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9/11: Tired of the Blame Game

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posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 10:07 AM
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I am so sick of the ridiculous partisanship I have seen on the television and even here on ATS where 9/11 is concerned. You simply cannot logically lay the blame of 9/11 at the feet of the Bush administration.

Although it is true that 9/11 happened on Bush's watch, Bush had only been in the White House for 8 1/2 months when 9/11 occurred, while those who carried out this tragedy had been gaining in strength and boldness for the last decade.

Where was the intelligence during this time?

The intelligence community was grossly understaffed, underfunded and bound by bulky bureacracy and laws such as the one that disallowed the CIA to use anyone with a criminal past - (police aren't even bound like this, ie: paid informers, etc).

So why the intelligence breakdown?

Al Gore headed up a National Performance Review in 1995 that involved 14 "initiatives" to "reinvent" the intelligence community.
In a Clinton White House presidential news release entitled, "Vice President Gore Announces Reforms For Intellegence Community" dated on December 13th, 1995 it was proudly announced that;

"As a result of (Al Gore's) reforms today and others that are underway, the intelligence agencies are cutting costs and reducing bureaucracy. The three largest agencies, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, and the Defense Intelligence Agency, are reducing their personnel at a rate more than twice the rate of the rest of government. By 1999, these agencies will have reduced personnel by 25 percent."

So while the following incidents happened, the US intelligence services were gutted by eliminating 25% of their personnel.

1993: the World Trade Center was bombed which killed six and injured 1,000.

1993: Blackhawk down incident in Somalia, which killed 18 U.S. military personnel.

1995: bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S. military personnel.

1996: Khobar Towers bombing, Saudi Arabia which killed 19 and injured 200 U.S. military personnel.

1998: bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and injured 5,000.

2000: USS Cole bombing, which killed 17 and injured 39 U.S. sailors.

According to a Nov. 7, 2001 Barbara Walters interview on ABC News with Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Clinton administration could have done more in the intelligence sector to prevent 9/11 from happening.
The Russian intelligence community was warning the Clinton administration about the developing capabilities of terrorist organizations funded by Saudi money in Afghanistan... "Russian officials said the Americans showed little interest in the warning. "We certainly were counting on a more active cooperation in combating international terrorism," Putin told Walters".
ABC News: Barbara Walters Interview of Russian Pres. Vladimir Putin

I could continue, but my purpose is not to show that Clinton is to fault, it is to show that the Bush administration - however and whatever you may think of them, is not solidly to blame for 9/11... nor is the Clinton administration, but there is certainly adequate documented proof as seen above to demonstrate that policies and politicization of the U.S. intelligence community over a number of years contributed to the lack of information on the gathering threat of Al Queida.

Stop the finger pointing and the repugnant name calling - at least on this issue - because no one administration is to blame.




posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 10:12 AM
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Bravo...


That's exactly what I've been wanting to say, just couldn't find the words.

One thought that keep coming to my mind is ;

Exactly what was President Bush supposed to do ? I mean, now that the "brief" has been released and with all of the other pre 9/11 information..

Was he supposed to shut down all of the airports ?

Arrest and detain all middle eastern born people here in the U.S. ?

Evacuate all of the Sky Scrapers in large cities ?

what, exactly what was he supposed to do ?



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 10:46 AM
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I agree completely. Unless there is information that has been hidden by one of the agencies showing that they knew exactly what would happen and where, which I doubt, you can't blame it on Bush.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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Great post intelgurl.


Too bad some of our more confused fellow posters will not be able to read it and have it make sense to them. No matter what you hit them with they will always be confused.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 10:50 AM
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Well said.

Sadly, I doubt this or any kind of reasoning can overcome the hatred that Democrats have for the Bush admin. They will continue to look the other way because it fits their agenda.

Of course, if this had happened under a Gore administration, it would be his dads fault.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 11:14 AM
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Im neither republican or democrat, conservative or liberal. The attempt to pigeon-hole people that see what is happening around them only diminishes your own chances at seeing the truth. Blind devotion will be your downfall.
There is no 'blame game'. Its not a partisen issue.
There is only truth, and the truth is clear to any that are willing to look. 911 was an inside job. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. The facts dont lie.
wanttoknow.info
pyshics911.org
911timeline.net



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by aware
The facts dont lie.
wanttoknow.info
pyshics911.org
911timeline.net


No, but those websites sure do seem to have an uncanny ability to warp the facts into proof that their allegations are true.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 11:21 AM
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IMHO, if those sites had the above said "truth", why are they not using this information to "press charges", per se'?
If what they have is straight fact and amounts to factual evidences, and it is a crime, etc....I really don't care if this is a gov. inside job....seems that legal recourse would be happening or have happened, eh?

I'd be interested in hearing that response aware.



seekerof

[Edited on 15-4-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 11:26 AM
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Intelgurl, nicely done as always. I haven't found a post of yours that was not worth reading yet. The blame game is nothing more than politics and will never change. If Gore had been in office his administration would get the blame.

I have the feeling you work for or in govt. If I'm wrong, apologies, it just seems like you are better connected from an intel and defense contractor perspective than others on this site. If I'm not wrong then you know the kind of crapt that goes on.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by aware
The facts dont lie.
wanttoknow.info
pyshics911.org
911timeline.net


No, but those websites sure do seem to have an uncanny ability to warp the facts into proof that their allegations are true.



It's a lot like statistics -- if you search hard enough you will find one that always fits your argument. That's why statistics.com is so nice.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 11:51 AM
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A problem of our TV culture: a short attention span. "An issue takes a long time to sort out? " Let's just stop sorting.
" The party in power stonewall's investigations, denies the need for a committee to investigate anything, has a completely partisan puff question session in play everytime a Republican is asking the questions forcing the Dems on the panel to dig in?" Let's just all get along.

The overseas attacks were overseas attacks - you can't dictate the security levels of a foreign land. The WTC bombing on the domestic front...how many more domestic incidents occurred aftewards on Clinton's watch?


"As a result of (Al Gore's) reforms today and others that are underway, the intelligence agencies are cutting costs and reducing bureaucracy. The three largest agencies, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, and the Defense Intelligence Agency, are reducing their personnel at a rate more than twice the rate of the rest of government. By 1999, these agencies will have reduced personnel by 25 percent."

This is a missappropriated sound byte.

- The Clinton team was all about small government. They, from the listed source, had the smallest federal government in 20 years. Relevant to the above, that meant cancelling out redundancy in 13 agencies. As with the Imagery & mapping function outlined in the source, it increased service levels for a function that was appropriated with a pooled budget of 13, as opposed to what each individual agency could account for..... = much more buying power & increased tech sophistication.

- Headcount: bloated federal governments under 12 years of Republican rule led to a ton of Chiefs & not enough Indians. They took the private sector wisdom of cutting middle management; "You're a G1 with 20 yrs expereience, so we have to make you a G3". There are "lifers" on the Fed payrolls, everyone knows that.
They simply trimmed the fat.
It's a complete misconception to equate that 25% reduction with it being a 100% Field Operatives; it was closer to 100% Middle Management & Redundant back office functions that could be consolidated.

Opinions on a board are going to be partisan for partisanships sake for all those who can't think themselves out of a paper bag. But there are more than enough prominent Republicans shouting down this administration for accountability on Iraq & 9/11 for you to try & paint it as blindly partisan on that level.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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True that there is a lot of blame going on. Well, if the Intelligence Agencies were underfunded, what has the current Government done to alleviate this fact? The Government did not decide right away to up Intelligence Agency funding, what they decided to do was blame some one else for their own problems. Alongside the fact that they blamed a terrorist organization(s) for their own problems, they also justified taking more freedoms from the people.

Hmm, the Government can spend Billions on a war, but they don't want to increase Intelligence spending. I think that stuff like 9/11 is an inside job and the Government had the most to benefit from it, not some lame terrorist(s) from a cave.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 11:57 AM
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Intelgurl, I am tired of the blame game too and more recently I am beginning to look past the republican/democratic bickering to see this goes far deeper....think Skull and Bones...this particular connections seems to continually resurface and even though I am tired of the blame game, someone needs to be or still has to face the brunt of the blame.

[Edited on 4-15-2004 by worldwatcher]



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 12:04 PM
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Excellant post ! I couldn't agree more ! Why are we as a nation so preoccupied with placing blame on all those except who is responsible.

The fact remains that sure there was a threat posed but did they know where, when, and by what means?

Thats like saying there is going to be a murder in the USA, sometime in the future....DUH. Now what do you do with this information? I Guess the powers that be could run around stompoing on everybodys constitutional rights and freedoms to TRY and prevent it. But by doing this would they now not catch major hell for doing it, even thou it may have stopped it? Damed if ya do and damed if you dont.

911 is no differant, are we suggesting that
all of the muslims should have been gathered up and incarcerated at that point? should all the the airports have been shut down indefinately? All air space closed off indefinately?

I DON'T THINK SO !!!!



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
IMHO, if those sites had the above said "truth", why are they not using this information to "press charges"...

I'd be interested in hearing that response aware.
seekerof

[Edited on 15-4-2004 by Seekerof]


I wish i could link u to the story posted my Truelies, Cracking the egg. Legal recourse has been taken, but we all know (atleast those of us that are 'aware') that the legal system is not the 'pillar of justice' it should be.
Look into those sites, tell me they are twisting stats to fit their theory.
I believe a little background is in order here.
I have never been political. I have never been outspoken. I am not an activist nor have i ever been part of any group with any agenda. I am not a conpiracy theorist either. I stumbled onto a story about Ellen Mariani sueing king george about six months ago, and was surprised that i had not heard about it before that (being an avid news fan) Well I looked into her case, and it blew my mind. So i spent 3 months devouring any 911 information i could get my hands on.
Here i am, half a year later, after countless hours of research, trying to convince people on a conpiracy board to just look at the facts. Im not putting out a theory, im saying look at the facts. Is the official story automaticly true because its 'official'? You folks need to look back at history, and see how many times the US GOV has lied to you, only to be exposed in the end. Its nothing for a politician to lie. Its part of the job, many will tell you.
seekerof, i implore you to look into this, be true to your name.
About halfway through my research i was forced to drop the 'theory' from 'conspiracy theory'.
"in the right light, study becomes insight" Zack D



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by intelgurl

I could continue, but my purpose is not to show that Clinton is to fault, it is to show that the Bush administration - however and whatever you may think of them, is not solidly to blame for 9/11... nor is the Clinton administration, but there is certainly adequate documented proof as seen above to demonstrate that policies and politicization of the U.S. intelligence community over a number of years contributed to the lack of information on the gathering threat of Al Queida.

Stop the finger pointing and the repugnant name calling - at least on this issue - because no one administration is to blame.



Intelgurl,

These statements are what I hope to prove out in my Flight to 911 series, what I am finding in my research is that ALL administrations were lax - but more importantly all of the western world for sure. In the 90's Egypt was BEGGING the world to help them combat terrorism and get these fanatical groups under control. Guess what they got from the U.N. and Europe? Every time they would have a trial and find one guilty and execute them they would be jumped on as barbaric. That's their right as a sovereign nation - if your legal system says "guilty of terrorism wins execution" everybody else needs to BUT out. They finally got tired of being beat up on the international scene.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 01:09 PM
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With all respect for everyone, but how come US is fighting a war in Iraq against peoples who had nothing to do with 9/11 in the first place while the one they say did it is still free "walking around" and sending out tapes... ??? Why not send 100.000+ troops to find him and get him in court ? Talking about courts, how many 9/11 trials did we see so far ? How many did they arrest ?

It's just make no sense, but I don't have much time right now to explain what I mean... I will post more later..



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by TigeriS
With all respect for everyone, but how come US is fighting a war in Iraq against peoples who had nothing to do with 9/11 in the first place while the one they say did it is still free "walking around" and sending out tapes... ??? Why not send 100.000+ troops to find him and get him in court ? Talking about courts, how many 9/11 trials did we see so far ? How many did they arrest ?

It's just make no sense, but I don't have much time right now to explain what I mean... I will post more later..



this one's easy...

WMD's my man, WMD's, oh yeah, and they might have been harbouring some terrorist...



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 01:32 PM
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Only in America! we have spare no expense, exhausted numorious resources to find someone to blame. what the h&ll are we doing? was is the Bush Admin that drove the highjackers to the airport and loaded them on those planes? was it the FBI and CIA that gave them the tickets. NO! how about putting the blame on the Highjackers , (novel idea) , or the orginazations/countries that did support them. I just could not believe that anyone would actually try to blame 911 on the United States,(until I watched the band of sorry a$$ed americans on the 911 board).

The CIA and FBI have had thier budgets cut every year, they were told to do more while they were being cut back. What fools those are who believe that they could have prevented it! Face reality, at time the spirt, good or bad, can be stronger than the warrior's sword.
I am positive that if the CIA or FBI would have went in front of congress in 2000 and reported to them that on Sept. 11th three planes would be highjacked and flown into the towers and pentigon, they would have gotten the resourses, but guess what the batteries were dead in the crystal ball and they did not know. If this were Sept 12th, 2001 do you think the Bush admin. would be under fire for Iraq? No the typicial American way has sat in we have now become complacant. Nothing will change until we are hit again. then we will rally round the flag for awhile until we become bored or it goes out of style. then we will get hit again.
I agree strongly with those of you who are tired of the blame game. lets blame those who did it and dispense swift and overwhelming justice!



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by greyghost
Only in America! we have spare no expense, exhausted numorious resources to find someone to blame. what the h&ll are we doing? was is the Bush Admin that drove the highjackers to the airport and loaded them on those planes? was it the FBI and CIA that gave them the tickets. NO! how about putting the blame on the Highjackers , (novel idea) , or the orginazations/countries that did support them. I just could not believe that anyone would actually try to blame 911 on the United States,(until I watched the band of sorry a$$ed americans on the 911 board).
...........
I agree strongly with those of you who are tired of the blame game.

You are a contradiction in action.
Your signature says it all.
Politicians are full of #e. SO WHY do you then adhere to their story? Is it safe to say that those who follow/believe the 'full if #e' politicians are themselves full of #e? Its like saying 'i know he is a lier, but i believe what he says'
Have you looked at any of those sites i mentioned earlier, or are you just spouting the party line without even investigating it? Are you one of those that refuses to look at the evidence, because 'it cant possibly be true'?
If so you are either ignorant or scared, but then again, those traits tend to go hand in hand.




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