Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by badmedia

 

Sorry BM,

I started to type up a lenghty response to your rantings, but decided against it...

You seem to not be able to get over the fact that there might be absolutely nothing to consciousness.

there might be absolutely nothing special about it... its just the individual who deems it important, and thinks that its critical to explain it...

I can't possibly stress enough about how consciousness is only chemicals and brainwaves... you refuse to even entertain that idea... apparently in your mind, there is a deep seated desire to find importance in this very primitive life function...

Until you get over the desire to paint yourself as "special", there can be no discussion.

You haven't even bothered to explain why its necessary to assign such importance on this... but oh well..

Chemicals and brains waves are what provides the conversion of what is "out there" to your consciousness. Your body is a machine, and so it works off logic, no randomness to the body. It is of the physical. You are basically saying that these things are presenting themselves to each other.

What is so important is because it's about what your true self is. If you can't understand your true self, then what I say isn't going to seem possible to you. Just as I think we have demonstrated here pretty clearly.

As this is within everyone, not just me there is nothing "special" about it in such terms, what is "special" about it is that this part of us is not a part of creation.

But whatever, I guess if you wanna think consciousness is just somekind of chemical reaction, go right ahead. I guess it's just an understanding you will eventually have to come to on your own. You keep saying things like how I'm just doing it to feel special or warm and fuzzy, but in reality I think the same could just as easily be explained of you. As you perhaps fear the idea of something being greater than and beyond you, making you not feel so special, when you don't have "superior" genetics or physical characteristics over others. Both are still assumptions though.

I will not even read your post...if you don't believe why waste your time trying to disprove something...you will always get one group of people who agrees with you because they also on the same pointless mission as you and then the ones who will never believe you...I wasted my time to write this so that maybe you won't waste your time trying to disprove something which you will never succeed in doing...

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Well... as they say - A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

There is more than one description of god? Well could you please tell me which one is true? ... because the others must be bunk!

It's not that 'things' are misunderstood. It's that religious folk keep reinterpreting the so called 'facts' when they are shown to be untrue, which is in essence, moving the goal posts. There's a scientific term for it, "Cognitive Dissonance".

IRM

The only reason there is a "chain" is because you are attaching them to me. Go ahead and break those links, they don't link to me. They aren't and never have been my beliefs. And if you do break a link in my "chain", not the chains you attach to me, I will thank you for doing so.

When you group everyone up like such, then you just apply a collective false attitude. Same attitude you find in racism. That people get their qualities from groups they belong to, rather than being individuals I guess since Hitler was white, then all white people are evil, because he is the weakest link. And if that isn't enough, lets throw on Jeffery Dalhmer. And so on.

I'm just giving my individual opinion. Sure, it is sometimes easier to get a point across by saying "Christians". I am guilty of such myself, and when we do it we mean the mainstream general belief. But you still have to allow for individual opinions and understandings. Imagine if you shared a belief with someone, and then every belief they have is attributed to you. Not really pleasant.

We prove that God doesn't exist every single day....God wants peace, we make war.....God wants love, we give hate.....God says not to think about the WORLDLY things and focus on him....Guess what God...I LIVE IN THE WORLD SO I HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE.....oh and supposedly you put me here so your sadistic a** is probably loving the fact that we're all suffering down here....thanks for looking out God

reply to post by TheAbstract


Your post points out something that I had forgotten to mention. Many people who are hell-bent on "proving" that God does not exist are in fact angry at God. The very same God that they say does not exist. It's kind of a vengance thing.

The point is that my belief in God does not change the reality of whether or not He exists. If Supreme Beings exist, then they exist. If they don't, well then they don't. We simply don't have enough information yet, to prove one way or the other. Anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.

That is why it is called faith.

It seems like every day I log into this site there is another thread out determined to disprove the existence of God. It seems to be a growing trend here, so much so that I find myself wondering if this conspiracy website is turning into some sort of 'anti-religious' forums...

Anyhow, I understand that in this day and age humanity has become very scientific as a whole, however very few people seem to think the unthinkable: perhaps science and logic can't explain everything? You have to realize that science and religion are polar opposites, they will always be able to prove/disprove one another. This is because science is logical and based on the physical world as we know it and religion requires faith and is based on the spiritual world, or rather, that which cannot be put in a lab and tested.

Simply put, you can't disprove God with logic because belief in God is based in faith. I realize that probably sounds illogical to some of you but that's just the nature of things in my opinion. Science and logic are not the end-all solution to everything.



[edit on 20-2-2009 by JayTaylor]

reply to post by JayTaylor


I really liked your post and I gave you a star.

It shows some very clear thinking on your part and you expressed yourself better than most of us can.

I would just like to ad that everything comes down to faith in the end. Whether the subject is science, math, religion, etc. In the end these are all expresions of belief systems. In 500 years virtually everything that we "know" now about all of these subjects will be discarded and new theories will exist in their place.

Of course there are some hard headed individuals out there who like to deny that their particular beliefs are based on faith. However, if you press them long and hard enough they will say something like, "Einstein said...", or "Darwin proved...", or "Descarte did...". In the end it always comes down to someone or something that you have to trust and that is the essence of faith.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
reply to post by Viral

 

Christianity has been proven false for years, only few take note of it.

I have not yet once found a seeming contradiction or question that could not be addressed. This isn't from a lack of educating myself either. I've been taking courses for at least a decade now. Every time I see a topic like this, it always brings up the same objections that have been addressed for hundreds if not thousands of years. Isn't there some sort of moral obligation to research these questions when they come up, rather than trying to rally support against Christians? But most people's aims are not to find the truth, they just want to protect their interests. I have constantly questioned my faith, but in turn I research and address those questions, and always find a logical and satisfactory answer. Seriously, there are millions of pages out there to be read, but most people would rather settle for some rudimentary argument they found on an internet video or forum.

And the people who say, "I believe in science, not God," - I just don't understand. If God is the creator of this material reality, then shouldn't science in itself be a pursuit of understanding God? That's like examining an artist's painting and then trying to disprove the artist's existence.

seriously thats not proof at all. you seem like you're just looking for a way to disprove it to fulfill some other motive...if god is omnipotent he wouldn't ever have to change the future cus he'd make it perfect the first time.

Your religion - Atheism - is the belief that there is no God. Stupid word games are enough to settle it for you that the wonder and complexity of the universe just happened by random interactions.

Atheism is among the most closed minded of dogmas. You owe it to yourself to stretch your mind and think a little harder about existence.

Originally posted by Gregor100
If you can change the future you are not omniscient.

If you cannot you are not omnipotent.

First sentence is technically wrong. If you can change the future, then you must know the future or alternate future(s) - why would even try to change it if you don't know what's going to happen? And especially, not getting affected by the paradox of the change itself - which also proves omnipotence.

The second sentence is correct.

But the question is, what would be a good reason to change the future? What kind of future anyway, the one foretold in the Bible??

[edit on 20-2-2009 by ahnggk]

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by Gregor100

 

Are you that clueless?

That jibberish is proof to you?

I am curious why you need to spend this much time and energy to dispell something you do not believe in?

I don't believe in Santa, I won't spend time disputing his existence.

And thus he still comes once a year to billions of kids and leaves them toys.

A noble gesture on your part, indeed !!

Originally posted by dbates
You misquoted the "video" (Which is nothing but static text displayed for 9 seconds).

The god of the bible is claimed to be omnipotent and omniscient.

If you can change the future, you are not omniscient. If you cannot you are not omnipotent.

Myth busted.

God is in the 10th dimension. The Universe is an unchanging static image for him. Imagine yourself looking at a picture of a maze from above with a line drawn to every possible outcome. Changing the outcome is irrelevant since all possible outcomes exist at the same time for God. The attributes omnipotent and omniscient are simply given to help our point of view since that is what they relate to.

By stating that, you also infer that we are inconceivable to god.

Again, imagine that picture of a maze, with every possible outcome. We're a spec in the way.

We mean nothing to god.

Why pray to a god who doesnt hear us?

Hrmmm...

(edit for spellos)

[edit on 2/20/2009 by bloodcircle]

Originally posted by badmedia

The only reason there is a "chain" is because you are attaching them to me. Go ahead and break those links, they don't link to me. They aren't and never have been my beliefs. And if you do break a link in my "chain", not the chains you attach to me, I will thank you for doing so.

Since when was my post about you directly? Read it again please! I think you will find that the chain metaphor was applied to the weak links in the religious arguments for god. Here - I'll post again what you said on page one.

You always want to argue against the worse arguments you can find and then act as if that is the only description of god or anything as such. Things which are clearly misunderstood. When pressed with other points of view, it's "moving the goal posts".

Linky

Now apply what I said in my previous post to the post above. Surely a simple task?

IRM

reply to post by nj2day


Thank you for the reply. You are indeed busy. So I suppose I can respect that for a reason to not debate ideas of philosophy. It can become involved and requires long pauses for thought. It is much easier to keep to observable perceptions and deduce them to be facts.

However, as you know that cat was a thought experiment. So changing the parameters to glean information that doesn't truly exist invalidates the experiment. You see, the box may have been airtight or contained its own air supply for the cat. The acid trap may have been a lie to cause pressure for an answer to prey upon your feelings to "save" the cat. There may in fact been no cat at all.

That is the problem with the god/cat debate. Empirical data is hard to obtain when you are incapable of direct physical observation. Nor posses the tools to make an accurate measure. But it remains possible that the vial of acid is in there and so might be the cat also.

I have to touch on the subject of history because it does apply to this topic as well. History is only what the writers agree to be true in conjunction with their audience. Quite a few know about the slaughter that the Canadian Forces faced on D-Day. Fewer know that the Tuskegee Airmen did indeed lose a few bombers under their escort to enemy fighters. People will argue as to if the US Military would ever fire on US civilians if ordered, to put down an insurrection...only those that know about the events of the Battle of Blair Mountain know for sure.

Don't feel bad about the cat though...he has plenty of company with Pavlov's Dog...Which if you think about it, this thread is the bell and here we all are drooling away with our posts, expecting a meal.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by Ahabstar]

God is about Judgement, Jesus is about Love and Forgiveness.

I say go for Jesus.

Originally posted by dbates
You misquoted the "video" (Which is nothing but static text displayed for 9 seconds).

The god of the bible is claimed to be omnipotent and omniscient.

If you can change the future, you are not omniscient. If you cannot you are not omnipotent.

Myth busted.

God is in the 10th dimension. The Universe is an unchanging static image for him. Imagine yourself looking at a picture of a maze from above with a line drawn to every possible outcome. Changing the outcome is irrelevant since all possible outcomes exist at the same time for God. The attributes omnipotent and omniscient are simply given to help our point of view since that is what they relate to.

Jesus Christ! we had to wait until string theory came along to find out where god is hidden.......well if it really is the 10th dimension then he/she is incredibly small since dimensions 5 to 10 are bound up in the calabi-yau.

What you should have said is that God is in the 11th dimension. At least then you whould have had God encompassing all branes (universes).

or even a 5-7 second answer

OBSERVATION OF HISTORY

disease
war
racism
violence

DONE AND DONE

When one comes to realize that ONE IS the Universe that is Enlightenment. It is our preception of the self that is limited and thus limits our knowledge and our potentialiy. The Creator Gives us complete autonomy in order to Evolve our Consiousness. Our Power of choice cannot be superceeded not even by God himself! For if he were to undercut free will, he would undercut the power to develope higher emotions. The very reason he created us is to have someone develope their own mind to grow to understand him through their own efforts of using their power of will to develope their own consciousness.

If you cage a bird for almost its entire life, if you were to leave that cage door open for one moment it would escape forever and never come back. Unconditional Love is a Love that Frees the other person. Frees from Control. From the need to Control.

The Future is maleable for we are co creators not by ourselves or against him but WITH. One thing that cannot be disputed is that life is the sum of our Choices. Even a non Decision is still a decision to not act. Would you Agree ?

What we think is consciousness is no where near what actuall conscioussness. As a Buddhist would say. Everything is mind alone. The material world is just a manifestation non corporeal world. Similiar to Bohms "enfolded" and "unfolded" universes. His theory fault is it still lays in duality. The Creator is omnipotent for his Consciousness holds up the entire material reality as well as the non-corporeal.

The only God that you can really prove that exists is MONEY.

They will do everything to get it.
They prostitute themselves for a pittance.
They humiliate each other.
They destroy other people's lives.
You could on on with that list until you feel nauseous. I already feel nauseous.

I neither believe nor disbelieve in God. I know there is something, but I can't label it. What I definitely don't do and it probably makes sense to a lot of people is: I don't take things at face value.

I chose to experience. I have been experiencing. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or in the wacky coconut behind Mars.

If you do good, it will come back to you. What goes around, comes around. But don't do it for a selfish reason. It must come from your heart with pure intention to do good. That's the problem for many people.

Greetings

[edit on 20-2-2009 by TheWriter]