Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by badmedia

 

Sorry BM,

I started to type up a lenghty response to your rantings, but decided against it...

You seem to not be able to get over the fact that there might be absolutely nothing to consciousness.

there might be absolutely nothing special about it... its just the individual who deems it important, and thinks that its critical to explain it...

I can't possibly stress enough about how consciousness is only chemicals and brainwaves... you refuse to even entertain that idea... apparently in your mind, there is a deep seated desire to find importance in this very primitive life function...

Until you get over the desire to paint yourself as "special", there can be no discussion.

You haven't even bothered to explain why its necessary to assign such importance on this... but oh well..

Chemicals and brains waves are what provides the conversion of what is "out there" to your consciousness. Your body is a machine, and so it works off logic, no randomness to the body. It is of the physical. You are basically saying that these things are presenting themselves to each other.

What is so important is because it's about what your true self is. If you can't understand your true self, then what I say isn't going to seem possible to you. Just as I think we have demonstrated here pretty clearly.

As this is within everyone, not just me there is nothing "special" about it in such terms, what is "special" about it is that this part of us is not a part of creation.

But whatever, I guess if you wanna think consciousness is just somekind of chemical reaction, go right ahead. I guess it's just an understanding you will eventually have to come to on your own. You keep saying things like how I'm just doing it to feel special or warm and fuzzy, but in reality I think the same could just as easily be explained of you. As you perhaps fear the idea of something being greater than and beyond you, making you not feel so special, when you don't have "superior" genetics or physical characteristics over others. Both are still assumptions though.

the question becomes "What are you?" and the answer is simple. You are the frequency of energy that your body's brain happens to generate.

That entire frequency of energy is YOU. Not all of it is trapped in your body, most of it is dispersed throughout all of totality.

Not all of it is trapped within space/time. this is why you experience past lives, deja vu, ghost phenomena, etc....

Have fun with the thoughts that this idea generates.

Jaden

Originally posted by TheAbstract
We prove that God doesn't exist every single day....God wants peace, we make war.....God wants love, we give hate.....God says not to think about the WORLDLY things and focus on him....Guess what God...I LIVE IN THE WORLD SO I HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE.....oh and supposedly you put me here so your sadistic a** is probably loving the fact that we're all suffering down here....thanks for looking out God

I truly feel sorry for you. You don't exist solely in the and of the world, only a small part of you does. If you choose to focus on that part, then it is to your detriment....

You are a part of God, you chose to be here before you were ever born, you choose to be here now in more than one way.

If you can't let go of your earthly desires and bindings, then like I said I feel sorry for you.

It's not easy and I can't claim that I have succeeded, but remember, perfection is a road, not a destination.

Jaden

Originally posted by nj2day

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Cant resist adding my two cents on this one....

I have seen far more people who have set out to prove God does not exist become Christians, than I have seen become atheists.

Thats because you cruise with people of similar beliefs most likely...

Any atheist who sets out to prove god doesn't exist is a moron... You can not disprove the existence of anything... this is a given...

now what we can do... as the OP has done... is prove that the description of the god in question cannot exist as presented...

Im pretty sure I saw you castigate someone for making an assumption about "you guys". Let me return the favor. The people I "cruise" with range from Wiccan high priestesses to lifelong Christians, from those that were virgins on their wedding night to those best described as adventureous, to those lucky to be able to flip burgers to a few that hold jobs in research physics. In other words, I actively seek out people with different beliefs/views than the ones I hold.

As to the other part, I guess I should have better described what I meant. Rational, well educated people have set out to show that the Holy Bible/existance of Jesus Christ was nothing more than a fable and that believing in an all knowing, all seeing God was not a rational act....and in the end the majority of them (a few of them are still not sure, but no longer call themselves atheists) have found themselves believing in God due to the research they did.

reply to post by Gregor100


I believe in

The creator, not the god of the bible, if anything is accurate about the bible it was created by a race who found us and used the bible as a control of us, by using god as them to worship.

The god in the bible is a bunch of poo.

reply to post by badmedia


This is where it gets complicated, when talking about choice.
Because in a sense we do have a choice, but then again we really don't...
Whatever I "choose" is attached to many different things such as past experiences, societal influences, the way I was raised, etc.

To us it appears that we have free-will, but anyone who created the domino effect we call the universe would know exactly what would influence us and thus, him being the maker, our free-will becomes irrelevant.

Did Hitler have a choice?
Yes, in a sense. But that choice is irrelevant because it's only an illusion - he was never going to be any different.
If you could rewind the universe and play that section of History over again, it would be exactly the same. This is because the variables effecting his thought process would have been the same, and he ultimately would have made the same choice BASED ON those variables. His choice was decided by the variables, and thus (in the case of a creator) the maker of the variables.

It's exactly like a computer program.
if(x=1) do this;
if(x=2) do that;

WE can see the variables, so we can determine the outcome every time.
To a lesser mind (say one within the program, if that were possible), there would appear to be a choice - but in reality, the choice is already made.
Likewise, an all knowing God could see the variable that effect us and know the outcome.

Just take a step back and look at everything: past, present, and future.
It's like a painting - from that perspective, it's set in stone and the equation has played itself out.
We can only be what we are (past, present, and future).


All that I've said is true and must be true on the basis that no thought or action is void of a source - that's impossible.

We are more similar to computer programs than we would like to think...

Originally posted by lunarminer
The fallacy in your argument is the same as the OP. There is a difference between knowing that something is going to happen and being the cause of it.

For instance suppose you are a witness to a car accident? You are standing on the street corner and you see two cars coming towards each other and you realize that they will collide. Did you cause the accident? No, of course not.

Now you say, but God is omnipotent and therefore he caused the accident because he didn't stop it. Actually this is a second fallacy, because simply being able to stop the accident doesn't make you the cause either. The actual situation has not changed except that you are not powerless to stop the accident.

You're right - he didn't cause the accident because he didn't stop it, he caused the accident because he created the universe, knowing everything, to be exactly what it is.

Meh, just to put it simply...

God created Satan.
At the time he created Satan, he knew what Satan would later become.

3 choices:
1) Do not create Satan
2) Create him differently
3) Create Satan to be evil

It is obvious that he chose #3.
It is also obvious that he is responsible for everything that came after, as he created Satan TO be evil as he had a choice NOT TO.

Now, I already know what Christians would say...
He did not create Satan TO be evil, that was merely Satan's choice...
But that is ridiculous! Because God would have KNOWN.
That's essentially like blaming the gun for firing instead of the person who pulled the trigger!
Knowledge AND action DOES MAKE YOU RESPONSIBLE!
Such an easy concept that few people look at...

This same logic can be applied to EVERYTHING in our Universe when you understand that such a being, creator of all, would also be directly responsible for all.

Which, once you truly think about it and drop all bias, makes the idea of judgment absurd to say the least.

Originally posted by Gregor100
www.youtube.com...

If you cant be bothered going to youtube the video says this:

"The god of the bible is claimed to be omnipotent and omniscient.

If you can change the future you are not omniscient.

If you cannot you are not omnipotent.

Myth busted"

Pretty hard evidence right there....

Edit - Well spotted out i mis-quoted... wooops..

om⋅nis⋅cient

1. having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.
2. an omniscient being.
3. the Omniscient, God.

om·nip·o·tent

1: often capitalized : almighty 1
2: having virtually unlimited authority or influence
3: obsolete : arrant

The quote is "If you can change the future you are not omniscient". I don't understand, what does the future have to do with having unlimited knowledge?

The other quote is "If you cannot you are not omnipotent."

God can change the future which ever way he so desires, because GOD IS ALL THINGS, GOD IS THE FUTURE, THE PAST, AND EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS. It states this in the Bible too...

GOD = The entire universe, all light and all darkness, all the matter and anti-matter, every WORD you speak, every sound you hear, every thing you sense, is GOD.

Just seeing with your eyes, and hearing with your ears, is proof that GOD exists, because we live INSIDE of GOD.

We grew off of God's body. The entire universe is God's body.

If you don't believe in God, that means technically that you don't believe that YOU exist. Do you exist?

All I know is, if my right hand started to tell me I didn't exist, and my right hand started to do things that I didn't allow, I would try to teach it a lesson, and punish it, so that it can learn and know why it is wrong. If that doesn't work, I would cut it off my body and throw it into a fire.


[edit on 20-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by lunarminer
LOL!

So let me get this straight...you are saying that the Bible (a book that you don't believe in) gives proof that God does not exist? That is circular logic and it is one of the biggest fallacies traps for any argument.

I never said it's proof that God doesn't exist, I said it's proof that the God described in the Bible does not exist.

If I wrote a book, and in one chapter I said "my hair is completely black and always has been" and then in another chapter I said "my hair is completely blond and always has been".
You can not disprove that my hair was not black or that my hair was not blond, but you can prove that my book is inaccurate.

Likewise, the description of God in the Bible must be inaccurate at best, because there are numerous opposing verses and descriptions of God.

Philosophy is not truth, usually it's poor thinking. Omniscient means being consciously aware of everything. Omnipotence means having the power to effect anything and everything. It doesn't mean doing everything. The future changes somewhat based on the karmic responses of the individual spirits. This is because they have a certain tethered rope of "free will" to act on their own and carry out their desires. The spirits "Free Will" is their participation in the process of their purification and recovery to a fully conscious state ie salvation. The Supreme Being does not do everything because it is not merciful. The impurities/flaws in the covers of the spirits sent here are real, tangible impurities. There is no more merciful method for their eradication of impurities than to exhaust them by the method underway. Force by the Supreme Being would not lead to as good a result. The Supreme Being knows what is best and is providing all assistance possible, relative to the current karmic condition at the moment of each individual spirit. God, however, is in reality the Devil not the Supreme Being. The Devil is the embodiment of the mind and the embodiment of the karmic impurities and thus facilitates their exhaustion by stimulating their expression in the individual spirits.

I think the real problem is,

NONE OF YOU READ THE BIBLE.

Seriously, if you think you did, you are lying to yourself. The Bible is not a book that is only read once. You have to read the Bible, front to back, at LEAST 3 times to actually understand some of the things said in the Bible.

Even 3 times is not enough.

Have you ever watched a movie more than once, and noticed things you didn't notice the first time? Well the Bible is designed like that....

IMO, Even if you read the Bible 1 time, you didn't truly read the entire thing.

So, people only pick and choose passages that they feel contradicts the Bible.... They don't even understand that all the books in the Bible are written by different people, at different times, yet some reason they think the Bible is 1 book, written by 1 person. Makes me want the throw up.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
Just seeing with your eyes, and hearing with your ears, is proof that GOD exists, because we live INSIDE of GOD.

We grew off of God's body. The entire universe is God's body.

If you don't believe in God, that means technically that you don't believe that YOU exist. Do you exist?

Hmmm.. let me try that! Looks fun


Just seeing with your eyes, and hearing with your ears, is proof that Zeus exists, because we live INSIDE of Zeus.

We grew off of Zeus body. The entire universe is Zeus body.

If you don't believe in Zeus, that means technically that you don't believe that YOU exist. Do you exist?


Damn, I bet you feel silly now for not believing in Zeus!
Where's Hercules when you need him?

[edit on 20-2-2009 by TruthParadox]

reply to post by TruthParadox


WOW, you are so lost, I can't help but laugh. You remind me of a mouse in a maze, however, you have a blindfold on. I can't help but laugh when mice run into walls.

TruthParadox, I bet you $100000000000000000000000000000 that you can not answer this following question, correctly. You will most probably think I am talking about a place on this Earth.

Where are you?

[edit on 20-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

I would be a complete idiot, a huge moron, the dumbest person on Earth, if I didn't believe that I was created by nature.

All of nature = our creator.

God is a name for "our creator".

[edit on 20-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
WOW, you are so lost, I can't help but laugh. You remind me of a mouse in a maze, however, you have a blindfold on. I can't help but laugh when mice run into walls.

Why is that?
Because I pointed out the obvious fact (while using humor) that your words meant so little and were so vague, that I could insert the name of any other god and be just as 'accurate'?

Or are you laughing to cover up the insecurity in yourself which is telling you that I have a point while you instead choose to ignore it?

Sorry, but I must inform you that you are being extremely transparent.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
TruthParadox, I bet you $100000000000000000000000000000 that you can not answer this following question, correctly. You will most probably think I am talking about a place on this Earth.

Where are you?

Well, I have an idea that your super secret special answer begins with a "G" and ends with a "d".
Seeing as how you said, and I quote:

we live INSIDE of GOD.

Where's my $100000000000000000000000000000, or are you going to change your view of which deity we live in just to avoid being in debt to an online stranger?

The Bible isn't meant to be analyzed because if someone's trying to find a contradiction then they'll find one; because that's what they're looking for. The Bible isn't about picking through and finding phrases that don't match. It has a bigger message to it. And those who are looking for the message will find it, and those who aren't will not.

"But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul." - Deuteronomy 4:29

[edit on 20-2-2009 by Totakeke]

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
I think the real problem is,

NONE OF YOU READ THE BIBLE.

Seriously, if you think you did, you are lying to yourself. The Bible is not a book that is only read once. You have to read the Bible, front to back, at LEAST 3 times to actually understand some of the things said in the Bible.

Even 3 times is not enough.

Have you ever watched a movie more than once, and noticed things you didn't notice the first time? Well the Bible is designed like that....

IMO, Even if you read the Bible 1 time, you didn't truly read the entire thing.

So, people only pick and choose passages that they feel contradicts the Bible.... They don't even understand that all the books in the Bible are written by different people, at different times, yet some reason they think the Bible is 1 book, written by 1 person. Makes me want the throw up.

This is only relevant if you believe that the Bible is absolute fact. I believe I said something about this already:

Originally posted by Psygod
The only proof for the Christian god is the Bible because the Bible is supposed to be the word of God, yet it was written by men. Men are corrupt, we lie, we scheme... we do things to achieve our own ends. How do we know why the Bible was written, how do we think that it is anything special? Because "it is the word of God" Oh really? And who told us that? The men who wrote it? Yeah...

reply to post by Gregor100


You are actually attempting to prove that God is not BOTH omnipotent and omniscient. You make no attempt to prove God is fake, let alone, in under ten seconds as you allude to in the thread title.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by speaker]

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Why is that?
Because I pointed out the obvious fact (while using humor) that your words meant so little and were so vague, that I could insert the name of any other god and be just as 'accurate'?

FACT?

Please explain to me why you believe that changing a name from God to Zeus would actually change the meaning of the rest of the words that I said??

I said God IS EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS.

You say Zeus IS EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS.

You can give GOD any name you want, as long as you know -insert name here- IS EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS.

All light, all dark, all electrons, protons, neutrons, all the 4 fundamental forces, Earth, the Moon, the Sun, the Stars, everthing that is, is my creator, and that will be true no matter what name you call all of those things combined.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Or are you laughing to cover up the insecurity in yourself which is telling you that I have a point while you instead choose to ignore it?

I'm really laughing because you and many people in this world are really really really utterly lost. You can't even find BASIC TRUTH. The basic truth that you were made from sperm and egg, which are both made of electrons and protons and neutrons, electricity, and light.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Well, I have an idea that your super secret special answer begins with a "G" and ends with a "d".
Seeing as how you said, and I quote:

we live INSIDE of GOD.

Where's my $100000000000000000000000000000, or are you going to change your view of which deity we live in just to avoid being in debt to an online stranger?

I asked "Where are you?", I didn't ask "What are we in?".

When someone asks you a question, USUALY they give you their own answer. However, you decided to copy and paste a complete strangers words, and use it for the answer.

You just proved that you don't have a mind of your own. You can't think for yourself. And that you don't know where you are. That means you are lost.


[edit on 20-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
I said God IS EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS.

You say Zeus IS EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS.

You can give GOD any name you want, as long as you know -insert name here- IS EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS.

lol, nice try... Except when you say "God", you tie it to the Bible and believe what is written therein.
It's not just a name, because you know the meaning behind it.
If you changed it to Zeus, would you also believe the mythology behind that?
Hercules, Hades, etc...
It's not just a name, because it was painfully obvious that you used it as a platform to suggest that the God described in the BIBLE is accurate.

If it is just a name, then why not call "everything that exists" the Universe?
But it's quite obvious that you didn't simply mean "everything that exists", but instead "everything that exists, oh and the Bible is accurate and there is a creator".

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
All light, all dark, all electrons, protons, neutrons, all the 4 fundamental forces, Earth, the Moon, the Sun, the Stars, everthing that is, is my creator, and that will be true no matter what name you call all of those things combined.

So then you were not talking about God, you were talking about the Universe which you call God. There is a mythology here that you are conveniently ignoring .

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
I asked "Where are you?", I didn't ask "What are we in?".

lmao whatever... don't be a sore loser .

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
When someone asks you a question, USUALY they give you their own answer. However, you decided to copy and paste a complete strangers words, and use it for the answer.

Well no friggin s***... Because you were testing me BASED on YOUR answer...
This is sad...

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
You just proved that you don't have a mind of your own. You can't think for yourself. And that you don't know where you are. That means you are lost.

No, lol... My answer would have been that I live in Tennessee in the United States on a planet called Earth.

But if I had said that, I would not get to collect that money you owe me ...

Originally posted by Gregor100
www.youtube.com...

If you cant be bothered going to youtube the video says this:

"The god of the bible is claimed to be omnipotent and omniscient.

If you can change the future you are not omniscient.

If you cannot you are not omnipotent.

Myth busted"

Pretty hard evidence right there....

Edit - Well spotted out i mis-quoted... wooops..

[edit on 19/2/09 by Gregor100]

Pretty brainless ideas. Our creators believed in the omniscient God but were not in fact the one true omniscient God. They played god in other words.

The god/gods in the bible are many Annunaki rolled into one god. Still not the God they believed in.