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Should government assist laidoff and "outsourced" Americans?

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posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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Considering all of the recent government reaction and spending...

- TARP (BUSH)

- Stimulus (Obama)

Should the Government be providing assistance for laidoff and outsourced American workers?

EXPANDED unemployment insurance
Expanded health insurance
Increased funding for other government programs

as well as the entities that can be modified via legislation

food banks
shelters
HUD type programs
etc...

Is such action - "socialism", dangerous government over reach or just simple common decency and why?




posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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Yes - I figure if it alright to bailout irresponsible corporations, then it is right to help tax paying citizens who have fallen between the cracks as a result.

Corporations are not humans and not necessarily AMERICANS.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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I had to think about what you wrote to give myself a gut check and after doing so I say yes. Yes because these are not men and women who were irresponsible, asking for handouts or government freebies. These are just decent people who are down on their luck. They have helped their government out through taxes and I don't see why government shouldn't help them.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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Sure but you'll end up with a mass of dependant unmotivated people, ultimately expanding welfare and social programs.

I'd personally rather see someone in Washington who had the balls to present a real recovery plan that actually puts people to work in large numbers.

But currently we have leadership that is content with having created OR SAVED 4 million jobs over the next few years. While expanding government, pet projects etc.

The common laid-off workers, unable to find new jobs WANT a job not a hand out. Ultimately as this crisis worsens these people will feed from the hand of the government and lose that motivation. A welfare state that only further destroys this nation is what that will bring.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
I had to think about what you wrote to give myself a gut check and after doing so I say yes. Yes because these are not men and women who were irresponsible, asking for handouts or government freebies. These are just decent people who are down on their luck. They have helped their government out through taxes and I don't see why government shouldn't help them.


Ya me 2...
If not for the very reasons you cited.Thnx



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 



I would tend to agree, with the condition that the assistance be in the form of discretionary, non-entitlement assistance rather than assistance doled out through some government entity.

I think there is a lot the government can do, particularily in the form of training/retraining workers, establishing more trade schools and things like that. I would opt for something akin to a tax holiday for these folks. Let them invest in themselves in the way they choose to invest, rather than take what the government thinks they should have in the form that the government thinks they should have it.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Sure but you'll end up with a mass of dependant unmotivated people, ultimately expanding welfare and social programs.




Please explain this point of view you have got going...

You think people who defaulted on their loans will just become lazy and stop working?

The reason I say this is because I usually meet people who enjoy getting up and having
a purpose each day, even if they hate their job.

I think it is much harder to be dependent than you think... Most people have a sense of pride in my experience. It seems that your perspective expects the worst from people and I am not sure if that is warranted in this situation.

If lazy- unmotivated are such a danger, how did the U.S get out of the great depression?



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Sure but you'll end up with a mass of dependant unmotivated people, ultimately expanding welfare and social programs.


Not. Being one of those that have "slipped through the cracks," on public assistance, and applying to 100-150 jobs a week, for three years now, I can assure you that I am NOT unmotivated, and I have no interest in "expanding welfare and social programs" strictly because I am "unmotivated." I am for expanding these programs because there are many people (like me!) that are doing all they can but their luck is down.

If we can hand hundreds of billions, trillions, even, to slimy businesses, I think we should distribute these funds to the ones who struggle first, before we bail out millionaires.


The common laid-off workers, unable to find new jobs WANT a job not a hand out. Ultimately as this crisis worsens these people will feed from the hand of the government and lose that motivation. A welfare state that only further destroys this nation is what that will bring.


Where do you get the idea that living at the behest of the Feds creates a lack of motivation? The average length of time on assistance I believe is 2 years. When there are no jobs, that will likely extend. But I can assure you that the "unmotivated" ones are a small fraction of those on assistance. The idea of the "unmotivated" is the lie they tell us to not help those who need help.

[edit on 2/18/2009 by Amaterasu]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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one way or another, they will...at least until everything collapses. part of me says yes...they allowed this to happen so they should help.

but another probably bigger part of me says nope...the people of this nation take the ultimate responsibility...they let this happen...they ignored the warning signals and cries of the those people affected early, for over a decade now this has been going on! you know...if it isn't happening to ME it's not a problem. mmm hmmm. well now those who ignored the cries and are finally being affected should feel the pain and deal with on their own too. and that's going to be a whole lot more people now. why go for help to the very people who stabbed you in the gut to begin with? what's the sense in that?

where energies should be focused instead are in getting our country back to self-sufficency. bring back or create manufacturing jobs...buy locally...vote for people who see the VALUE of this...and make a lasting impact.



[edit on 18-2-2009 by ~Lucidity]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by mental modulator
If lazy- unmotivated are such a danger, how did the U.S get out of the great depression?



By putting people to work.

Yes I agree that many people would rather work than depend on government, but how long does it take?

How long will this recession last?

The Obama administration claims that this multi-billion dollar recovery plan will either create or save 4 millions jobs.

The point is if there are NO jobs, people on assistance can become unmotivated.

From a government perspective that could be a positive from with they can build on.

Long term assistance = being subservient to the source of assistance.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


First off, I hope you will find a GREAT JOB shortly.

Second I appreciate that you pointed out your desire to work, be productive and self sufficient.

I am not sure why the idea of becoming lazy and unmotivated is such a strong talking point... I assume the people who hold this point of view feel like they wanted to leech when they were between jobs or something..

[edit on 18-2-2009 by mental modulator]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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Well taking into consideration that our government politicians with their corporate lobbyist pimps are the one that worked, wrote, pushed and screw the nation with their policies on NAFTA and the WTO I say they own the American hard working tax payer to have something back.

If not I would love to see every American that has been lay off due to outsourcing, insourcing and layoff suing the government for been responsible of the downfall of the US economy.

It was after all under their watch that our nation went from a nation of producers to a nation of consumers and spenders on debt, loans and credit.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Walkswithfish

Originally posted by mental modulator
If lazy- unmotivated are such a danger, how did the U.S get out of the great depression?



By putting people to work.

Yes I agree that many people would rather work than depend on government, but how long does it take?

How long will this recession last?

The Obama administration claims that this multi-billion dollar recovery plan will either create or save 4 millions jobs.

The point is if there are NO jobs, people on assistance can become unmotivated.

From a government perspective that could be a positive from with they can build on.

Long term assistance = being subservient to the source of assistance.


OK... fair enough point -

I guess we will see about the jobs soon enough.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


I work in Adult education and just in the last two weeks we have had an influx of people here who have lost their jobs and are here to improve their skills so they can be retrained in a variety of areas. I have met two who lost their jobs because they missed a day of work. They had worked for their companies for more than 25 years. I expect more people to lose their jobs for lame reasons just because there are many more available to take their place.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by jam321]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by dolphinfan
 


I expect more people to lose their jobs for lame reasons just because there are many more available to take their place.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by jam321]


YES

And then companies can hire cheaper workers and cut costs.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Well taking into consideration that our government politicians with their corporate lobbyist pimps are the one that worked, wrote, pushed and screw the nation with their policies on NAFTA and the WTO I say they own the American hard working tax payer to have something back.

If not I would love to see every American that has been lay off due to outsourcing, insourcing and layoff suing the government for been responsible of the downfall of the US economy.

It was after all under their watch that our nation went from a nation of producers to a nation of consumers and spenders on debt, loans and credit.


Well Sergeant MARG

I agree... we fund this whole burrito and we should protect our people - as we hope they would want to protect us.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


That is call disintegration of the middle class to become a Dependant class with only one division, the very wealthy and the very poor.

America already has lost its status as a wealthy industrial producer the base, bread and butter of supporting the middle class.

We are reversing to pre industrial status where people will be more dependent on government assistance to survive or been forced to take lower income jobs.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by mental modulator
reply to post by Amaterasu
 


First off, I hope you will find a GREAT JOB shortly.


Thanks! Me too! [smile]


Second I appreciate that you pointed out your desire to work, be productive and self sufficient.


Thanks. So many think I have not been out there looking. But little do they know how much effort I have been putting into finding another job.


I am not sure why the idea of becoming lazy and unmotivated is such a strong talking point... I assume the people who hold this point of view feel like they wanted to leech when they were between jobs or something..


Or they are looking for reasons to do the Lizard hearted thing - ignore us and maybe we'll go away...?

It is only those that want it to appear that all these people, down on their luck, are there because we choose to be. They want to suggest that we are "lazy," "unmotivated," and other epithets, so as to justify doing nothing. By marginalizing us, they can garner support for leaving us with nowhere to turn to.

It is a purposefully concocted BS to sway the understandings and opinions of the "average Joe." God forbid we try and HELP someone!



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by mental modulator
 


That is call disintegration of the middle class to become a Dependant class with only one division, the very wealthy and the very poor.

America already has lost its status as a wealthy industrial producer the base, bread and butter of supporting the middle class.

We are reversing to pre industrial status where people will be more dependent on government assistance to survive or been forced to take lower income jobs.




I agree - this is how you kill a democracy and create a third world nation...

Look at central AMERICA



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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Mental Modulator, you forgot something, America is not a democracy that is how the federal government blinded the people so they could made them forget that we are a Republic.

And we all bought it, to the point that the states of the union can not longer survive on their own without big brother.



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