A Swiss Bank Is Set to Open Its Secret Files

Heres more from wikileaks. Tax Gap: Isles of plenty

Caribbean paradise ... operated in secret. A top Swiss banker turned whistleblower says he has the evidence

A hoard of banking files from the Caymans – one of the most secretive British tax havens – are being supplied to the US authorities by a whistleblower who claims they detail worldwide tax avoidance.

The Cayman Islands – Caribbean territories under ultimate UK control – are currently the target of reformers. Alastair Darling was yesterday challenged in the Commons over allegations that UK banks have been using the Caymans for massive tax avoidance schemes. Barack Obama, before he reached the White House, was one of the senators who singled out the islands as a blot on the US fiscal landscape which ought to be investigated.

The whistleblower's documents have been seen by the Guardian. They record the names and transactions of hundreds of companies, trusts, funds and wealthy individuals - information protected by local and Swiss secrecy laws.

Some of the paperwork concerns legal tax avoidance structures. Other files are alleged to point to potential illegal tax evasion by individuals around the globe.

The thousands of pages come from Rudolf Elmer, chief operating officer for the Julius Baer Swiss bank office in Grand Cayman until he was sacked in December 2002. Elmer, 53, and the bank have been involved in a long dispute. The bank accused him of forging documents and making violent threats. Elmer has accused the bank of hiring private investigators to harass him.

Elmer says his documents include all the back-up data held on Julius Baer's computer server in the Caymans at the time he was sacked, including accounts, correspondence, memos and resolutions dealing with 114 trusts, 80 companies, 60 funds and 1,330 individuals.

The bank says Elmer inappropriately obtained some documents as part of "a misguided campaign" against them. They reject his allegations as baseless and say their activities complied with all applicable laws and regulations.

In September 2005 the Swiss authorities held Elmer in custody for 30 days. They have indicated that they intend to charge him with breaking Swiss bank secrecy laws and with sending threatening messages to two Julius Baer officials.

Last year Elmer posted some documents on the Wikileaks website, which specialises in material from whistleblowers. Julius Baer got the site closed down for alleged breach of confidence, but Wikileaks had the California court order overturned on appeal.

The legal action drew the attention of the US Internal Revenue Service, who contacted Elmer. He is co-operating with the IRS, and with financial specialists in the office of Robert Morgenthau, the district attorney of New York; and with the powerful sub-committee on investigations chaired by Senator Carl Levin, which has a track record of probing offshore havens.

reply to post by JBA2848


You know i don't often buy into this NWO stuff but i allow myself a paranoid thought every now and then. Is it possible there is a power struggle in the NWO group and this is their way of centralizing power? I have often wondered about the bilderberg group (not a conspiracy, a factual group) and think that if someone wants power they would use other powerful people to gain ultimate control.

A good way of doing this would be to threaten the assets of others.

Its ok to be paranoid now ... there will be a revolution once the American Public
understands that the privacy law no longer applies to their bank accounts.

Most Americans will take this as another signal to withdraw all funds.

Over coffee with afternoon with a friend we discussed this topic, its nothing more than old bully mafia tactics to get the money back into the USA.

Remember the only way to bring justice to stop a few of the old bootleggers/bank robbers was to charge em with not paying their taxes.

Originally posted by obsolete
I personally think it's BS. The tax system here is unlawful and I applaud those who stow money away in Swiss banks to evade taxes.

I agree in that the tax system here is BS. The Fed is BS. The IRS is BS.
And I have thought of many times that I should evade taxes as I have personal friends who have been doing so for years. If I get caught I can be made an example regardless of my tax code knowledge. Even though there is no law that makes the IRS legal, evading taxes also hurts our economy. Ultimately I think we should handle the tax problems by getting rid of the IRS as it is nothing more than an illegal operation.
There are other ways IMHO to handle this problem.....


We are entering interesting times with the states trying to claim sovereignty and the long sealed information seems to slowly be being disclosed with many things such as UFO's. Many things are happening and their impact leading to further actions are speeding up. Either we will be enlightened or we will have civil war........

[edit on 19-2-2009 by N3krostatic]

reply to post by Diplomat


Tax evasion is tax evasion. Ten to 20 million hidden away is going to cost them taxes, interest and penalties.

American citizens are supposed to pay tax for all their income worldwide. It is lawful to have a Swiss bank account as long as you declare it to the IRS.

Originally posted by Nichiren
American citizens are supposed to pay tax for all their income worldwide. It is lawful to have a Swiss bank account as long as you declare it to the IRS.

I'm not an American citizen but i have read your laws. I have yet to find one that says you have to pay income tax. Regardless of that fact paying income tax does help your country as a whole. The point made in this thread i think is that the swiz are suddenly reversing their long held position of privacy and that in itself is very odd.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Nichiren
American citizens are supposed to pay tax for all their income worldwide. It is lawful to have a Swiss bank account as long as you declare it to the IRS.

I'm not an American citizen but i have read your laws. I have yet to find one that says you have to pay income tax. Regardless of that fact paying income tax does help your country as a whole. The point made in this thread i think is that the swiz are suddenly reversing their long held position of privacy and that in itself is very odd.

Did you notice "supposed to" ?

No, it's not odd. It's all about money. Either UBS name names or the indictment would have forced the entire bank to withdraw from the US market. They chose the lesser evil in the short term. Long term it will change everything re Swiss banking.

The tax system here is total bull..and i find it hillarious and funny lol that the IRS thinks yuo owe them everthing! Really, it made me rethink whow as crazier, schizos or them...
Let us not forget the boston tea party, and king george. The CITIZENS, american people, AMERICANS, rfused to pay a tax on that commidty. If i remember, king george would have taxed everything, just about. Hence forth, the people fought back and revolted, and prevailed, for a little. Seems like old times agian, dosn't it

The old way is collapsing.
I have held the opinion for a while that Switzerland is where all of this started. The whole Knights Templar thing...
Anyhow, watch what happens next! People are going to lose EVERYTHING in their 401k's as these fund managers go under for tax avoidance...
More of the systematic collapse of the old regime.
Time to bring in the NWO.
It is knocking on the door, folks. Realize this. The Swiss banking system is HUNDREDS of years old. Unchanged until now.

The US is making economic power-grabs across the planet right now. Remember how all of those Asian Countries just performed direct-exchanges for US currency. Watch what happens when this crap-bomb hits and the dollar goes down... Since the Asians had to take a deal that required them making payments on an adjustable interest rate, they are about to lose everything as well.
The only ones left will be the ones that have moved out of the Swiss accounts when they were given the warning.
Someone already listed them.

This is about to EXPLODE!

Originally posted by ziggy1706
Seems like old times agian, dosn't it

History does tend to repeat itself - only the players change.

I still say the Swiss banks giving upp info on accounts would only touch the surface because there has been alot of money shifted to the new swiss style accounts at Dubai. After all Dick Cheney wouldn't have his old buddies at KBR and Haliburton move there for no reason.Halliburton to move headquarters to Dubai

Originally posted by sunny_2008ny
More news out on this. The Swiss banking is facing an uphill battle for keeping its Secrecy of its banking system intact in wake of the UBS scandal

Old habits die hard !

Swiss Bank Secrecy in balance

That article says "disclose the identity of some clients"
Does this mean that someone has a list and they only want the info on "disclose the identity of some clients" and not the full list of account holders? Sounds to me like someone is headhunting

Originally posted by DrumJunkie

Originally posted by sunny_2008ny
More news out on this. The Swiss banking is facing an uphill battle for keeping its Secrecy of its banking system intact in wake of the UBS scandal

Old habits die hard !

Swiss Bank Secrecy in balance

That article says "disclose the identity of some clients"
Does this mean that someone has a list and they only want the info on "disclose the identity of some clients" and not the full list of account holders? Sounds to me like someone is headhunting

You make a good point. I'm not sure why they're targeting only those 300 accounts. There are thousands of US citizens that have a Swiss bank account. I need to do some more research on this.

BTW: The IRS has demanded to see about 50'000 accounts of US citizens in Switzerland, but I don't know why the bank (UBS) has failed to protect the 300?

Originally posted by obsolete
I personally think it's BS. The tax system here is unlawful and I applaud those who stow money away in Swiss banks to evade taxes.

You'd think that was a good position to take but it's not. yes it is unlawful and it sucks but guess what? The poor people and the middle class still pay their taxes, and when the government over spends, whos services get cut? The poor and the middle class! The rich aren't helping the cause, they're helping themselves at the common peoples expense. And do you really think all the taxes that would have been paid would have just poofed into some rich guys pocket? Uh no, at least some of that money helped establish the standard of living us decadent lazy slob americans have gotten used to. Sure, if we the government got all the rich peoples taxes too, they'd spend more on crap they want and the rich people would get richer, but some of that money and wealth would have made its way down to the regular people. Mr. Billionaire buys another yacht? Well regular people built that yacht, designed it, marketed it, advertised it, sold it, maintained it, operated it etc.

Rich people not paying their taxes doesnt hurt them or the government, it HURTS US!

Not tryinf to defend the IRS, the government or rich people here, but thinking evading taxes is cool is just asanine. And dont give me the whole " well if nobody paid their taxes the system would collapse and we could put a better system in" garbage. The only way that's gonna happen is if everybody in the country was so poor they earned nothing to tax. Rich people not paying their taxes makes that closer to reality than the average joes of the US voluntarily stopping their tax payment simultaneously.



[edit on 20-2-2009 by Gigatronix]

reply to post by Gigatronix

Not tryinf to defend the IRS, the government or rich people here, but thinking evading taxes is cool is just asanine. And dont give me the whole " well if nobody paid their taxes the system would collapse and we could put a better system in" garbage

I agree, taxes must be paid. Thats the way the govt finances itself. There would be no roads, military, schools, hospitals if we stopped paying tax.

But more often than not, we middle class people end up paying our taxes honestly, but the rich and powerful evade it at their own will.

I think the UBS scandal is an eye opener for these rich people that they have to contribute to the country's welfare, epecially, when these very people complain about the govt all the time

Originally posted by Nichiren

Originally posted by DrumJunkie

Originally posted by sunny_2008ny
More news out on this. The Swiss banking is facing an uphill battle for keeping its Secrecy of its banking system intact in wake of the UBS scandal

Old habits die hard !

Swiss Bank Secrecy in balance

That article says "disclose the identity of some clients"
Does this mean that someone has a list and they only want the info on "disclose the identity of some clients" and not the full list of account holders? Sounds to me like someone is headhunting

You make a good point. I'm not sure why they're targeting only those 300 accounts. There are thousands of US citizens that have a Swiss bank account. I need to do some more research on this.

BTW: The IRS has demanded to see about 50'000 accounts of US citizens in Switzerland, but I don't know why the bank (UBS) has failed to protect the 300?

Sounds to me like that 300 are the subject of a head hunt for whatever reason. Makes one really want to know just who that 300 are and why they got an IRS target on their back(s)

United States Asks Court to Enforce Summons for UBS Swiss Bank Account Records

WASHINGTON - The government filed a lawsuit today in Miami against Swiss bank UBS AG, the Justice Department announced. The lawsuit asks the court to order the international bank to disclose to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) the identities of the bank’s U.S. customers with secret Swiss accounts. According to the lawsuit, as many as 52,000 U.S. customers hid their UBS accounts from the government in violation of the tax laws.

The government alleges in the lawsuit that of those 52,000 secret accounts, about 20,000 contained securities and about 32,000 contained cash. According to a UBS document filed with the lawsuit, as of the mid-2000s, those secret accounts held about $14.8 billion in assets. Court documents allege that U.S. citizens failed to report and pay U.S. income taxes on income earned in those secret accounts.

According to the lawsuit, Swiss-based bankers actively marketed UBS’s services to wealthy U.S. customers within the United States. UBS documents filed with the lawsuit show that UBS bankers came to the United States to meet with U.S. clients nearly 4,000 times per year, in violation of U.S. law. According to court documents, the government alleges that UBS trained its bankers to avoid detection by U.S. authorities. Court documents further assert that many U.S. contacts occurred through UBS-sponsored sporting and cultural events, designed to appeal to extremely wealthy Americans.

The lawsuit alleges that UBS engaged in cross-border securities transactions in the United States that it knew violated U.S. security laws. The lawsuit also alleges that UBS helped hundreds of U.S. taxpayers set up dummy offshore companies, to make it easier for those taxpayers to avoid their reporting obligations under U.S. tax laws.

"At a time when millions of Americans are losing their jobs, their homes and their health care, it is appalling that more than 50,000 of the wealthiest among us have actively sought to evade their civic and legal duty to pay taxes," said John A. DiCicco, Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department’s Tax Division. "It is time for those who are trying to hide from the IRS to rethink their actions. The Department of Justice is committed to do all that it can to aid the IRS in locating those who would seek to hide behind secret accounts and in holding them accountable under the federal tax laws."

"We are committed to moving forward with the summons enforcement process. This action sends a strong signal to taxpayers hiding their money offshore. The IRS will be aggressive in pursuing people who shirk their obligations under the tax law. These people owe it to their fellow citizens to pay their fair share of taxes," said IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman. "As Commissioner, I am committed to bringing to bear the full arsenal of IRS resources to pursue egregious offshore tax abuse. International tax issues are a top priority, and we will continue to aggressively pursue people hiding assets offshore. For people who are hiding money offshore, this serves as a wake-up call that they need to get right with their government. Taxpayers should talk to a tax professional and come forward under our voluntary disclosure process. Having the IRS find you could mean a much heavier price than coming forward on your own."

reply to post by sunny_2008ny


Contrary to popular belief, the Swiss banks do not allow "secret" bank accounts, like we are lead to believe from movies. Every account, when opened, is given a personal banking representative to monitor the account and investigate any illegal activity. If the money is found to be from illegal means (ex. money laundering, drugs, terrorism, etc) the account is reported to the banking customer's country's authorities.

I tried opening one, but gave up after how much paper work I had to fill out. The thought of having your own personal banker was what sold me, but the thought of having to fill out tons of paperwork is what made me leave.