USA is a "Nation of Cowards" says A.G.Holder

A.G. Eric Holder "On Race in America"

abcnews.go.com...

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot in things racial, we have always been, and we, I believe, continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder said at the Justice Department in Washington, D.C. "Though race-related issues continue to occupy a significant portion of our political discussion, and though there remain many unresolved racial issues in this nation, we, average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about things racial. "This is truly sad. Given all that we as a nation went through during the civil rights struggle, it is hard for me to accept that the result of those efforts was to create an America that is more prosperous, more positively race-conscious, and yet is voluntarily socially segregated."

I offer this thread in the spirit of initiating a discussion amongst my fellow A.T.S.'rs as to the validity/wisdom of the fledgling A.G. presuming to foster a fresh National discourse on "race relations" by making what many could construe as a blazingly divisive statement.

In my personal experience, I have found, more often than not, common ground with most people regardless of race, religion, etc. This is not to say that there is not room for improvement, but is the A.G.'s tone seemingly offered in a conciliatory nature? I for one think NOT!

[edit on 18-2-2009 by Snisha]

Holder seldom broaches the topic of race directly, but in a 1997 National Public Radio interview conducted soon after his appointment as the Justice Department’s second in command, he shared a quote by the late Samuel Proctor, a pastor in Harlem, that he carried in his wallet. “It says that blackness is another issue entirely apart from class in America,” Holder said. “No matter how affluent, educated and mobile a black person becomes, his race defines him more particularly than anything else.”

www.amren.com...

Does he presume to speak for every black person in this country? That could be construed as being a tad "elitist" can it not???

[edit on 18-2-2009 by Snisha]

[edit on 18-2-2009 by Snisha]

Well the way I see it, We never will get passed these problems, and I dont think its the fact that the American people are cowards, i just think its that some people are still living in the past. Many of our grandparents, aunts/uncles still havent accepted the fact that we all just need to 'get along'. Anytime you do something new(like racial equality) there are always going to be people on the other side who oppose it. You cant make these people change their minds, for they dont see life the way some of us do.

Example, look at Obama being in office, how many people were happy he got into office? A lot of people. How many people hated the fact that he was? A lot of people. And it doesnt work just one way, it works both ways. Every race has people amonst their groups who hate anyone who is not like them, its just a fact of life and nothing will ever change that. Its not American people that are cowards, Its the Human Race that are cowards.

I think the guy who wrote or said what he did, is in fact an imbecile that cannot tell the difference. All in all, America is a place where we as a people can at least try to overcome prejudices, regardless or not if it works out, and thats what makes us different from any other nation.

Great post IMHO
I think if people focus on all that has gone wrong and all that should be done then yes its a case of failure not cowardliness.

Having said that I say what have we done right?

Considering the shear numbers and races and religious backgrounds that we have here in the States I think we have done a heck of a job and should be proud. I have friends of many different races and faiths sometimes we butt heads but nothing ever gets so serious that we end up hating or killing each other over.

heres how i see how things are for real. Not from my slanted views or hatreds, but from reality, the way it HAS been for a while.

Crime originaly started when WHITES and EUROPIANS mainly STOLE black people form their native tribal lands. They bringing the nature of that lifestyle here, melded a tribalism into our society over time which devolved into gangsterism, a lack of culture but similar behaviorism for assumed methods of srvival by those on the edge of living free. Basicly the earlier blacks in my opinion were likely tired of being treated like crap, as stoners and drug users are in america today feeling tired of fascistic liars putting people down. So soon these two cultures would become one in the same. Which is partially deliberate on behalf of racist whites trying to be little hittlers and bring the blacks down, as democrats did in the 60s by lying to young black woman about promising aid for those who had 3 or more children. THe rich modern blacks are in a way to me some what sellouts like whites and others of there own race because they withhold both money and knowledge for a cost. I agree totally with native americans for the culture of using drugs, promoting togetherness in hunting and working as a tribe. TOdays world is backwards, racism is a microcosm of a misunderstanding of our identity on earth not as city dwellers but LIFE ITSELF.

A.G. Holder's time as a litigation partner at Covington & Burling LLP coincided with a period that was chronicled by Yolanda Young Esq. in an essay entitled, "Law firm segregation reminiscent of Jim Crow," for The Huffington Post.

The essay describes how Holder showed little interest in the discriminatory practices going on within the firm he was a Partner in !!!

What shining "Tower of Virtue" does the A.G. presume to be speaking from???

Covington's black staff attorneys (like its black partners and associates) hail from top law schools like Harvard, Duke and Georgetown while several white associates and partners attended schools like Catholic, Kentucky and Villanova (all ranked well below 50). Taken as a whole, the black staff attorneys' average law school rank is higher than that of white staff attorneys at the firm.

"The vast majority of Covington's black attorneys do no substantive work, have no control over their case assignments and no opportunity for advancement. This seems to be just the sort of structure the U. S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission warned against in its 2003 "Diversity In Law Firms" report which stated, "In large, national law firms, the most pressing issues have probably shifted from hiring and initial access to problems concerning the terms and conditions of employment, especially promotion to partnership."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

I agree with him "we are cowards" when it comes to race issues.
blacks hang with blacks and whites with whites when in social settings for the large part. (don't give me your anecdotal exceptions)

"can't we all get along" that totally supports the above assertion that we for some reason think that is "good enough" to "get along" friends don't just "get along" do they????

I think he was pointing fingers at both black and white culture. It is damn near the old tired argument "seperate but equal" the hell is that?

equal in the workplace but go home to your burb or hood and hang out with your peeps or bro's?

I suck at relating to this issue because I just can't see how the tint of your skin determines anything. When is a tan too dark? Do blacks really hate albino's??

We are cowards because we can't admit that white people don't like or want to be associated with ignorant inbred trailer trash. Black people don't want to be associated with gang banging, pants hanging from their knees thugs. But Nooooooo! If you say anything about this issue you could be called a racist. I strongly urge for some of you that have never seen Chris Rock's standup routine where he says he hates...(rhymes with chigger) he is no coward.

If you are an arse, I don't care what skin color you have, I will not treat you any better or worse than any other arse. We "cowards" here in the U.S. don't dare out of fear of being labled a racist.

If I see a black man dressed in gang "uniform" while walking down the street, I will cross the street and avoid him. If I see the same black man walking towards me in a three piece suit, I will say hi in passing. You don't get a pass from me because of your color or what the cowards in society says is PC or not. If you look threatening, I avoid. If you are ignorant or stupid you don't get a pass either.

We are cowards when it comes to race relations and the issues. Holder is spot on. Now if you are a racist, first don't post that you are, but think about why you are.....is it because of the color or ghetto culture and fear of that group? Do white gangs make you feel any safer?

Americans are generally NOT cowards. I've had many a debate where people have accused me of anit-Americanism, but for all the things that America may be 'greedy', 'stubborn' , 'gung-ho' but they're not cowards.

Their leaders have been corrupt, their soldiers are very over the top (compared to the relative coolness of the UK army), but i'll certainly stand my ground here and say the Americans are not cowards.

peace

I first I thought he was going to be calling us out over not knocking out the government over blatantly ignoring the will of the people...no such luck. He is just trolling people over old ideas of inequality and outdated prejudices. Not really different than the various reverends...

The reality is that so long as divisions are made along racial lines than there will be those that continue to think along those lines. The lyrics to "You've Got To Be Carefully Taught" from the musical "South Pacific" still ring very true today.

I was born in 1970, both my parents worked so my paternal grandparents babysat. My paternal grandfather was born in 1912 and raised in the mountains of Va near Bristol. My maternal grandfather was born in 1920 and raised in the mountains on TN near Carryville. In some books, that would make me a prime candidate for being an officer in the KKK. Guess what, they could not be more wrong.

Despite their regional upbringing neither were racist nor even outwardly prejudiced. These are men that grew up with Jim Crow laws and direct segregation laws. Although my elder grandfather did use some non-PC words in his vocabulary. But not in a hateful manner, just words that are considered inappropriate.

As a small child I can remember trying to tell him about Halloween decorations in the store. Not being able to get out the words ghosts, I said "Look Papaw, spooks!" He knew what I meant as did the family of black people that was nearby because I was pointing at the decorations. It still embarrassed him and I was given a very stern talking about were good words and bad words...and learned the word ghosts at the same time. This would have happen in 1973 or 1974.

Fast forward to 2005 and it was a heck of a story for the guy that taught me how to drive a semi when we were talking about prejudices and racism. He even had me repeat that story to his mother when we stopped in for a visit. You may have even heard of his uncle, John Carlos We all agreed that hatred is taught.

But karma has a way. It just so happened that Eric's little nephew came over the next day and was scared of me because it was the first time he had been around a white guy that close. So I squatted down to his hight and we had a little talk. I told him that some people in this world are bad and will say and do bad things to you. But so long as you listen to your mom and dad or grandma or your aunts and uncles when they someone is okay, you'll always be safe. And for the rest of the day we played and had fun.

Now Eric and I had all kinds of fun over the month together on the road playing on people's ideas and perceptions. I could tell several stories of crap we pulled. But that isn't the point. The point is so long as people hold on to their divisions there will always be a separation. Fortunately it is a dying breed. In time, a thread like this will not exist.

The road to getting there will only be as long and lonely as people want to make it.

reply to post by Snisha


Cowards because we don't talk about our "racial problems"? ..

Asians don't need to sit down and discuss their Asianness..

Latino's don't need to sit down and discuss their Latinoness

Whites don't need to sit down and discuss their Whiteness..

So why do black constantly need to remind everyone else and themselves that they are Black, and must discuss this fact?

There must be a psychological term for such behaviors...

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Snisha

 

Cowards because we don't talk about our "racial problems"? ..

Asians don't need to sit down and discuss their Asianness..

Latino's don't need to sit down and discuss their Latinoness

Whites don't need to sit down and discuss their Whiteness..

So why do black constantly need to remind everyone else and themselves that they are Black, and must discuss this fact?

There must be a psychological term for such behaviors...

I don't think that's what he's getting at. Everyone knows what nationality they are without being reminded. The irony is that this nation is referred to as the "Great American Melting Pot" and yet we all tend to stick together with people of our own race instead of mixing together, even today. What could it be other than cowardice or outright apathy that keeps us from addressing the issue of why this happens? Why do we instead embrace ignorance and fear cultures dissimilar to our own instead of trying to expand the boundaries of our understanding? Is personal enlightenment something we no longer strive for? Probably not. We're all too busy worrying about who is "Dancing with the Hollywood Losers" this week or who's going to be the next "American Idol/Drug-Sex-Attention Addict".

I didn't mean to say that American's are cowards!
I said we are cowards when it comes to dealing with "real" race relations.
The "can't we all get along" belief is what I'm talking about. We should be saying that about Iran and not fellow American's.

Every black and white person should be made to have a friend of the opposite color. Why not the other races? Ok, throw Mexicans in too.
But everybody else can be the "can't we all get along" if that makes people comfortable. There just is no excuse for black and white American's to have any issue with each other....over their color. We can all treat each other like we do Republican's v. Democrats. But the color thing has to go. We all are born here from people, from here.

My best bud right now is Iranian. I am only reminded of that when this race issue comes up. I just don't understand it like I said...well there it is! I have no business opining on this thread just like I don't when it comes to economical issues. I just sound retarded. Sorry.

In a way, I have to agree. People are so concerned with being PC about everything that they have become too cowardly to say or do anything that may be considered even slightly racist, sexist, etc. Maybe not all Americans, but I'd say the majority.

Could it be that people are sticking to cultural likeness and not defining it as race? .. Albeit the various races have their various cultures, and because of this they may tend to stick together by racial class and then through subracial classes via ethnic divisions?

And while some people cross the boundaries, it almost always has to do with common shared interests..

It's a natural human tendency to stick to people the most like your self.

A draw back of Multiculturalism, not Multiracialism.

Originally posted by mastermind77
heres how i see how things are for real. Not from my slanted views or hatreds, but from reality, the way it HAS been for a while.

Crime originaly started when WHITES and EUROPIANS mainly STOLE black people form their native tribal lands.

It was actually Africans who practiced slavery long before the white man set foot on Africa. It was Africans who rounded up and sold slaves to Europeans.

Good point but we do have to take care not to forget or belittle the actions our forefathers did to the Africans.

Having said that I do get a little tired of hearing some of my black friends talk about slavery this and black injustice that and I also get tired of some of my Jewish freinds talking about the Holocaust.

I'm part Native American you don't see me going around and yelling GET OUT!

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Good point but we do have to take care not to forget or belittle the actions our forefathers did to the Africans.

Having said that I do get a little tired of hearing some of my black friends talk about slavery this and black injustice that and I also get tired of some of my Jewish freinds talking about the Holocaust.

I'm part Native American you don't see me going around and yelling GET OUT!

I just tell my black friend if there were no slavery, she'd probably be dead or dying of AIDS in Africa, rather than be sitting at Starbucks with her $5 latte surfing the internet on her MacBook Air.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I agree with him "we are cowards" when it comes to race issues.
blacks hang with blacks and whites with whites when in social settings for the large part. (don't give me your anecdotal exceptions)

I would not presume to argue the point that there is not a substantial degree of "aggregate consciousness" in regards to most humans. But I can say with no doubt that my personal experience is that most people are looking for the same basic things... and these things are shared among ALL humans regardless of race.

I have been very fortunate in that I have had the opportunity to travel and interact with a wide spectrum of people & cultures from the far flung points of the globe. But from the time I was quite young, I judged people based on their individual merits & actions. Not solely on the basis of race etc...

I am not implying that I don't have a sense of fellowship with those that share the same racial identity as me, but I am absolutely saying that RACE is not the personal uber-identification that I choose to place on a pedestal.

I shall ALWAYS celebrate our COMMON GROUND!

Americans are cowards, for not having the fortitude to hold accountable all of those who's greed and lust for power have destroyed the economy.