fire or shelter?

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
I am really amzed that so many here do not know how to build a shelter that will warm a person without the aid of fire. It seems that this would be the primary reasons for it.

A shelter provides no warming. The energy required to warm the shelter, without a fire comes from the body of the sheltered person. I amazed why you don't know this basic phsyics principle. A shelter does not create energy. The creation of the shelter requires energy, after that the shelter only reflects energy of the person sheltering within it.

A fire however provides more energy than that required to create it.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


You are of course right. But building the shelter of course expends energy but will keep you warm in its' own respect. After the shelter is built, if built properly, will reflect your body heat back onto you. I well built debris hut for example, will keep you warm and dry. Crawling into a hay bay will actually warm you up, as the decomposing process of the hay actually puts out heat. A good snow shelter in below freezing temps will warm up to freezing. So yes in many ways a well constructed shelter will warm you.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

the general rule of thumb is without food you'll die in 4 days without water you'll die in 3 without fire you'll die in 2 without shelter your dead that night. Thats not to say there arent extenuating circumstances ... like say if your lazy as hell before it rains procuring food and water and fire supplies , if you get shelter before it rains your fine.... screw up and do everything first except shelter your dead

As I understand it, you can live many weeks without food or with minimal food, but only 2-3 days maximum without water. Depending on weather conditions, low temps can take only hours to kill you. So I would say that it is totally dependent on the situation one would find one's-self in. Priorities would adjust to fit the situation, as best as could be done.

In freezing temperatures, since that would be the most immediate threat, I would probably seek to throw together the most effective makeshift shelter I could. With fire vs shelter, the thing is that sometimes one wouldn't have time or ability to wander about collecting firewood (dark, blizzard etc) and even if some were collected, more and more wood would be needed throughout the time to keep the fire fueled. A small conservative fire just won't do it when one needs great warmth quickly. Probably the best thing to do, would be to pull together some sort of shelter, collect quickly, leaves, brush, debris, pile it up, and burrow underneath it - this way, the body's own warmth that it radiates, can keep it warm. I would think if one's clothes are wet, remove them, and burrow naked underneath the collected brush. Later, when the worst of the situation is over, temps rise somewhat, then fire can be seen to, clothes dried etc, and water attained.

Shelter I think, then water, fire, food would be last for me. When needed, the body will break down its fat reserves to keep you in energy, but it can't do this with water, water must come from an external source, and nothing will weaken you like the lack of it in your system.

After shelter and water is attained and immediate danger is not a threat, further assessment can be done (how the hell do I get out of here)

Just my opinion

I say Shelter... if properly made you wont need a fire to keep warm... in some cases a fire will only give away your position to an enemy... that's makes shelter top priority...
See this site for a how too.

The only thing I'd add to their method is I line the trench bottom too.... moisture seeps up through the grown and staying dry helps keep your body heat

The age old conundrum. Based on some of my experiences I can say that there is nothing more demoralizing than being soaking wet and cold while trying to start or maintain a fire in a down pour without shelter. Under perfect weather conditions fire is great but if I can keep dry under shelter I can most likely stay warm by being less exposed to wind and rain or snow.

Gimme Shelter!! I can forage for edible plants and eat raw fresh fish.

I agree with most others, there's no single answer to this question.

That being said though, I can't think of a single situation where ignoring building yourself shelter, and building a fire instead, would put you worse off.

Protecting yourself from the elements should be paramount in any situation. If the weather is mild, and the fire makes you feel better, build a fire. If it's stormy, snowing, ditch the fire and get some shelter.

Keep in mind you may not have to build your shelter. Caves can work, or underneath an outcropping of rocks. These can keep you out of the rain & wind and still allow you to build a fire.

Other places can provide shelter too, although may not accomodate a fire, such as underneath the boughs of a tree, or fallen logs/driftwood.

If there's no natural shelter available you have to build one, and that takes time & energy. If you're on the move it may not make sense to build shelter for just one night.

Most important thing to remember is the weather and your environment. Pay close attention to the sky, wind direction before it gets dark so you can guage whether or not it may rain that night. If there's any indication of storms on the way you need shelter first!