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Jury orders rancher to pay $77,804 to illegal aliens

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posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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This situation does have you guys wound up. I came up with a great conspiracy and you totally missed.

Makes me sad.


I think they set him up.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by nixie_nox]




posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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The rancher will no doubt appeal the case before having to pay one penny awarded to those people. His lawyer/s can tie the case up for years while a campaign is begun to bring attention to this kind of injustice and illegals problem.

This is not going to be isolated to just some area at the south border. It will extend through the entire country, and has already been extending into the entire country.

The primary problem is this. You get 100 pregnant illegals bounce across that border, and drop their babies on this side of the fence...that INSTANTLY makes their babies American citizens and that a baby's parents and immediate family subject to automatic special case circumstances and basically gives all of them the key to the floodgates of rights and benefits that are supposed to be for the citizens of the country.

This has been happening for the last 20 years people. It is the reason why most of these illegals can just come over and declare to have rights because their brother, or sister, or other relative was born in the USA dispite the fact not a single one of them ever went through the legalization process.

That is the primary problem in the immigration issue. Eliminate that instant citizenship if born on USA soil law, you eliminate the problem at the root cause.

Then there would be no reason for them thousands of pregnant illegals to be bouncing across the border having their babies in the USA, and the spit out babies like bunny rabbits breed, soon you have 5 kids to one mother who is of another nationality but all 5 of those kids are citizens, and the mother also has special privilage because her kids were born in the USA, even tho concieved in another nation.

Its a delecate issue, but obviously a clear problem that needs to be reviewed and revised. It was fine for this nation's early years when we needed to build up the population and expand the country. But we dont need that now. The laws need to change, once they do, the problem will also be resolved.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 08:43 PM
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[QUOTE]They actually have human rights activists that go out to the desert and refill water supplies so these people can enter! Crazy![/QUOTE]

They don't refill the water supplies to help them enter, they refill them to help the people survive. You also forgot to mention that some individuals shoot at the water supplies so they can drain and maybe someone that needs water won't have anything left to drink. As long as the government is not making you go out there and refill the water supplies you shouldn't be complaining.



[QUOTE]By using fake ID's and by ab-using "our" tax dollars and ab-using the American welfare system - last time I checked an illegal family with 4 children gets a monthly State check in the amount of $620.00, food credit card in the amount of $510.00 and WIC which provides free cheese, formula, milk, juice, eggs and cereal. These people eat better than we do, and I should mention the father Always lives with the family but is not listed as living in the household so they also get to benefit from his under the table non taxed income.[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah, I bet you've been to every household of this kind and seen it for yourself. How can you be sure that every immigrant family gets help from the government and that every one of them cheat the system by listing the father as living somewhere else.

[QUOTE]I say non-taxed because they never pay taxes - but they steal ours through welfare.[/QUOTE]

Pfft please, so you're saying that all immigrants get paid cash? You're telling me Walm-Mart and McDonald's pays them cash instead of a check inw hich they take away State and Federal Taxes?

[QUOTE]
Math:
Times that by the so-called 15 million in our Nation right now and tell me that by getting rid of that problem it wouldn't be a "HUGE" boost to our situation![QUOTE]

So you're assuming that all 15 million of them are illegal therefore "deportable" and that by getting rid of them our problems are gonna go away.

[QUOTE]Jobs:
When illegals come to Arizona, Texas and New Mexico and there are no jobs available what do they turn to: Drug dealing at schools, robbery, murder, assault, rape, breaking and entering, auto theft?[/QUOTE]

So there is no Black, Caucasians, or Asians that drug deal or that commit any crime whatsoever?

[QUOTE]When they do make money, where do they send it - Western Union to Mexico - it doesn't stay in our economy and they don't contribute except for what they really need - food, clothes, essentials.[/QUOTE]

So you mean they dont have any tvs or any kind of entertainment.

[QUOTE]Government ignorance:
They wave the flag of Mexico and demand rights - "In Our Streets!"

That is an act of war. They don't bother to learn English and they disrespect and stare down our woman whenever we enter one of their business establishments.[/QUOTE]

I Do not condone waving the Mexican flag in U.S. soil, but that's only a fraction of people, after all they are trying to get the U.S. to accept them. Are you gonna judge them all based on a group of individuals?

[QUOTE]Fact:
I am just saying it like it is - it isn't racist - it is the truth and those who oppose my views either benefit by their labor being in this country or they are illegals or their parents were.[/QUOTE]

I believe it's racist since you focused solely on illegal or Mexicans, never mentioning Asians who come across the ocean looking for a better life, or many other immigrants from across the world.

I didn't argue against all of your points because I wouldn't have enough room to fit it all, I only discussed the points which I believe where most important.

If you think that by getting rid of all 15 million of "them" it will solve your problems it just shows your ignorance and your hatred to a single minority.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 




Not true. An illegal alien can have 20 born on US soil kids if she wanted to, the children would all be US citizens but the remains an illegal alien. She gets no special entitlements or benefits or a free ride. If she is detained by an immigration officer she can still be deported. I am a Family Immigration Counselor and I see this everyday.

The children are welcome to come and go as they please but mom stays out. In addition she can barred from ever trying to enter the country legally.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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I believe this outcome is illegal under the Constitution, these people were invaders of the United States of America and I also believe that it is every citizens responsability to protect this country from invasion. Please correct me if it is documented in the Constitution that I am wrong!



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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If I was a rancher and I saw this I don't think I would be just pointing the gun in the future. I think I would be doing much more than just pointing my gun at these people. Then I would arrange a nice and tidy self defense scene...

Worthless scum...



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Americans have a right to defend themselves and their property. The illegals should have no rights.


Are you serious? American lives have worth but not foreign lives? Ever heard of human rights? They are not invalid in America. I suppose you think you're Christian too?


Sheesh.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by YourForever

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Americans have a right to defend themselves and their property. The illegals should have no rights.


Are you serious? American lives have worth but not foreign lives? Ever heard of human rights? They are not invalid in America. I suppose you think you're Christian too?


Sheesh.


theres a difference between human rights and laws of the countries.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 10:59 PM
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OK! Wait just a minute and consider what the jury actually did:


Jury Questions

Violation of "Civil Rights" (he detained them for Trespass)? NO

Battery? (assault causing bodily injury)? NO

Assault (threatening harm or offensive contact)? Yes-2
(Rancher kicked at one woman, threatened another
woman, used offensive language) NO-14

Damages: $1,804 for injury to kicked woman
$76,000 punitive damages.


The U. S. Supreme Court has held that punitive damages must be rationally related to actual damages and not in an arbitrary or excessive amount.

Result: Rancher wins 46 out of 48 issues, pays $1,804 plus costs of court.
Punitives likely reduced on appeal to less than $10k.

Moral of the story: You can stop illegal aliens/trespassers, just don't be stupid or mean.

Not really a bad result when you think about it!

jw

[edit on 19-2-2009 by jdub297]

[edit on 19-2-2009 by jdub297]



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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I am so disgusted with people standing up for people's rights that are not citizens. I have heard the arguments about all the nice, hard working people that are trying to get here and I really don't care anymore. Back when I lived in the midwest (chicago) I didn't think immigration was a big deal, until I was relocated by my job to San Diego. I have lived here 3 years now, so far I have been hit once in my car and twice on my motorcycle by illegals each time they were found at fault, each time my insurance paid and nothing happened to them. The police aren't even able to arrest them unless they do something horrible. They just take their fake information down (as I have personally witnessed all 3 times) and let them leave, each time never to be heard from. Now I pay higher insurance. Before anyone sticks up for the illegal problem, I challenge you to live here or in any border area and see what it really is like. I had to move here to really understand what it's like and how much it affects you. Try going to the hospital, you will wait hours in line behind people who are not citizens that are getting FREE healthcare that you and I pay for every day. I can go on and on (as you probably noticed this strikes a nerve with me) but the point stays the same.

I do apologize for the rant, I just took a really deep breath and feel incredibly better



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
OK! Wait just a minute and consider what the jury actually did:


Jury Questions

Violation of "Civil Rights" (he detained them for Trespass)? NO

Battery? (assault causing bodily injury)? NO

Assault (threatening harm or offensive contact)? Yes-2
(Rancher kicked at one woman, threatened another
woman, used offensive language) NO-13

Damages: $1,804 for injury to kicked woman
$76,000 punitive damages.


The U. S. Supreme Court has held that punitive damages must be rationally related to actual damages and not in an arbitrary or excessive amount.

Result: Rancher wins 18 out of 20 issues, pays $1,804 plus costs of court.
Punitives likely reduced on appeal to less than $10k.

Moral of the story: You can stop illegal aliens/trespassers, just don't be stupid or mean.

Not really a bad result when you think about it!

jw



how about this result, rancher is given a few guns and is told to shoot to kill next time? sounds fair to me.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
So, you believe that the person pointing the gun, the person detaining(kidnapping) the women...HE was the one under stress? What?



Yup!!!

How would YOU feel if you had to deal with this sort of illegal activity on YOUR property day after day and watch THOUSANDS of people trespass on YOUR property ILLEGALLY, day after day!!!!

Don't you think that at SOME point you would say that this BS has got to stop!!!!!


The PAST actions of OTHER people, people who were NOT there that day...have ZERO to do with this, can't you see? If not, why not? What is wrong with the cognitive abilities of people who cannot comprehend such a simple thing?


THOUSANDS of ILLEGAL IMMAGRANTS have been using HIS property as an ILLEGAL highway into the US!!!!

What do you mean it has ZERO to do with this incident?

How long would any "AVERAGE" American put up with this sort of ILLEGAL activity going on on their property?????

Where THOUSANDS of people have trespassed on their property and caused damage?

He was defending his property against trespassers and held them until the proper authorities arrived, I see NOTHING wrong with that!!!!!

What was he suppose to do?

Get on the phone and try to call the border patrol and hope they got there in time?


The RANCHER, like all of us, has a duty to act responsibly. The PAST he experiencd has NO bearing on how he isupposed to act. Fact.


How can you say his "PAST he experience has NO bearing on how he supposed to act"?

Of course it does!!!

People have been invading his property by the THOUSANDS, how can YOU say it has NO "bearings" on the way he reacted to these trespassers!!!!

People entering the US ILLEGALLY have damaged his property, broke into his home, and killed his cattle, how would ANYBODY feel if this sort of thing happened on THEIR property!!!


Now, the RANCHER pointed an assault rifle at WOMEN and held them against their will. In many circumstances that could be called armed kidnapping and much more, calling for a long prison term..He is LUCKY that the local cops are his pals and hate Mexicans as much as he does, or the lawyers would not have had to seek justice in the courts in a lawsuit.


What happened to HIS rights?????

What right did they even have being on HIS property, trespassing, crossing a border illegally?

Why wasn't HE protected from this onslaught of illegal immigrants trespassing on HIS property, breaking into HIS home, damaging HIS property, KILLING HIS cattle?


The RANCHER is a coward and bully.


WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!

I believe he is a true blooded American sticking up for his rights to protect his own property!


Trespassing is a MINOR deal...petty. It is NEVER justified to grab guns and detain people without legal basis for merely crossing some invisible line in the sand.


Maybe under NORMAL circumstances, but this is FAR from a normal trespassing incident!!!

This isn't just somebody cutting through your yard to get to the next street!

(Oh, and remember, by the THOUSANDS!!!)


This rancher is no better than any other violent thug....grab a gun and hassl women..sounds like a great guy...


HMMMM!

I beg to differ with you hear too!

Dictionary.com - THUG


thug
   /θʌg/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [thuhg] Show IPA Pronunciation ,
–noun
1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.
******SKIP******


To call somebody a "THUG" for defending their own property is ridiculous!

[edit on 2/19/2009 by Keyhole]



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by JDSalinger
reply to post by RFBurns
 




Not true. An illegal alien can have 20 born on US soil kids if she wanted to, the children would all be US citizens but the remains an illegal alien. She gets no special entitlements or benefits or a free ride. If she is detained by an immigration officer she can still be deported. I am a Family Immigration Counselor and I see this everyday.

The children are welcome to come and go as they please but mom stays out. In addition she can barred from ever trying to enter the country legally.



Maybe you could go to the southwestern states and ask all the regular citizens about that. They seem to always be 2nd when it comes to the illegals and their offspring.

I know I used to live in Texas where the illegals are now the majority. One of the reasons why I left there. Too much freebies being handed out to the illegals.

One example of that was a friend who has 3 kids went to the local Lone Star Card office (food stamp) and needed emergency food. Guess what happend. she didnt get anything, yet the illegal she sat next to who went in frist even tho she was there before that person was, walked out with a Lone Star Card and drove off in a fancy spinner wheeled pickup with huge low profile tires and dark tint with the name on the back window.

Its worse than most people think. And the reason why it is so bad is because those illegals know exactly how to work the system to their favor, and if the system was indeed as you say, not geared up for them, there would be no reason for them comming over to have their babies on US soil.

Just a few years ago good ol Bush Jr. wanted to give over 30 million illegals instant citizenship...rememeber that? And you think the system is not catering to them now?

Like I said, it is worse than what most want to realize, or even know about. And it is the real citizens who are not just loosing out on those rightful benefits, but also paying for it too through taxes.

Its not a good deal when your own government puts the American citizen 2nd to illegals. I hate having to push #2 for english when I call a business down there along the southwest states.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:20 AM
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Interesting reading the comments from this thread and comparing it to the reactions from ultra-conservative personalities like Bill O'Reilly. Even O'Reilly admitted that the rancher went too far, yet a lot of the comments in this thread were in the tone of "poor rancher he did nothing wrong".

Are illegal immigrants not humans? Those of you that say that the rancher did nothing wrong, do you think it's okay to kill prostitutes?



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by northof8
If I was a rancher and I saw this I don't think I would be just pointing the gun in the future. I think I would be doing much more than just pointing my gun at these people. Then I would arrange a nice and tidy self defense scene...

Worthless scum...


Wow....

No wonders the world is going to hell in a hand basket. Turn the other cheek? Yea.. right. Empathy is non-existent. You have never met any of those involved, and they are worthless scum.

Although, I have the feeling you are talking about any immigrants coming into our country. So sad...



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Leto


Are illegal immigrants not humans? Those of you that say that the rancher did nothing wrong, do you think it's okay to kill prostitutes?

Can I hear your justification for linking the Detaining of Illegal immigrants for the Border Patrol to the murder of prostitutes? Just for my own personal edification?



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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i would like to make a few points that i did not see being made, and also i would like to inform our buddies to the north of a few things.

in the USA, we have the DUTY to apprehend any CRIMINALS, especially when we have witnessed them committing a crime, and even if they are wanted for a crime and we did not physically see it. It is our DUTY.

As for Vigilante, yeah, he was doing some Vigilante work. And that's not a bad thing. When the John Q. Law isn't doing his part in upholding the law, well, someone has to do it. Shoot, vigilante is just another word for cop. Just cause there is no badge don't mean it's not upholding the Law.

What would YOU do? Say Americans were running the Northern Border, and you happened to live right there on the border. Americans crossing YOUR land which you PAY for and break YOUR back to make a living off of. Americans dumping trash and filth on YOUR land. Americans STEALING your personal, payed for property. And you call the authorities the first time, the second time, the third time. They show up twice, not three times, arrest both times, eventually just sending those arrested back to USA, and those same Americans who were crossing YOUR property were back and doing it again, less than 3 weeks later. Would you still have faith in the Authorities?
Would you keep calling them and waiting, or take matters into your own hand?

These illegals are called that for a reason, cause they are illegal. and i don't condone physically harming them, but other than the basic human rights, to be treated humanely, they have NO US citizens rights.

give me one reason why this man should not have done what he did. go ahead, give me a reason. and i'll give you ten times that why he should have.

Love and Peace



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by Leto


Are illegal immigrants not humans? Those of you that say that the rancher did nothing wrong, do you think it's okay to kill prostitutes?

Can I hear your justification for linking the Detaining of Illegal immigrants for the Border Patrol to the murder of prostitutes? Just for my own personal edification?


Just because someone's doing something illegal doesn't give you the right to do something illegal to them.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by Leto
 


It's not illegal to hold a criminal until the Authorities arrive. He crossed the line if he really did assault anyone, but I'd like to hear all the circumstances until I pass judgment on whether or not it was assault.




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