Holder: U.S. a 'Nation of Cowards' on Race Discussions

reply to post by djvexd


It's more like white history is the only history we're taught in school. We spend 12 years learning about America and Europe over and over again, so why do we need any months to do that again?

Mr. Holder has his opinions. Some people take advantage of the bully pulpit and he is apparently going to do so. He wants to be a hero. Obama will reign him in if he starts getting too out of hand.

The entire hyphenated American thing is annoying. We should not be "celebrating diversity" we should be celebrating unity. The idea that we can't let some "culture" or another die off is ludicrous. If it's worth anything it will last or change; if not it will disappear. Cultures die off all the time and that is called change. Interestingly, when the hyphenates return to the old country to wallow in celebration of their ancestry and dispense favors on distant relatives, they often discover that the residents want to go to America. Surprise.

The other thing that is dividing the US is the multiple language affliction that is now prevalent. The language of the land should be English. Catering to Spanish speaking peoples facilitates their continued use of Spanish and guarantees their isolation for generations while the rest of the country passes them by. They can speak Spanish at home or in the neighborhood if they choose, but it should be English anywhere else or the melting pot won't be able to incorporate them and they will lose many of the opportunities that they came to find.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
America is not a nation of cowards
Just a nation of self-contradiction

Self-contradiction?

How so?

I'm kind of curious about which America he's talking about? My part of America is very "un"segragated, and issues of race are discussed sometimes very vociferously.

An American, supposedly a well informed on, he is after all Attorney General; so out of touch with most of America is not exactly filling me with confidence...

I'm not denying there are still issues to be resolved, but these discussions have been taking place since before I was born, and I'm in my late 40's.

reply to post by seagull


It is still kind of dicey in my part of America. A lot of places in the South still kind of resemble pre-Civil Rights era society.

But, it is the fault of both sides....not just one.

My town is on the larger side, so there aren't that many "racial" problems here. But, in smaller Southern communities, it can get bad at times.

reply to post by skeptic1



True enough, skeptic... Different regions have different issues. But I'm still curious as to why he felt it neccessary to stereotype like that... I'm aware that there are issues still to resolve, but to apparently deny that any progress has been made is to deny the reality of the situation. IMHO.

It would seem to me that our new A.G. is talking out of both sides of his mouth, would it not???

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by seagull


His whole point seemed to be societal integration....how blacks and whites don't seem to socialize outside of the workplace:

"On Saturdays and Sundays, America in the year 2009 does not, in some ways, differ significantly from the country that existed some 50 years ago. This is truly sad," Holder said.

(from the article cited in my original post)

And, as far as that goes, it is the fault of individuals and groups, not the nation as a whole.

We tend to socialize with our friends and our families in our own comfort zones. That, to me, isn't a racial thing; it's a human thing.

reply to post by Snisha


That's extremely interesting, Snisha. Very interesting, indeed...

Someone, yourself maybe, needs to look abit further into this one.

This isn't a derogatory remark on the intention of the original article or the posters and commentators here but .....sigh.

Just goes to show that the Attorney General either isn't too bright or even if he meant well, simply couldn't say it..

I really wish people would get a grip on reality and start to look past the politically orientated bigotry and Neolithic clannish excuses for looking down on their neighbours.

THERE IS ONLY ONE RACE!

The human race.

RACE = SPECIES.

The idea of race as a divisor concept with humans is purely without biological foundation and originates only within a political sphere.

It's a self perpetuating lie (because people are egocentrically 'family' orientated) and an excuse to treat other people badly...

Sorry, I'm having a bad day but the representative mindset doesn't help. I was beginning to hope this kind of thing had been washed away.

Absence.

reply to post by Absence of Self


Whilst I agree with you in theory, in practise man is a very, very tribal creature, not to mention for most of our history the people we needed to fear most were not the ones across the mountains far away, but out neighbors across the valley.

That much genetic indoctination is tough to shed. To this day we identify with groups where we are comfortable. Man U. fans, American, Scots, etc... Honestly, whilst it's a great idea in theory, to do away with group associations, in practise I doubt it'll ever happen. All we can really do is try, through education, to steer it in a rather less harmful direction.

in a way i understand why he made the observation.
there are still racist organizations on both sides, websites devoted to racism, and some americans still don't believe that interracial dating/marriage is acceptable.
there are still many parts of america that are unwilling to live near minorities.
and some minorities don't want to associate with whites.
hopefully the next generations will phase this behaviour out.

i don't know if anyone has heard of the efforts in some schools to change things by having students voluntarily interact with the opposite race during the lunch period.

i believe the way to start is with our young people.
i also believe you cannot change someone who refuses to change.
i've said it before and i'll say it again: children learn hate. watch children at the playground. they'll play together if you let them be and not push your prejudices onto them.

as far as discussing racism, i believe some are immediately turned off because they believe it is rehashing past history.
some even believe there is no race problem in america.
the popular stance these days seems to be accuse someone of playing the race card.

my own personal experiences have shaped my perceptions of the opposite race to judge someone on their actions rather than the packaging they're wrapped in.
i think america is way overdue on the needed dialogue to confront and deal with racism.
but, that's just me.

Me think he should look to his own skin color first as I have not seen a letting up of the use of the "N" word in rap music.Not to mention the majority of the country voted a black man into the highest office of the land. Affirmative action was racist in it self in my opinion. Not to mention the fact the majority of segregation that I see in my everyday life seem to be Black people self segregating themselves. Even here at my own work almost every day the black people that I work with only go to lunch with each other and will never except the invitation to go to lunch with the white folks.

This guy is the new attorney general...oh...boy

[edit on 2/19/2009 by CaptGizmo]

What is cowardly is people being automatically labeled as racist by many others when they dare to disagree with anything Obama says or does.

[edit on 2/19/2009 by TheAvenger]

Originally posted by kozmo
Oh the rhetoric already flowing from this administration...

Tell ya what Holder, we can have that discussion during "White History month" at an exclusively all white University to discuss how Affirmative Action is helping white males in their 30s and 40s NOT lose jobs to lesser qualified candidates based on the color of their skin! Sound good!?

White History Month? Which one, we have twelve of them. I don't know about you, but growing up my history classes focused almost exclusively on Classical, European, and American history (with the exception of talking about Egypt. Everybody loves the pyramids and King Tut). Asia and Africa were always supporting actors in the predominantly white play of history.

And in the article it clearly states that Holder specified when it comes to race we are cowards, not cowards overall. A brief glance at the history of civil rights and the current state of our segregated neighborhoods shows how right that is.

I don't know what state you guys live in but here in Texas I can drive down a street and tell you exactly what ethnic group lives there.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Avenginggecko]

reply to post by heather65


That's the whole foolish suicidal idiocy of it all and the terminology and perspective of that terminology simply reinforces a divide that doesn't actually exist...

It's like people want there to be a physical divide. (not simply a political or ideological idea but an actual permanent physiological division between 'us and the guy born in the next field')

Whites should only breed with whites, blacks with blacks, greens with greens, Christians with Christians, Cthulhu worshipers with Cthulhu worshipers, whatever..

Every colour a species

Every mentality divided by biological and genetic inheritance.

That cycle can last forever and the sickest thing is that now it might actually eventually happen via an artificially enforced cultural perspective and its corresponding 'competition based' economic attitude.

An attitude made ever more possible by the continuance of this ridiculous 'race' concept.

There is no race.

No other race.

No opposite race.

No different race.

No opposing race.

There are simply people.... (just like you)

People from different places, people with different ideas, people with different families, people from somewhere with better weather, it doesn't matter.

So much for the advancement of 'Humanity' when all we ever do it create cracks in it with an ideological chisel, only intent on making 'this' splinter unique...

Books and covers.

Absence..

(P.s. It may be entertaining to know that I'm a white Northern Irish 'Catholic', Bigotry from my upbringing..., well...)

reply to post by Absence of Self


exactly.
when we move past the covers each of us have, we find that we're ultimately not so different.
we all want the same aspirations for our children, decent housing without paying an arm and a leg, the right to earn a decent living, and to be treated with dignity.
it doesn't get much simpler than that.
we need to talk about our mistakes to correct them.
it only makes it harder when people refuse to see that and to put it plainly, refuse to get over themselves.
no one is better than me nor worse than me based on their shade.
i don't want to be treated special, only fairly.
i also don't want fair play at expense of someone else.
we all need to talk to each other and not down to each other if this dialogue is to work.

laurence fishburne said something today in regards to this topic.
he said that racism is the "family disease" of the country and we are afraid to talk about because of the shame associated with it, on both sides, either being descended from slave owners or from slaves.

i get what he's saying in a sense.
it could be the sense of closure some people have found they've needed when they were dealing with something in their lives.
not talking about something isn't a solution. it's denial.
i know some people will say why bring up the past that is unpleasant?
i say, because it will be necessary before moving forward.
talking about it sounds a helluva lot better than ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

Maybe Holder is right "Americans are cowards". We let elected officials do whatever they want, the country is broke and they go on spending sprees with money they don't have. If Americans had any guts they would be on the streets saying "NO BLOODY WAY", instead the americans are simply passing more lube to the government.

But taking on the intent of his words more directly - I totally also agree . Americans have been beaten down so far with racist labels that they are too afraid to actually address the issue. You start the exp0loratory discussion and you immediately see the lights go out and within minutes whatever you say will be branded racist. Without you ever making a racist statement. In order to heal the country it is time to stop hammering people for speaking their minds. Ignorance will remain until people are FREE to speak.

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
[White History Month? Which one, we have twelve of them. I don't know about you, but growing up my history classes focused almost exclusively on Classical, European, and American history (with the exception of talking about Egypt. Everybody loves the pyramids and King Tut). Asia and Africa were always supporting actors in the predominantly white play of history.

And in the article it clearly states that Holder specified when it comes to race we are cowards, not cowards overall. A brief glance at the history of civil rights and the current state of our segregated neighborhoods shows how right that is.

I don't know what state you guys live in but here in Texas I can drive down a street and tell you exactly what ethnic group lives there.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Avenginggecko]

WOW! That is so sad! In my world, NE Ohio, segregation exists on socio-economic scales, but not racial. My neighborhood has blacks, whites, indians, asians etc... We socialize when we're at neighborhood events, but seldom beyond that. That is nature. Rarely have I seen the ducks hanging our with geese! We tend to hang with our own - ALL OF US, regardless of race! Forcing the issue is such a BS liberal utopian pipe-dream!

Regarding education - again, very sad. We spent as much time on slavery and African heritage as we did Europe and as much time on the Middle East as Asia and so forth. What seemed odd was that every year, we dedicated an entire month to black history but NEVER did we dedicate one to white history. Hmmmmmmm.

Also, regarding his use of "Cowards"... I know what context he used "Cowards" in. Again, the funny thing is that I've never heard a white person talking about the black man holding him down! I'm not aware of any programs that give white persons an advantage over anyone because of the color of their skin. I've never heard a single white person talk about receiving reparations. Ah yes, regarding "reparations"... lest someone erroneous claim that only black people served as slaves in this country - Asians were indentured on the railroad and so were the Irish. In fact, that is how my Great, great grandfather got here. He was "Purchased" out of an Irish prison and forced to work 10 years on the railroad as a gandy-dancer before he was permitted his freedom. The point is I don't see white people hiding behind race to gain advantage.

The fact that a black man was elected President should pretty much put an end to this incessant whining about race. It is time to do away with anything and everything predicated upon racial pre-tense and return to true equality. The only way to achieve equality is to practice equality. Everytime a black person plays the race card to their advantage, they only hurt themselves and distance themselves from being treated as a true equal. It creates resentment on the part of other races who are NOT racist or bigoted. To that end, there are always going to be ignorant people who judge others on the color of their skin - but there is no way to legislate against that or legislate equality. We must truly practice equality to achieve equality.