fire or shelter?

Which is more important in a survival situation, fire or shelter? All things being equal. Environments limited to the lower fortyeight of the conus. Let's get your take on this before I offer up my position and why. All of those out there that are willing to express an opinion and willing to learn are welcome.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Fire by far is more important. Having a shelter will not neccesarily keep you warm in cold weather. With a fire it doesn't matter how wet you get as long as you stay close and stay warm.

reply to post by Anuubis


water. can't live
long without it.......
water
water.......fresh water.

yes it is more important to have fire, it keeps ya warm and it also scares off predators,so it'll keep ya warm too

It's entirely dependent on your specific situation.

If it's 30 degrees out, and you're soaking wet, you need fire.

If it's 70 degrees out with thunderstorms approaching, you need shelter.

Originally posted by Locke23
it also scares off predators

Only of the non-human kind..

I'd be more wary of the two-legged and potentially lethally armed kind of predator...If you have to build a fire in the open, build either a 'Yukon' type mud/clay chimneyed fireplace..




..or 55Gal drum 'Hobo' stove..



Illuminating your body at night by an open flame fire is an open invite for target-practice by anyone with a rifle/xbow who wants your supplies

Building a shelter is the best thing you can do to start. You have to get yourself out of the harsh elements of nature. If you have a fire and for some reason the winds pick up or the rain starts putting it out then what? My opinion is to build a shelter first and a fire second. You build a good enough shelter your body will keep you warm. You build no shelter then you've just added natures fury to your life.

If you build the Yukon-style fire you have potentially solved both problems.

Fire in the open is no use if it's blowing a gale or tipping it down. Also you may as well hang a big "I am here" arrow above your position.

As mentioned it depends on the requirements dictated by the circumstances although I will side with shelter until convinced otherwise.

Well we are getting some differences of opinion here aren't we? I can certainly see who has and has not spent considerable time in the wilderness. People need to understand this is more than just a philosophical question. It may one day be a matter of life or death and you had better get it right.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

I vote for shelter. Being exposed to the elements is not a good thing in a survival situation. Once you have the shelter constructed, then work on the fire, it'll be much easier to accomplish. Shelter is only secondary to immediate medical care.

reply to post by Solarskye
I strongly disagree with your opinion. I do agree it depends on the situation, but if it's cold outside you need heat fast. Building a shelter doesn't work the body enough to generate very much heat. And no matter how well built or designed your shelter is it won't keep you warm if your body temperature is too low. If you are freezing, you need fire. Once you warm up then build your shelter

A a survivalist, both are necissary for their own uniqe reasons. But I have to agree that fire (or the ability to make it) would have to reigh dominant. Perhaps that is where this is going astray.

I'm not saying that there needs to be a fire roaring all the time, but you must have the ability to at least produce fire as needed.

Shelter is also needed, but for more of a permanant reason, anchoring yourself down to an area and tucking in (even if for a short period of time).

The only way I would put shelter first is if I was on the polor ice caps or anywhere else that wind, rain or other occurances might not allow fire to take and keep burning for a lenth of time.

reply to post by Solarskye


In a perfect world you are right. Shelter first. However, if Im outside at -30F, there could be 2x4s and a hammer and nails, yet Im thinking fire is my best bet.

Lets be honest about this. In a true survival situation, you are not going to have ideal conditions, you are not going to have ideal gear and there is a good chance you are going to have people around that are scared and confused.

Fire solves many more problems than a shelter does. Provides warmth, warm food, can work to create items used for a shelter, and more importantly, fire can instill a sense of calm and peace to those who are terrified. Ever notice how much happier people are sitting around a fire than just sitting around?

A shelter only does that. Gets you out of the elements. You are still cold, scared, and likely wet (no fire to dry you off). Yes, shelter is important, but I will build my fire first, even if it is 60 and sunny.

reply to post by Anuubis


I guess it comes down to the situation you are in. I'll take both shelter & fire any day but if it's cold and wet and you're unable to build a fire then a shelter will get you out of the elements that will kill you. If you're in the desert I'm sure a shelter would be better in the day but a fire would be nice a night. Anytime your cold and wet a fire would be nice depending on your resources like wood that will burn etc... So you have to adapt to whatever situation nature throws at you.

reply to post by Solarskye
It also depends on the area your in. Where i'm at it can be pouring rain and i can still easily get a fire going. It all depends on your fuel source like you said. Here we have a lot of pine tree's, hence a lot of pine needles that will burn even when wet. People just need to learn about their environments. But if it's cold i want fire first.

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
Well we are getting some differences of opinion here aren't we? I can certainly see who has and has not spent considerable time in the wilderness.

I think what you're talking about is the differences between bug-ins (urban survival) and bug-outs (wilderness survival)

Both scenarios require a different set of skills and modes of thinking.

Shelter is easier to come by in the urban environment, but fire-light/smoke will be a major issue to disguise/dilute to avoid detection by marauders

The wilds may be more sparse in terms of population, but sturdy shelters will be harder to build from raw earth/turf/logs

I'm a smoker on my way to quiting but I've asked this question several times before with the same answer. I asked " do you have a light ?" and the answer I get is I don't smoke. I hope that if any of you don't smoke please carry a lighter with you at all times. When I quit I will still carry a lighter. Of course if you're out hiking camping get a survival kit and flint.


How did we ever survive without fire back in the day? Maybe shelter

A fire is definitely nice to have, but it's not the only means to warm yourself up. Doing a few calisthenics will get the blood flowing to your limbs and help raise your core body temperature. There's are also times when you just can't light a fire i.e.. heavy rain, strong winds, wet ground, etc..

reply to post by Solarskye
My gear for hunting, camping, fishing, and my bug out gear all have a handful of disposable lighters and a couple of magnesium blocks. I smoke too

So the question reluctantpawn asked is a circumstantial question. But if you weigh out the differences then fire is a good tool to have if you enjoy hot food. If a fire is impossible then a shelter, but if you can build a fire I'd assume you could build a shelter right? Just be sure to put the fire completely out when done. That Australian Bush fire was horrible even if it was deliberately set.

So fire is the best thing on your side when it's possible to make one.
Shelter helps especially if you have high winds. Then you build a shelter that can have a fire inside.

[edit on 2/18/2009 by Solarskye]