Criminalizing dissent? RNC protesters face felony terrorism charges

Wow great find. This is just another example of something we on ATS have known for awhile now. The tipping point is coming....

Once again I must say how much I love my ad block plus, I had no idea that MSNBC had banners as I see zero ads on here or any other site I visit!

How things have changed. I suppose under these new laws the whole civil rights march in DC back in the day would have been considered a terrorist activity!!! I do hope the ACLU will take this case and fight with all the cash and brains they can muster. If this isn't a huge violation of Civil Rights I can't imagine what is.

Just started this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's 14:53 in the UK.

Look I never said that there weren't peaceful protesters there at all (because I know for a fact a great number of the protesters were very peaceful) and you can throw all the videos you want at me but I, myself, was there and saw people throwing things through store windows. What about the store owners? What does that act do for the cause?
I recognize the power of protest but some things went overboard. There is no reason to damage people's property and call it a peaceful protest. Look friend, we are just on two different sides of this topic, this does not make us enemies and I am just passing on the information I witnessed first hand and throwing in my two cents.

[edit on 02/04/2009 by Cool Breeze]

Originally posted by Cool Breeze
Look I never said that there weren't peaceful protesters there at all (because I know for a fact a great number of the protesters were very peaceful) and you can throw all the videos you want at me but I, myself, was there and saw people throwing things through store windows. What about the store owners? What does that act do for the cause?
I recognize the power of protest but some things went overboard. There is no reason to damage people's property and call it a peaceful protest. Look friend, we are just on two different sides of this topic, this does not make us enemies and I am just passing on the information I witnessed first hand and throwing in my two cents.

[edit on 02/04/2009 by Cool Breeze]

Um, you are talking about *one* day out of *five* days of protests. One day of 2 or 3 people breaking stuff (out of which we aren't sure how many were agent provocateurs) does not equate to what you say. It does not mean "the majority" were trying to just see how much stuff they could break. You twisted the truth; I don't care if you were there if you are twisting the truth of what you witnessed. We all could watch the news and read online about the one or two windows that were broken. I am not condoning breaking a window or two. But that pales in comparison with what the police did in the form of brutality to people attending the protests. Your reasoning is weak and misleading, sorry.

reply to post by Cool Breeze

Heya Cool Breeze, I would value someone's witness statements over what the media says any day! I appreciate your input, since I WAS NOT there, and only know what I've read about it on ATS, cause I pulled the plug on cable/satellite long ago.

If you saw some of the unnecessary brutality, I'd love to hear your version of events about this part also. Didn't happen to have a camera out there, did you?

reply to post by wintermarches


Were you there? Just curious because it seems to me that the same stuff you say I am basing my opinion (which it is not, once again I am just reporting what I saw) on is the same thing you are basing your facts and opinions on. Sorry that I am saying what you apparently do not want to hear, but if you weren't there and are just getting your facts from a few biased sources that makes your statements no more credible then mine in your eyes (only because I forgot to bring my UAV on the days of the protests to be able to see everything going on at once. sorry but it was getting repairs done, hasn't been flying like it used to:roll I would honestly like to know why you believe your account of what happened on those days because of some vidoes and blog posts you have seen better than mine Like I said I was there and just was telling everyone what I had seen sorry that it just happens to be on the other side of the argument than yours but to say that I am wrong just because it is different than a youtube video you saw is very ignorant and close-minded. It was a little more complex than black and white (just like every other situation in the world today) so go ahead and continue to believe I am an "agent" or that I am just coming on here to spread disinformation but I am pretty sure I am too young to be an agent (just think about the video you saw and the average age of the people that were present).

[edit on 02/04/2009 by Cool Breeze]

reply to post by FRIGHTENER


Ha ha ha sorry no camera (good way to get noticed by police and anyone else for that matter). Like I said there were a lot of people there who just wanted to make the news by causing damage (and believe me they were not agents because we pretty much knew who was and wasn't "with us") The agents stood out and weren't too smart about how they tried to get us to do stuff. Some yelled out "Come on we can take on the pigs" and "What is everyone waiting for, lets get em" Come one how obvious is that we might be young but we are not stupid and going to take on a bunch of police

reply to post by Cool Breeze

Thanks for reply, much appreciated. Star!

No, you sound smart to me, recognizing how to avoid danger for yourself...and the possible instigators of trouble. When I was younger, I was the one dragged away, for shouting at the cops... Smarter now, though...

Originally posted by Cool Breeze
Were you there? Just curious because it seems to me that the same stuff you say I am basing my opinion (which it is not, once again I am just reporting what I saw) on is the same thing you are basing your facts and opinions on. Sorry that I am saying what you apparently do not want to hear, but if you weren't there and are just getting your facts from a few biased sources that makes your statements no more credible then mine in your eyes (only because I forgot to bring my UAV on the days of the protests to be able to see everything going on at once. sorry but it was getting repairs done, hasn't been flying like it used to:roll

I would honestly like to know why you believe your account of what happened on those days because of some vidoes and blog posts you have seen better than mine

Like I said I was there and just was telling everyone what I had seen sorry that it just happens to be on the other side of the argument than yours but to say that I am wrong just because it is different than a youtube video you saw is very ignorant and close-minded [sic]. It was a little more complex than black and white (just like every other situation in the world today) so go ahead and continue to believe I am an "agent" or that I am just coming on here to spread disinformation but I am pretty sure I am too young to be an agent (just think about the video you saw and the average age of the people that were present).

[edit on 02/04/2009 by Cool Breeze]

I think you're twisting what I said. I didn't say I based my perspective on the same things on which you based yours. It's obvious you only saw a portion of the protests, no matter what your sarcastic "excuse". You're also getting ugly and personal by calling me (or my arguments, implying me) "ignorant" and "close-minded"; not to mention, I've been anything but closed-minded seeing as I read a range of materials covering that entire week. This is not about me "not liking what I hear". lol. Nice try. You got defensive because you weren't able to accept my correcting your ill-presented facts, which seemed designed to sidetrack a relevant discussion started by OP (a discussion which could affect all of us). You are going off of a few hours on one day and from the actions from a few fringe people.

I've read the mainstream reports (whose truly biased side you seem to take) and I've read independent reports, too. I've seen videos you can't argue with, ones showing the injuries and showing the footage of cops beating people up for no reason. You go watch every single one, instead of just trash-talking the videos which you haven't obviously watched. I didn't say you were an agent (I don't get that from you), but by passing off your limited experience as over-arching fact, you are indeed spreading disinformation. I was not there. That spared me the bias that you seem to have, since you were apparently emotionally affected by the chaos of the immediate scene around you at some point and chose to focus on it rather than the big picture. It's making you miss the legal and human rights significance of what actually happened.

Again - one day does not equal five. You are trying to make it sound like it does. I know both sides did wrong things. My point was that the entirely of the situation clearly showed who was starting most of the trouble and behaving out of bounds. The cops and other authorities behaved badly, and will have to face lawsuits now. Why else would $10 million of insurance be taken out beforehand? They knew the police would go brutal. You don't seem to care about that part. Two broken windows and a few mischievous protestors seem to raise your dander more than all the wrongs committed by the people who abused their power. So I take it you are in support of the RNC 8 going to prison for a long time for charges that were trumped up to make them look like terrorists? And are you aware that 2 of 4 charges applied to each of them were added on only very recently, after they had a large showing of support for one of their court dates? I suppose you think that's ok too. And I suppose you think it's ok that cops went around arresting hundreds of people sitting on grass listening to music and then assigning random unjustified charges, right? And I guess you are in support of the journalists who illegally had equipment taken away from them? And the 17-year-old with a bootprint in the back and a hospitalization? And for the arrest of medics simply giving aid to wounded people? Why did you even bother to protest (I take it you were protesting) if you were on the side of those against whom the people were protesting, anyway? I'm not sure you understand what the documentary or what the protests are really about.

Do you even know what we're arguing here? You claimed most people just wanted to tear stuff up. I'm simply stating that is not true. I am not debating you saw some of the things you saw - trust me, we all heard about it in the MSM. Plus, there are activists out there who get upset at the few who ruin it for the many, too. This is why there were peacemaking intermediaries later on in the week. If you knew what happened the whole week, you would know that the brief initial violence did not become a pattern and that the pattern lied within the way the cops handled things. Anyway, if you want proof that the whole situation is not what you painted it to be, I can list article after article and video after video. You trumped up one little fact (mirroring the authorities' trumping up of charges), in the light of many other facts with which you will not be able to argue no matter how many times you repeat your one little fact. Somehow, with as ugly as you have gotten (and I admit I got a little snippy in my last post, which was uncalled for, out of frustration with what you were spouting), I doubt you would want to study the truth of the whole situation.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by wintermarches]

Well, here is another account of more charges being dropped during the RNC in September. It's just another example of the police displaying reactions out of proportion to the situation:



Source

The article also talks about the lawsuits to come, related to the RNC. I found it interesting that the Saint Paul City Attorney defended the decision to arrest almost 400 people on Day 1 of the protests, which may be the day of most contention as to the facts of who was misbehaving. It's understandable to a point, but I'm sure those arrests weren't all legitimate. The facts aren't as fresh in my memory (so I'd have to review them), but from one article it sounds like that was one of the days people were getting trapped by police too.

I'm glad so many charges are rightfully being dropped. This information might help provide some context for the arrests of and charges filed against the RNC 8.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by wintermarches]

Great story, thanks OP! I live in a very upscale ocean side community in South Florida and the police presence which has always been high because of the communities affluence has in recent months become more and more oppressive. Many long time residents are beginning to notice and complain as the police department we as citizens incorporated has become a money making machine to offset the declining tax base. There is no chance whatsoever of driving through the community above the speed limit with out getting a ticket. There is no chance you will drive through the community with a busted tail light, headlight or exhaust or any kind of equipment problem without getting a ticket. There is no chance of driving through the community in any kind of vehicle that attracts the attention of the police as not belonging and not getting pulled over for something. I am getting to the point I walk to the store and bank often to not have to drive in my own town, even though I am a legally licensed safe driver with a current registration, tag and insurance and all equipment on my car is in proper working order. It is getting bad and the economic downtown seems to be propelling it as governments big and small scramble to offset the rapidly diminishing tax base resulting from plummeting real estate prices and shuttered businesses.

The beast is going to devour us to extinction at this rate.