Illegal Immigrant - White Caucasian Settlers - Let Truth Be Spoken

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Some of you will continue to have "support our troops" in your signatures

Damn right !
I support those individuals who signed up to protect their nation. Just like you say there is a difference between Americans and the US government, there is a difference between individual soldiers and the military.

This is the wrong mentality to have, to just get offended all the time and have your precious patriotism get hurt. Your Govt. is doing terrible things with your tax money and in your name since you are citizens.

Nothing like completely derailing your own thread.

Someone said my thread is all heart and no logic.

YEP.

I believe my thread is all logic but those who are offended are the ones taking to heart.

You haven't used any logic yet but please feel free to do so.

The thread is about illegal immigration and apparently white caucasian settlers. Both white and caucasian huh?
Then you talk about how we use the term illegal immigrant in a derogatory sense.

Then you blame the US for letting aliens in, instead of blaming the aliens for breaking the law and entering ILLEGALLY.

I use the analogy of a locked house:
1. Lets say I don't have enough locks on my house
2. Lets say we don't completely close off US borders

1. Someone breaks into my house
2. Someone enters the US illegally

1. You are saying that it's my fault someone broke in because I didn't do enough to prevent it.
2. You are saying that it's the US' fault that illegals enter the country because we didn't do enough to prevent it.

OK do you get the analogy now?
Do you understand how you put the blame on the victim instead of on the perpetrator?

You get upset because you believed I was getting personal yet you call me a bigot and racist, etc... How much more personal does that get???

How are these things an example of logic on your part?

[edit on 20-2-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jfj123

Damn right !
I support those individuals who signed up to protect their nation. Just like you say there is a difference between Americans and the US government, there is a difference between individual soldiers and the military.

I'm sure even some that oppose this thread will disagree with this statement.

You cannot fight for your freedom overseas
sorry bro, doesn't work that way

you protect your nation domestically, NOT abroad

you don't get it

overseas troops is bankrupting your economy
and causing hate towards the U.S.
which increases terroism

800 bases in over 140 countries is colonialism on a massive scale

this is NOT protecting you

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by jfj123

Damn right !
I support those individuals who signed up to protect their nation. Just like you say there is a difference between Americans and the US government, there is a difference between individual soldiers and the military.

I'm sure even some that oppose this thread will disagree with this statement.

You cannot fight for your freedom overseas
sorry bro, doesn't work that way

you protect your nation domestically, NOT abroad

you don't get it

overseas troops is bankrupting your economy
and causing hate towards the U.S.
which increases terroism

800 bases in over 140 countries is colonialism on a massive scale

this is NOT protecting you

Smart guy here wants us to wait until the fight is on our soil and civilians are getting killed. I pray this guy never runs for office.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by jfj123

Damn right !
I support those individuals who signed up to protect their nation. Just like you say there is a difference between Americans and the US government, there is a difference between individual soldiers and the military.

I'm sure even some that oppose this thread will disagree with this statement.

You cannot fight for your freedom overseas
sorry bro, doesn't work that way

That's not what I said at all now is it?

This is what you said

I am strong supporter of the division between the people and govt.
and this is globally not just for the western world.

So obviously what you're saying is that there is a difference between the individual and the entity the individual resides in.

Since you believe this to be correct, the exact same logic means that
Supporting an individual soldier is different then supporting the military as a whole.

You can't have it both ways. The logic either works both ways or neither way.

you protect your nation domestically, NOT abroad

you don't get it

According to your own posts, I'm right

I live at the most very southern point of arizona, just right along the colorado river (mexico/us border). Do you even know why people are upset about illegal immigration, 'ModernAcademia"? Maybe it has something to do with criminals sneaking into the countries with untraceable backgrounds and continuing their reign of terror here (Happened here - illegal coyote killed over 10 people when rolling an SUV crammed with people - while running from the border patrol; Illegal child molesters arrested often here). Or maybe it's the scam artists that come over here, demand free food, money, and hospital care, and then work under the table without paying taxes, only to send their money back home to mexico (no benifit for the rest of us economically - this is a way of living for illegals here). Or maybe it has something to do with mexicans changing the channels on TV's in public places (ie, hospital) to Spanish speaking channels and getting defensive/outraged when someone asks them to turn it back to the English speaking channel that they were watching (Happens all the time here). Or maybe, just maybe, we are sick of paying taxes and living with a huge state deficit in our HOME STATE, while all these illegal that suck off the teat of tax payers can just up and leave when there is no work left (Mexicans are leaving here back to mexico after the jobs started getting cut) leaving our HOME state in shambles. Then again, maybe we just don't like the fact that all of the nations drug supplies come through our front yards (BP caught TWO TONS of marijuana today through the port of entry here). Or maybe we don't like seeing irresponsible mexicans dragging their kids through a desert that kills over 200 people annually (just in our sector). Of course there are more examples, but for now, maybe people like you, who don't actually see the real devistation caused by illegal immigration, should just shut the hell up. I invite you to live here and THEN tell me what you think of this issue.

ModernAcademia your opinions are obserd and you come off as quite uninformed on the subject of immigration in todays age.



-First off the legal citizens in the United states worked their ass's
off to give themselves the luxury they enjoy today. So why do you
think its just fine for illegal immigrants to just migraite and enjoy those
same luxuries while not contributing anything in return? I mean comeon
that's just crazy. Ive broken a number of bones , and had a number of
cuts throughout my lifetime that required emergency attention, all
ofwhich I had to pay alot of money to be treated and most of the time
had to wait behind atleast one-four groups of illegal aliens whom seemed
to have an ailment no worse then a sniffle , and a cough and certainly
didnt have to pay a dime for their treatment. How is that fair ? Seriously...
I pay taxes , they dont . Immigration is killing America plain and simple!
Mexico's standard of living is low and when those people decide they
want to live in America and they do so illegally they create a poverty
stricken environment for themselves aswell as their family. That poverty
inturn creates crime and that CRIME costs the tax payers billions. Then
theirs the financial aid that the tax payers have to pay to keep those
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS alive in our country. Sorry to say it but they are
trying to live above their standard of living and American tax payers are
getting the bill and thats why America is going into such a economic
downward spiral. They act asthough we owe them something which we
DO NOT! They call us racist because we dont like them bankrupting ,
freeloading , and verbally disgracing America the way they are doing!


Here's a example:
We'll say there's a guy named Dave. He has a family
of 4 who enjoy the finer things in life, yet only makes $20,000 a year and
doesnt pay taxes. Well he and his family decide they want to live in the
richest parts of the city where the cost of living is 10 times what he
makes in a year ($200,000). And he and his family also enjoy driving the
finest of cars aswell as eating the finest of foods.Now by the end of the
year Dave and his family are deep in debt to the amount of $480,000.
The next month Dave and his wife are imprisoned while his children are
put into the fostercare program never to see their parents again.

WHO IS TO BLAME? Dave is obiously he was trying to live out of his financial ability. He put himself in that situation not me or any other american so why should we have to pay for him to live out of his
financial range? Most people would agree.
Yet illegal aliens are doing the same thing Dave was in this example
(Live out of their financial range and have American's pickup the bill)
and suddenly people cant understand why what they're doing is so wrong
not only to Americans but their children aswell.

I am responsible for my own behavior. If I commit a crime, I become a criminal, and if I am caught I have no one to blame for the consequences except myself.

Have you heard the phrase "locks just keep honest people honest"?

It is not up to my neighbor to keep their doors locked to keep me out. If my neighbor's front door is hanging wide open and I walk in and steal something, who is the criminal? Who did something wrong? I did.

You might say "Well it's not very smart of your neighbor to leave the front door open."

I say that, in an ideal or perfect world, we'd all respect each other and respect each other's property, and there wouldn't need to be any fences (except to keep the livestock in), or doors (except to keep the cold wind out), and certainly there wouldn't need to be any locks.

As a logical, sensible adult with some experience of the world, I do have locks on my doors (and a pit bull surprise waiting inside for anyone who gets past those).

Perhaps someone busts my lock, shoots my dog, and steals my stuff anyway. Will you then say, it was my fault for not having better locks and two dogs? Whether I have open doors or double deadbolts, if someone chooses to invade my home and steal my stuff, they are the criminal.

All around where I live - out in the country - there are hay bales, 4-wheelers, tractors, dogs, cows, horses ... many with no locks to protect them, just a sign or a gate. If I violate this state of mutual trust and choose to go steal someone's tractor, it's not his fault for leaving the key in it. I chose to do something I know is wrong. I chose to become a criminal.
Perhaps he made it a bit easier for me than if it had been locked up, but it was still my choice, my decision, my responsibility, and I should be the one to accept any consequences.

The people who cross the US (or any other) border, throw trash on other peoples' property, kill livestock, break into homes, steal, and commit any other crimes are criminals. They made the choice to do something they know is against the law, and after the initial border crossing they continue to break laws, and it isn't the fault of the US for not having better border security than it was my neighbor's fault that I decided to steal his tractor.

I agree with you that we shouldn't call them illegal immigrants. They aren't any kind of immigrant.

**I** am an immigrant, a legal naturalized citizen who's been paying taxes since I was 17 and served 7 years in the US Navy.

These people we're talking about, they're criminals, and that's the only thing we should be calling them. "Illegal Immigrants" is a whitewash euphemism that puts a prettier face on what they are and doesn't tell it like it is.

Originally posted by Heike

**I** am an immigrant, a legal naturalized citizen who's been paying taxes since I was 17 and served 7 years in the US Navy.

You are a double perfect example
1. Of a good US citizen
2. A hero for serving their country.

These people we're talking about, they're criminals, and that's the only thing we should be calling them. "Illegal Immigrants" is a whitewash euphemism that puts a prettier face on what they are and doesn't tell it like it is.

You're absolutely right that we make it sound nicer then it is.
I guess it's like calling a rape victim something like a "forced romance".

You can pretty up the word to make it sound less criminal but it is what it is.

Good post
Thanks for serving This should be said more often.

Do you have any idea what it has cost the U.S. to have all these illegals here? The welfare system, hospitals, health care, schooling etc are coming out of our tax dollars. I can barely afford my own bills and medical never mind that of the millions of illegals who come here. Why should my husband and I pay close to a thousand dollars per month for medical while others are getting a free ride?

Illegals get help with food, housing, medical, even college. What makes them any better than the legal citizens who have worked their butts off all their lives? What makes the illegals better than all the people who have come here legally? All the illegals and those who are for amnesty do not understand or respect laws. They feel they are above the law. Imagine all the millions of jobs that would be available for citizens if we did not have all these illegals?

Our open borders brought in child molesters, murderers, violent gangs etc. Sorry, but we don't need that here.


We have families to feed and need our jobs and whatever help we can get, but we are left without.

I understand people's opposition to illegal immigration, but I think its important for people to realize that illegals are not our enemies. I was just looking at an infowars page on this topic, and most of the comments were actually encouraging the murder of illegal immigrants, saying things like "next time the farmer should shoot them and feed them to the pigs," one guy suggested setting out barrels of poison water for them to drink.
The point I want to make, is that these are poor, desperate people who are mainly trying to take care of themselves and their families. They are not invading enemies trying to steal our jobs and leech off of us. If I were desperate, I would probably do the same thing. I would put my own survival and the survival of my family ahead of the "law" any time.
Yes, illegal immigration is probably hurting this country. But who are you going blame? The immigrant who is just trying to feed his family, or the politicians, drug dealers (I'm talking the major cartels who are probably in league with the politicians), and corporations on both sides of the border who are responsible who for creating the terrible conditions that these people have to live in, for creating an environment where it makes more sense to break the law and flee your own country than to try and stay and make a real life for yourself in the land in which you were born.
Attacking the illegals is attacking the symptom, not the disease itself. Their enemy is the same as our enemy. Who knows? If things keep going the way they are, a lot of Americans might find themselves illegally crossing borders in hopes of finding a better life.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I don't recall anyone calling you racist. I do recall that you called others racists.

Anyway, you said..."I do not hate americans
but I am very muhc against many actions by the american govt.
americans and the american govt. are not at all the same thing."

This is just another fallacy that gets thrown around all the time by people like you. You make provacative statements about the American People and then when you can't support what you said, you say,"Oh, it's the American Government that I oppose not Americans."

I say BS! Every hear of a Government of the People, By the People, and for the People? Well that is what we have in the US. You cannot separate the People from the Government of the US. It is all one and the same, since our Government is elected and governs by the consent of the public. It is the very same in Canada and any other Constitutional Democratic form of government.

So, nice try Bud but I'm not buying it.

Also, your thread does not start by saying that the Government of the US is illegitimate, etc, etc. It starts by saying that all WHITE CAUCASIANS in the US are illegitimate. That is a racial statement directed at the People of the US, not its government.

Personally, I don't know what your real opinion is. I don't think that you have stated it. I have to agree with others who have said that you are a Troll and simply trying to stir the pot. So, I have no use for you or this thread. Don't bother to respond.

Originally posted by johnny2127
Smart guy here wants us to wait until the fight is on our soil and civilians are getting killed. I pray this guy never runs for office.

You don't get it
you speak of the fight?
which fight is this?

It's the fight caused because you are over there
its foreign occupation that is causing these attacks
and installing puppet govt.s in foreign nations

you are not for national security
this war is about oil, money and power
that's it
you are not pro-defense, you just want rich power people to become richer and more powerful

Originally posted by outsider13
I understand people's opposition to illegal immigration, but I think its important for people to realize that illegals are not our enemies. I was just looking at an infowars page on this topic, and most of the comments were actually encouraging the murder of illegal immigrants, saying things like "next time the farmer should shoot them and feed them to the pigs," one guy suggested setting out barrels of poison water for them to drink.
The point I want to make, is that these are poor, desperate people who are mainly trying to take care of themselves and their families. They are not invading enemies trying to steal our jobs and leech off of us. If I were desperate, I would probably do the same thing. I would put my own survival and the survival of my family ahead of the "law" any time.
Yes, illegal immigration is probably hurting this country. But who are you going blame? The immigrant who is just trying to feed his family, or the politicians, drug dealers (I'm talking the major cartels who are probably in league with the politicians), and corporations on both sides of the border who are responsible who for creating the terrible conditions that these people have to live in, for creating an environment where it makes more sense to break the law and flee your own country than to try and stay and make a real life for yourself in the land in which you were born.
Attacking the illegals is attacking the symptom, not the disease itself. Their enemy is the same as our enemy. Who knows? If things keep going the way they are, a lot of Americans might find themselves illegally crossing borders in hopes of finding a better life.

Thank you for this post
the thread desperately needed some sanity

I am not for it's a free for all come on in immigration law

I am just against the intense anti-illegal immigrant sentiment
and you gave a great example of that

hopefully more people will understand now

Originally posted by outsider13
I understand people's opposition to illegal immigration, but I think its important for people to realize that illegals are not our enemies.

Criminals are not our friends typically.

I was just looking at an infowars page on this topic, and most of the comments were actually encouraging the murder of illegal immigrants, saying things like "next time the farmer should shoot them and feed them to the pigs," one guy suggested setting out barrels of poison water for them to drink.
The point I want to make, is that these are poor, desperate people who are mainly trying to take care of themselves and their families.

And so are most CITIZENS in the United States. Why should the illegals come first?
Typically they don't pay taxes
Don't pay medical bills
take jobs away from Americans. In spite of what bush thinks.
etc..

They are not invading enemies trying to steal our jobs and leech off of us.

Yes they are.

If I were desperate, I would probably do the same thing. I would put my own survival and the survival of my family ahead of the "law" any time.

And you must assume the consequences of your actions for this. The vast majority of the time it isn't about survival but an improvement in their situation.

Yes, illegal immigration is probably hurting this country. But who are you going blame?

The illegal immigrants. Who else? And it is DEFINITELY hurting the country.

Let me give you an example.
I own a construction company and I bid against illegals on a regular basis. I'm a licensed builder who pays taxes, has insurance, etc..
The illegals have none of this.
Recently when I was bidding on a bathroom surround remodel, I bid a very good price of $800.00 for custom tile installation.
The illegal bid $150.00 but he had to be paid in cash. I can't compete with this so I lost the job. There is no possible way to get a fair deal in the construction industry where illegals are concerned.

The immigrant who is just trying to feed his family,

What about people such as myself who need to feed my family and are doing it the LEGAL way?

or the politicians, drug dealers (I'm talking the major cartels who are probably in league with the politicians), and corporations on both sides of the border who are responsible who for creating the terrible conditions that these people have to live in,

Not my fault.

for creating an environment where it makes more sense to break the law and flee your own country than to try and stay and make a real life for yourself in the land in which you were born.

Again, not my fault. I can't be responsible for everyone else's problems in the world, I have my own.

Originally posted by lunarminer

I don't recall anyone calling you racist. I do recall that you called others racists.

dude
ive been called a racist on almost every page on this thread lol

Originally posted by lunarminer
I say BS! Every hear of a Government of the People, By the People, and for the People? Well that is what we have in the US. You cannot separate the People from the Government of the US. It is all one and the same, since our Government is elected and governs by the consent of the public. It is the very same in Canada and any other Constitutional Democratic form of government.

Are you pro-bailout?
Did you see the immense protesting against the bailouts?

did your govt. represent you and the people not wanting it to pass?

Remember Cheney said "who cares what the american people want"
Rememer Bush saying "i don't care what americans think of me"

These people represent you?

You want 800 bases in over 140 countries?

You want a stimulus package?

You want drunken elected officials paying for sex with your tax money?

You wanted the patriot act?
you wanted FISA?
You approved for the FED and legalized counterfeiting?

How exactly is America governed by the consent of the people?

Your statement is laughable to say the least.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by johnny2127
Smart guy here wants us to wait until the fight is on our soil and civilians are getting killed. I pray this guy never runs for office.

You don't get it
you speak of the fight?
which fight is this?

It's the fight caused because you are over there
its foreign occupation that is causing these attacks
and installing puppet govt.s in foreign nations

You don't get it.
These extremist don't care where we're at. The problem is they don't want us to exist ANYWHERE !
Unless we agree to convert to their muslim extremist views, they don't want us to live anywhere on the planet. You can't reason with them, bargain with them or capitulate to them. They have decided we must DIE !!!
That's the reality you refuse to understand.

Terrorists blew up 2 WTC's, the Pentagon, etc..
The people in the WTC's and on the planes had NOTHING to do with US military action yet they were wiped out. The terrorists are not interested in fighting the US military but in terrorizing it's citizens.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Ah, I get it now. Being apologetic for the plight of the unfortunate law breakers is your idea of sound logic. Who cares that people who are here legally are suffering. We should all just throw open our doors and let all the illegal immigrants in that want to be here. So what if citizens are starving and can't find work, the illegals need to be taken care of.

Gotcha. I completely understand now.

I am 1/8 Commanche and my grandmother grew up on the reservation in Oklahoma. My cousins were all born on Lakota reservations in South Dakota.

I'm sorry but the OP is entirely off his rocker. This is the type of dangerous PC self-loathing insanity that's going to be the undoing of society.

OP, take your Che T-shirt wearing backside over here and consider staying there, please.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by thrustbucket]

[edit on 20-2-2009 by thrustbucket]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by jfj123

Damn right !
I support those individuals who signed up to protect their nation. Just like you say there is a difference between Americans and the US government, there is a difference between individual soldiers and the military.

I'm sure even some that oppose this thread will disagree with this statement.

You cannot fight for your freedom overseas
sorry bro, doesn't work that way

you protect your nation domestically, NOT abroad

you don't get it

overseas troops is bankrupting your economy
and causing hate towards the U.S.
which increases terroism

800 bases in over 140 countries is colonialism on a massive scale

this is NOT protecting you

So let me get this straight-
If you had suddenly started receiving bullets placed in your mailbox, threatening letters on your door, blood stains on your car. And all your friends and neighbors warned you that a guy two streets down was very vocal about all the threats, and said he intended to kill you and your family some day, as soon as he can get together a posse and save up for some guns...... Your response would be to stay inside and wait and see. Correct?

Originally posted by Jenna
We should all just throw open our doors and let all the illegal immigrants in that want to be here. So what if citizens are starving and can't find work, the illegals need to be taken care of.

Gotcha. I completely understand now.

Could someone please let this Jenna know about what I have been posting please?

I have been accused of repeating myself yet these statements like Jenna's keep coming back and again again.

Did you even read any of my posts?//??

I NEVER SAID KEEP YOUR DOORS OPEN
BORDER SECURITY IS IMPORTANT I SAID