism.

I wasn't even alive during the civil rights era, much less back when America was founded, how in the world can I be held responsible? I suppose you expect me to travel back in time and stop my ancestors (if indeed they were even involved) from doing what they did?

Guess what captain white america hater, even if I had, it would have just been Spain taking over the Americas. Then at least I guess you would be in here blaming all the Spaniards instead of whites...



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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To any of you taking sides and bickering about this subject....

The borders between us do not exist.
Thus, countries do not exist.
Therefore, legal and illegal immigrants do not exist.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities
 


Perhaps not, but racism certainly does.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by Pimpish
 


On the contrary, I could argue that since their are so many forms of "racism" and definitions of "racism", one could conclude it does not exist as well.

My point was: Why argue over any topic such as these, when you realize we should all just harmonize and empathize?

EDIT: Of course toleration is required, and realizing we are all human, prone to error no matter what.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by Unlimitedpossibilities]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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This is truly the most pointless thread. A tyhread posted by an asian indian guy living in Canada accusing caucasians of being illegals by some stretch of his imagination. The tragedy is that although he never actually addresses any of the counter points in any manner, this racist thread is now 18 pages long.

He has in effect proven what AG Holder said "americans are cowards".
White Americahns have been neutered - every time they speak about anybody who isn't white the other person gets offended and call you racist. And you crawl back into your hole. Instead of setting Mr ModernAcademia on his merry little way, white Americans will keep justifying their existence. The OP doesn't care what you respond just THAT you respond.

This is my last response on this tiresome thread.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by Mynaeris]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities
To any of you taking sides and bickering about this subject....

The borders between us do not exist.
Thus, countries do not exist.
Therefore, legal and illegal immigrants do not exist.



Uh, unfortunately there are real borders that do indeed exist.
Because of this, illegal aliens who cross over those borders, ILLEGALLY, exist.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities
reply to post by Pimpish
 


On the contrary, I could argue that since their are so many forms of "racism" and definitions of "racism", one could conclude it does not exist as well.

My point was: Why argue over any topic such as these, when you realize we should all just harmonize and empathize?

EDIT: Of course toleration is required, and realizing we are all human, prone to error no matter what.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by Unlimitedpossibilities]


The reason we argue about this is because some people don't want to obey reasonable laws.
We argue about this because people want to take things that others have worked hard for.
We argue about this because people think that if you sneak into the country, you can abuse it's system at the expense of those who have worked within the system.

Just an FYI



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Pimpish
reply to post by Annee
 


That's weird because it seemed to me the original post was inflammatory and racist, right down to the very title of the thread blaming white people.



I didn't get that at all.

And I'm as WASP as you can get.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Mynaeris
This is truly the most pointless thread. A tyhread posted by an asian indian guy living in Canada accusing caucasians of being illegals by some stretch of his imagination. The tragedy is that although he never actually addresses any of the counter points in any manner, this racist thread is now 18 pages long.

He has in effect proven what AG Holder said "americans are cowards". Instead of setting Mr ModernAcademia on his merry little way, white Americans will keep justifying their existence. The OP doesn't care what you respond just THAT you respond.

This is my last response on this tiresome thread.


Sometimes it's more important to educate ignorance then ignore it.
Scared people can be dangerous.
Ignorant people can be extremely dangerous.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities
To any of you taking sides and bickering about this subject....

The borders between us do not exist.
Thus, countries do not exist.
Therefore, legal and illegal immigrants do not exist.



Uh, unfortunately there are real borders that do indeed exist.
Because of this, illegal aliens who cross over those borders, ILLEGALLY, exist.


Actually, the earth is a "spherical" object that has land mass and water. The border between lands were created by humans (excluding what is defined by mountainous regions, rivers, lakes, etc.

"I decree this land is named __________! and we are therefore deemed 'English' people.", etc).



[edit on 21-2-2009 by Unlimitedpossibilities]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 



Originally posted by jfj123
The reason we argue about this is because some people don't want to obey reasonable laws.
We argue about this because people want to take things that others have worked hard for.
We argue about this because people think that if you sneak into the country, you can abuse it's system at the expense of those who have worked within the system.

Just an FYI


I understand what you are saying from a relative perspective.

However, for me to agree with you, we need to stipulate on what the words "reasonable", "fairness", and "justice" mean.

My point is we need to start thinking more 4 dimensionally if we are to ever end this perpetual debate. If you do not believe in dimensions, then what I mean is, we need to broaden our scope to the furthest perspective possible, and then take action. Very intricate I think and difficult indeed.


[edit on 21-2-2009 by Unlimitedpossibilities]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities
To any of you taking sides and bickering about this subject....

The borders between us do not exist.
Thus, countries do not exist.
Therefore, legal and illegal immigrants do not exist.



Uh, unfortunately there are real borders that do indeed exist.
Because of this, illegal aliens who cross over those borders, ILLEGALLY, exist.


Actually, the earth is a "spherical" object that has land mass and water. The border between lands were created by humans (excluding what is defined by mountainous regions, rivers, lakes, etc.

"I decree this land is named __________! and we are therefore deemed 'English' people.", etc).
[edit on 21-2-2009 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

Correct so there are legal borders.
If you don't believe me, try crossing one and see what happens



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities
reply to post by jfj123
 



Originally posted by jfj123
The reason we argue about this is because some people don't want to obey reasonable laws.
We argue about this because people want to take things that others have worked hard for.
We argue about this because people think that if you sneak into the country, you can abuse it's system at the expense of those who have worked within the system.

Just an FYI


I understand what you are saying from a relative perspective.

However, for me to agree with you, we need to stipulate on what the words "reasonable", "fairness", and "justice" mean.

Look it up based on the laws of the country you are referring to.


My point is we need to start thinking more 4 dimensionally if we are to ever end this perpetual debate. If you do not believe in dimensions, then what I mean is, we need to broaden our scope to the furthest perspective possible, and then take action. Very intricate I think and difficult indeed.

Nice thoughts but we aren't intellectually advanced enough to do more then what we're doing.

If you have a different approach to the problem, feel free to bring it to the table. I just ask that you are specific about your approach.


[edit on 21-2-2009 by Unlimitedpossibilities]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I don't see how in the world someone can post calling all American white people hypocrites with genocidal ancestors can be seen as anything other than racist.

Flip the script, what if I, as a white guy, came on here posting that every black person in America can't read or write. You're telling me you wouldn't see that as racist? There is no difference. I made a straight racist statement there. Are there black people that can't read or write in America? Probably I can be assured that there is at least one. So I guess it's ok then to say that all of them can't read or write? Even worse, lets make that scenario even more like the OP's. Let's go ahead and say that black america is completely illiterate because their ancestors were all illiterate savages who were killers and rapists.

Are there people in America who are direct discendants of people who settled here? I'm sure there are. Are they genocidal hypocrites? According to this guy they are, and not only that, but all American White people are. You're right, that is my mistake, I guess that is not racist at all.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by Pimpish
 


Notice the OP isn't even posting anymore?
He hasn't been able to form a coherent argument since page 1 and apparently is refusing to start now.
Very unfortunate.



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