is it possible to be in the illuminati and not know it.

No, because there is too much free thinking, the only time you are so unaware of what is going on is when you have a "Soviet Union" type state, and even then people still knew they were being oppressed (Such as the guy who made the soviet doccumentary 'anna' which was illegal to do because it was a home video basically spanning 22 years and is frightening as hell to any person who's ever experience freedom.)

Sincerely,
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id have thought that not knowing what was going on in the western world would have more to do with either believing what you were told,being too busy to look or being more concerned with yourself than the rest of humanity.who says that the "soviet union" was unaware of anything?free thinking is something every human being on the planet does.what i was wondering was are you born illuniniti or do you reach a state of awarness and become one?if your father is one,is he allowed to tell you or do you have to work it out for yourself.what happens if he dies without telling you.does this mean you arnt one or are you looked after in life until you become one?

Well first off our way of thought is VERY alien to most other cultures...by our way of thought I mean Western thought.

If you people thought that the "West" was just a term for economical differences you're dead wrong, it's literally a completely different mind set.

Western thought is VERY liberal, always asking questions always changing, but we maintain our identity through tradition like anyone else.

But main point is, there are MANY peoples in this world, where free-thought is a completely foriegn idea, they don't know it and never will. To them you think what you think, if you act differently, or if you want to change a way of life that's been done for thousands of years, you're ostracized or killed.

This is actually a large problem in the middle east, what is going on over there is the educated class (the minority shiites) has mingled with "Western thought" and the poor tribal class (the majority sunnis) still cling to the "tribalistic", "if you step outta line traditionally you're dead!" way of thought.

In Iraq Saddam appealed to the Sunnis, and has slaughtered like jews, the shiites along with kurds and other minorities.

But this schisim in islam is why they are in such conflict, the beddouin tribalism, strong in their pure culture, is one of warring and vendettas. They aren't apt to being free as we think it, to them life is life, and the notion of being able to change it through a vote, is no different than getting an american to shut-up, every american has an opinion no matter how uninformed it is.

So I understand your saying "well can't we be born into this 'NWO' and so don't realize it already exists?" but I think we can't be because the Western and American way of thought specifically, is so free, that anything true can be found, if you can sift through all the falsities, which usually isn't mallicious.

As for the media, I think they like any other show, appeal only to what is interesting, death blood and such...which is why they don't really teach the masses anything.

And a lot of Americans and such take this media as gospel, so it is easy to think most americans are brainwashed, but they aren't, because as soon as their liberties are TRULY taken away...they'd fight.

It's not like story books where the next generation will grow up believing that the leader is correct, it's not in our tradition like it was in Germany...which is why germany fell to nazism, and that hasn't happend in america, even though during the depression Nasism was praised for its great work in helping germany, but was still unpopular in America.

The lack of knowledge and apathy though could form a problem in short terms, little snipits here and there...taken from our liberties, but not to an extent of domination, although I think any snipit is too much and anyone here would agree, because we're all thinkers

Summing it up, I disagree that we are unconscious enough to be "born" into the supposed illuminati, if there is such a thing, I'd say that it is completely a banking thing, and the people in it are international banking tycoons, and not just the ones well known, if even them, but ones who do exert great forces on our "fiat money" and are able to communicate secretly without anyone caring, which is totally the banks.

Also banking allows them to use "credit" so they don't even need wealth, they can spend an infinite amount of cash backed by National debt's interest...adding to that interest as the spend without anyone knowing because the interest grows by leaps and bounds and no one can keep track of it all.

Now what I stated above actually seems quite plausible and spooky, but I doubt such a group exists

As for the soviet union, they don't have free thought, at least they didn't and still they have a much abbrieviated version of free thought vs. us americans, my russian teacher sees no problem what-so-ever with the "Patriot Act" she told us flat out...the state needs to control things to make us safe.

Which of course, anyone who's read the constitution, and been born in america, would scoff at and spit...

But that's exactly what the Democrats have been doing to us, enlarging the Federal government, reducing the rolls of the states and cities, this "patriot act" by the republicans is only a pittence compared to what the Democrats do by bloating the government like a hog.

Sincerely,
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Someone should restrict freemason from rubishing secret societies froum.

Look at it, all last posts are flooded. I say one reply a day is enough!

You have to weasel your way to the top of certain secret societies to be Illuminati.

Posssibly some are born destined to it, but they still have to join up and worm their way up.

The state of Illumination is what the Catholics call demonic possession. You have to want it bad.

[Edited on 1-2-2003 by Researcher]