Santelli Sreaming for Sanity and ACTION!!

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
Will you be happy when it comes down to Mad Max?

That's exactly what they want! All you see on this site is doom & Gloom. Anything the government does is the worst thing ever. Obama farts and everyone here starts with the whole "This is it folks, store your food and get your ammo ready; the NWO is coming!" Then something like what Santelli did happens. Everyone gets behind him 'cause he's fighting "the man". Now one of three things happen. 1. Santelli runs for the Republican Pres. nomination, loses, and becomes the new Ron Paul, he gets nowhere, but everyone here views him as some kind of prophet. They complain about the Government and cry for revolution before the NWO gets here 2. Santelli runs for the Republican Pres. nomination and wins it. He then wins the election, takes office and everyone here complains that he's a puppet of the dreaded "Powers That Be". They complain about the Government and cry for revolution before the NWO gets here. 3. Santelli goes nowhere, they complain about the Government and cry for revolution before the NWO gets here.

No matter what happens it's the wrong thing and we need revolution because the NWO is coming.
There's no reasoning with them, don't bother. They live in a world of absolute fear and don't want to change that.

It seems like there are a lot of people who have either willfully been asleep the past 30 years, or real good at denial. Face facts, we have no one to blame for this but ourselves, and we will never get out of this mess unless we start being honest with ourselves.
No one was complaining when house prices were going up 50% a year, year after year. No one complained when they made huge gains off of tech boom stocks whose "great ideas" were on the level of selling bulk dog food on-line, because how else would anyone want to buy bulk dog food. You don't get something for nothing, and if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Remember being told that when you were young, but how many people just pushed it back, and did what everyone else was doing, mainly grabbing with both hands and making a stash.

Why we are in trouble;

1) Greed. Not a desire for security, or a better life for your kids, or a desire to be noted for your accomplishments, but true unchecked greed, and a tolerance for "greed is good" that allowed us to accept bogus excuses for it.

2) Trillions and Trillions of dollars in bad paper. So much bad paper, that the attempts of our government to shore up the financial system by printing a few Trillion are bound to fail. The government is trying to dig its' way out of an avalanche with a spork.

3) Over borrowing and general living beyond our means. Lack of savings, and a society that thrives only by immediate gratification. Don't get offended if it does not apply to you.

4) A manufacturing and technological base that has stagnated. This is not a perfect generalization, but if you have worked for any big company recently, you probably realize something is very wrong.
It also seems we have not had many great ideas lately, and we are not making the products that the rest of the world wants. I don't think we have lost it, but I do think we may be in a rut.

5) Unrealistic expectations of workers. As bad as corporate and Wall street bosses are showing themselves to be, there are still a lot of people in this country who don't see much honor or use in a good work ethic. We also don't do a good job of getting people to be responsible for their own health, and this combined with a blind faith in the ability of medicine to fix everything is a disaster. In many ways we expect employers/government to care for us more than we should, once we get on with the right company that is.

6) Lastly, and most importantly, we have a political system that glad faces and just wants everything to keep going as is, without systemic change, or pain.
I had, and to some extent still have high hopes for Obama, because at this point, he is our only hope, but I have to say I am disappointed in the moves he has made so far. We are starting to pay for the past 30 years, and changes will take place that government can not stop. They have been in damage control for the past 10-15 years, and now the quick fixes are used up. Time to pay the piper, so to speak.


Here are the two ways I see things going. The first way is the wrong way, my opinion, but it introduces the pain in small steps, so it will probably be the one that gets done.

Way 1 - Keep borrowing and don't admit anything is wrong.

The government pumps money into the banks , and sets up a receiver bank to consolidate the bad paper. In that order. The paper will be worthless, but the people will have the giant debt held over their heads, forever, because that is how long it will take to pay it off.
The government bails out businesses, and creates projects that keep some people employed to keep some stream of revenue going, mainly from gradually increasing taxes.
The dollar gets gradually devalued, while benefits get fixed/frozen under the argument that there is a budget crisis. Eventually, housing market prices meet what people owe due to the fact the dollar is just not worth as much.
We work harder with little hope for a better future

reply to post by WISHADOW


If FEMA's response to Katrina is any indication of how they'll handle things when the US collapses, none of us have a thing to fear. They couldn't handle something that spanned 1/4th of the US, much less something that hits all of the US at the same time. As for the military and the police, you don't honestly believe that they are all going to mindlessly level down on people when they themselves are having to worry about their families because they won't be getting paid after the crash. I've spoken to several police officers in my area and they've all told me the same thing. Should the fit hit the shan, they are going to look out for their families and themselves. The US has not yet encountered a collapse on the scale we're about to see. I'd rather get on with it and get back to following the Constitution and providing most of the power to the States as was intended. When the only answer is a bailout of everyone who was irresponsible, it's no answer at all. We the People have suffered enough.

There's no reasoning with them, don't bother. They live in a world of absolute fear and don't want to change that.

While it's true that it may be difficult reasoning with us with diatribes such as the one you've just posted, I feel it's necessary to correct one thing you stated above. You said that we live in a world of absolute fear. You couldn't be more wrong. There isn't anything that this collapse can throw at me that I'm not prepared to deal with. Am I afraid? Not in the least. Fear is nothing more than weakness. I'd be willing to suggest that nearly all of us here aren't afraid at all. Most of us are ready. Lets hope you're ready down there in Phoenix.

To continue,

Way 2 - Admit we have a problem, and deal with it.

Put an end to derivatives and leveraged financial instruments. Declare a bank holiday, and get a count of what the banks have on their books.
As a result of this, all U.S. banks will likely need to undergo bankruptcy reorganization, as will the Fed, and most overseas banks.
Some banks will be dissolved, others will be recapitalized. Performing loans will be maintained and kept as assets by the good banks, and non-performing loans would be renegotiated or forclosed based on normal bank lending guidelines, not government mandates.
The value of the dollar would be allowed to drop by a significant percent, 30% to 50%.

This would happen all at once.

Our creditors would not be happy, but they are not without their own bad motives, so no pity. Be happy with what you get.
Some people would be seriously hurt, and there would be a period where prices of goods would rise faster than incomes, but it would mean that foreign goods would be more expensive, and domestic goods cheaper. This would create jobs by a real economy, and increase real tax revenues.
House prices would at first be cheap, and then rebound as wages adjust. It would be very stressful for about 2 years, but in the long run, we would rebound and be a stronger nation, that is, unless people get greedy again. In which case, we would be just like Mexico. But if done right, with real leadership, we could get a new start and not burden our children with an unending mountain of debt.
But I don't think it will happen, too much pain.

reply to post by morefiber


Very well said. I have to agree that greed is what got us where we are now, along with the government's desire to bailout everyone "too big to fail". Santelli hit the nail on the head when he asked everyone if they wanted to pay their neighbors mortgage. The answer was a resounding "No". We haven't even seen the last of the bailouts. We're going to see even more money thrown at the failing auto industry, followed by airlines asking for some money as well when ridership continues to decline. Throwing money at the problem is only going to make it worse (as you mentioned in your #1).

I think things will be worse than what you mentioned in #2, but there are a lot of us that are ready for it. The people who are going to have the rug pulled from under their over-privileged feet are the ones who are going to have the roughest time of it. We'll all adapt and overcome the problem, but I don't think we'll have this system around much longer, especially when other countries start folding.

reply to post by bpg131313


Thanks for the feedback.

I think short term, scenario #2 would be very traumatic for most people. It would mean large numbers of foreclosures, high unemployment at least short term, and prices for necessities that jump 30% to 50% or more overnight, with no guarantee they don't keep rising. The only plus would be that it gets it over with relatively quick, and market forces can adjust. The first 1-2 years would be hell, and likely cause riots, thats why I don't see it happening.
The government could take basic steps to see that people survive O.K., but I just don't see them wanting to change the status quo.
I really fear that our government will make obligations that we and our kids have to pay for generations to come.
I can't say that I see the rich and powerful suffering much either way. I just don't believe anymore.

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

 

what happens without this plan? We get unemployment to 30-40% for one thing. Only jobs left will be with goverments. Stilldon'tdo anything and then even thos ewill be gone. We end up with all homes foreclosed and everyones futures wiped out. Not a bank will survive as they are all on huge leverage. Your savings will be wiped. Your annuities will be worthless. There will be nothing left. Is that what you want? It is obvious that you have nothing or you feel you already have everything you will ever need.

if we don't fix this now, the eventual costs will be much much greater. There is a concept of greater evils. You all shouldl oook into it,so you can make better informed decisions. That 90% of the people agree with Santelli tells me that critical thinking is in setrious decline in America.

Please elaborate on why you feel letting these homes go into foreclosure would 'doom America' so to speak? I've looked at various websites and read a bit on this one as to the whole situation, but I still have a hard time beleiving it would collapse the system because a few people lost their homes. No flames please, I am asking a serious and legitimate question.

Chrono

I just can't believe that the only tool we had that was making housing go up again was foreclosure. Now Obama's plan is to stifle those foreclosure deals and pay those mortgages for them. And what will this do to the market? Destroy it, that's what.

Food for thought...


Remove yourself from this failing society that controls every aspect of your life.
(credit,debit,taxes,soc security ect.)

Create your own communities right where you are, and with your own currency. " made up" if you will, after all this land is your land and this land is my land.
(gold,silver,gems,stones,metals,manufactured products)

Keep the constitution as your law of your land.
(fore-fathers had a pretty good head on their shoulders)

Manufacture your product for trade from community to community.
(food,medicines,ect.)

Ignore the world around you that does not meet your living standards.
(It is not your job to police the world, nor is it to abide by someone else's rule)



And protect your way of life.
(In a free society the people will be its own protection / it is not necessary to create a machine to do it for you.)

Once word is spread of the successful creation of something similar to this, and the real freedom it entails, everyone living in this world would overthrow their unnecessary war machines that govern every aspect of their lives and create something similar of their own. And hopefully we can all learn from this many century mistake.

just an idea, for those who can create a wildfire from a spark.

How many 100's of 1000's is the American worker paying to have its troops stay and be slaughtered in Iraq? and still the "war" goes on.

How many 100's of 1000's are you spending on three lettered groups like the CIA, the same groups that create the wars that see 1000's of your troops fighting in, and watching as the money drains from your own country?

Its too late to wake up, there wont be a revolution in the states, real revolutions are brought on and carried out by real people and the people of the great USA are not real enough for that. Look at what happened now so long ago in Thailand's main international airport, as the people demanded the government step down, they won, they went to government buildings, they blocked and sat in the cities main airport and the army refused to move them.

They killed one of your leaders on the streets, shot him like a dog in front of the people who voted him in, they said and say to this day that a “lone gunman” carried it out, and you did nothing. Your country was attacked on 9/11 and still an amazing amount of questions go unanswered into that days events, and you did nothing. You have troops in Iraq acting as targets for people who don't want you there, while their famlies and homes back home are being taken from them, you will do nothing.

All the talk about a new American revolution is BS, leave the real revolutions to countries with people who have the balls to carry them out and act when they see injustice.

A revolution is a fundamental change in power and therefore the only people in America who have have a real revolution, were the people who now control all of you.



After seeing this video and getting all pumped for action........you...will.....do.....nothing.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by InterWeb]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Bail out the bankers - Yes Bail out the homeowners - No

1. There were people out there who were for that bailout who are starting to see that they were wrong. There is alot of info on this subject. I suggest reading up on what happened last Sept. 11.

2. WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS MONEY GOES TO IN THE END?
Thats' right...THE BANKS.

3. Who is this money being taken from...TAXPAYERS and it always will be.

and what will happen if 5 millions of you gather that 4 th of julay in chicago ?

perfect excuse for martial law .

btw until now no revolution started online . but ok . i will follow your activities here .

You can spend all day trying to find blame for whomever started this mess. The fact of the matter is that we are now in a financial firestorm and the Obama Administration is pouring gasoline on it.
Why?
The liberal agenda has never hidden the fact that they want a nationalized country.
Nationalized healthcare.
Nationalized banks.
Nationalized industry.
Biden, himself, stated this prior to the election, stating that there were going to be changes made that would appear difficult at the time but to please "be patient".
But I firmly believe that they will fail because of the American people. Sure, there's going to be financial collapse on a broad scale, BUT there are countless "micro-economic climates" throughout this country that will keep it going.
People will continue to work.
People will continue to spend.
And whatever "crisis" appears on the horizon will be weathered by all the average Americans, who make up this counttry anyway.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
It would be nice if he would put in a similar rant against the bail out of the banks. But he was remarkably silent on that subject.

Bail out the bankers - Yes
Bail out the homeowners - No

Santilli seems a little hypocritical to me.

I agree and will add: it is the little guy that should be bailed out, not the big banks. I don't call it socialism. I call it pay back. We've been robbed with high taxes for far too long and our tax dollars squandered by the conservative war mongering patriots and their killing sprees in foreign lands.

None of this would have happened if Bush had not seduced the country into going out and slaughtering other countries.

Nation building.....Huh...you don't hear that buzz phrase in the media anymore do ya? Bush tore down Iraq, and put us into bankruptcy. Some success story....some nation building....what a moron! With a bible under his arm like most so called patriots.......what a load of crap!

You uncompassionate conservative god fearing war mongers have nothing to bragg about, so get off you patriot horses asses and come back to earth.


[edit on 20/2/09 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by mikerussellus
You can spend all day trying to find blame for whomever started this mess. The fact of the matter is that we are now in a financial firestorm and the Obama Administration is pouring gasoline on it.
Why?
The liberal agenda has never hidden the fact that they want a nationalized country.
Nationalized healthcare.
Nationalized banks.
Nationalized industry.
People will continue to work.
People will continue to spend.
And whatever "crisis" appears on the horizon will be weathered by all the average Americans, who make up this counttry anyway.

Nationalized healthcare.
Nationalized banks.
Nationalized industry.
People will continue to work.
People will continue to spend.

Sounds good to me! Now let's all shut up and get back to work....and work on reconcilliation, not division. There is nothing wrong with a social net. We, and our forefathers have worked hard and earned some payback.

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by mikerussellus
You can spend all day trying to find blame for whomever started this mess. The fact of the matter is that we are now in a financial firestorm and the Obama Administration is pouring gasoline on it.
Why?
The liberal agenda has never hidden the fact that they want a nationalized country.
Nationalized healthcare.
Nationalized banks.
Nationalized industry.
People will continue to work.
People will continue to spend.
And whatever "crisis" appears on the horizon will be weathered by all the average Americans, who make up this counttry anyway.

Nationalized healthcare.

Nationalized banks.

Nationalized industry.

People will continue to work.

People will continue to spend.

Sounds good to me! Now let's all shut up and get back to work....and work on reconcilliation, not division. There is nothing wrong with a social net. We, and our forefathers have worked hard and earned some payback.

I know you probably haven't heard of them, but there was this country called the "USSR" and they tried that. Didn't turn out too well if I recall. Too much Gov't intervention.

Could someone verify that for me?

reply to post by ACEMANN


Ya, well Americanize it. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
And don't say can't....cuz ya can.

Imperialism and capitalism are old, out dated and selfish systems. What's wrong with looking to better ourselves and our way of government?

[edit on 20/2/09 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by ACEMANN
I know you probably haven't heard of them, but there was this country called the "USSR" and they tried that. Didn't turn out too well if I recall. Too much Gov't intervention.

Could someone verify that for me?

I know you probably haven't hear of this, but there is a country called the "USA" and they are bankrupt and will likely send the whole world down the black hole of bankruptcy. Capitalism, Imperialism and Patriotism didn't turn out too well if I recall.

I don't need anyone to verify that for me!

reply to post by RolandBrichter



I found the rant unbelievable, I sure didn't hear that, when the govt. gave them billions of dollars to BAIL WALL STREET OUT!!

So now, when it comes to ACTUALLY possibly help the "normal" hardworking people, now Wall St. is going to yell ' NO BAILOUT'?

Give me a Break!!

So, the point of the rant was 'ONLY HELP WALL ST AND THE RICH, BUT NO ONE ELSE'?

Sickening!!!