US troop buildup in Afghanistan could be a defining moment

Well if you think about the economic situation.
The only thing that will prolong there defunct economic system, and allow them to steal more, is more wars.
So expanding Afghanistan and Iraq, is highly likely.
Then everyone will call Obama a liar, sure.
But the next election he will just steal.

Ok here we go another report

Obama sends 17,000 more troops to Afghanistan

But unless it is combined with important changes in U.S. strategy and tactics -- most crucially, a scaling back of U.S. objectives, a renewed focus on building Afghan government capabilities and an effort to address insurgent safe havens in Pakistan -- success in Afghanistan is likely to remain elusive.

An 8,000-strong Marine Expeditionary Brigade will be deployed from Camp Lejeune, N.C., in late spring, and a 4,000-strong Army Stryker Brigade will follow them in late summer, the Pentagon said in a statement. An additional 5,000 support troops "will receive deployment orders at a later date," the statement added.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

That is and has been the problem of our military for a long time. We never take the gloves off. We are more concerned about reaching the hearts and minds of people and what the world will think of us. With Obama wanting to appease the world so they will like us more, I truly feel that those gloves will be glued on. Unfortunately, those glued on gloves will cost many more American lives than if they were to be taken off. Sooner or later the US is going have to give these terrorist a damn good message on why they shouldn't mess with the USA.

more concerned about reaching the hearts and minds of the people?
ask the Iraqi people about hearts and minds.

The reason the gloves are on is to prolong any war, war is a business, and just like any business, they don't want to go out of buisiness any time soon.

It really does work well for the propoganda saying that they are trying to win the hearts and minds, but the more US casualties the better it is for the war machine as it keeps emotion high.

We hear so little about the innocents killed in the ME because it would outrage so called civilized people, but you do hear about some of the barbaric rituals and laws carried out in the ME, it does make them seem less than human.

Winning hearts and minds would mean pulling out and going home.

So please drop the whole minds and hearts propoganda and just call it what it really is, carefully thought out prolonged business which kills people for a living.

reply to post by munkey66


Well I for one dont care about trying to win the hearts and minds. More like stomping some Taliban. The US should do what it does best and that's kick some rear and then we should go home.

To be honest if the US would come up with some proper evidence that Al Quad or what ever did the 911 thing. NATO members probably would be a lot more eager to send troops. But who in their right mind would send their troops to die because of a political lie or even a cover up.

I would say be happy with what you got. You cant ask for more when you cant deliver any solid evidence. We cant just go to war because Americans are angry. And needs to let out some justification on innocent people.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by munkey66

 

Well I for one dont care about trying to win the hearts and minds. More like stomping some Taliban. The US should do what it does best and that's kick some rear and then we should go home.

Could you please point me in a direction that says the US has kicked serious butt in the last 50 years and then went home.

reply to post by munkey66

So please drop the whole minds and hearts propoganda and just call it what it really is, carefully thought out prolonged business which kills people for a living.

Call it whatever you like. I am not in agreement with winning minds and hearts. i am all out for kicking butt with whatever it takes, in the shortest time period possible, and sending a message to our enemy that we are not to be messed with.

reply to post by jam321


I like how they stop at the 50 year mark
I say hunt them down.

reply to post by SLAYER69

I say hunt them down.

I agree 100%. They should go after every single one that they come across no matter how small or how big. One size fits all. I for one am tired of this back and forth game. It is time to play some major offense.

reply to post by jam321


My grandfather who was an old school Marine said
" The best defence is a blazing offence!"

Originally posted by spy66
To be honest if the US would come up with some proper evidence that Al Quad or what ever did the 911 thing. NATO members probably would be a lot more eager to send troops. But who in their right mind would send their troops to die because of a political lie or even a cover up.

I wondered when somebody would bring this little nugget up. In my opinion the justification of the Afghanistan War is now irrelevant. Some of you might raise your eyebrows at my last statement but it's true.

The fact of the matter is, that War in Afghanistan is real and it's happening. We can debate over and over again in regards to the reasons of the conflict but we cannot allow Afghanistan to fail.

At the end of day, the Taliban cannot be reasoned with. They're backward in every sense. They treat Women like dogs and they repress just about everything. They're a danger to our Western societies.

So really, what CAN we allow to fail? Is there anything out there right now that is "too big to fail" besides the individual busting his ass to make a living? The Constitution? That's not too big to fail. We've been peeing all over it for years.

This nation has shifted into overdrive and we are headed straight into a wall.

You can't defeat Afghanistan. They've been fighting for millenias. Never defeated.

The only way to defeat them would be to kill them all. I'm sure it wouldn't bother most NATO generals...

They are born to fight, they are motivated. Hell, 12 years olds attack tanks with AK47s... hundreds are killed and they still continue.

Get out of there, save lives, afghan lives and nato lives. Afghanistan is not a threat, not at all. They are a third world cesspit with no technology at all.

Before they develop electricity, ICBM, nuclear energy and all that, it will take a lot of time.

And Iran nearly invaded Afghanistan in 2000 because Talibans were causing trouble in Iran. If Bush didn't brand them as a threat, they would have helped NATO in Afghanistan.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by David9176
So really, what CAN we allow to fail? Is there anything out there right now that is "too big to fail" besides the individual busting his ass to make a living? The Constitution? That's not too big to fail. We've been peeing all over it for years.

This nation has shifted into overdrive and we are headed straight into a wall.

Well, do you really want Afghanistan to be left alone to its own devices? A country run by a group whom wants the Western countries destroyed. A country for enemies and terrorists free from prosecution. I'd bet they'd soon have hundreds of training camps up in no time, training young Naive people to blow bombs up in our back gardens. Oh, that's what they used to do before.

Can you imagine how unstable things would get with the Taliban back in control? I doubt Pakistan and Iran would be very happy.

There are many reasons why we just cannot pull out and leave Afghanistan to its own devices. What about the people? What will happen to them once we've gone?


[edit on 18uWednesday09/27/08 by paul76]

Originally posted by munkey66

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by munkey66

 

Could you please point me in a direction that says the US has kicked serious butt in the last 50 years and then went home.

Ever hear of the Gulf War?

Originally posted by stevegmu

Originally posted by munkey66

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by munkey66

 

Could you please point me in a direction that says the US has kicked serious butt in the last 50 years and then went home.

Ever hear of the Gulf War?

Which Gulf war was that?
Was this the same Iraq that had just finnished an 8 year war with Iran?
The one that still left Suddam in power?

generally speaking, if you win a war you don't have to go back again in 10 years to do it again.

The only justification into going after Afghanistan was and still is Opium, this has nothing to do with terrorists, a terrorist is just a very loose fitting label in which you could describe anything as.

The taliban is no threat to any one in the western world and if you want to get to the root of the evil look no further than house of Saud and the brand of Islam they follow "Wahhabis"
They are the ones who build the schools which produce the fanatics all over the ME.
Take out them and you have just cut the body off the snake, without the body the heads will surley die.

reply to post by Vitchilo


I think maybe you're confused with the deference between the Taliban and Afghans. When you try to conquer Afghanistan then yes but the Taliban are mostly made up of foreigners to Afghanistan.

This is not the mujaheddin or Pashtun that fought the Soviets!
Yes some are former members we trained and equipped to fight the Soviets.
Heck the Taliban are now hiding in Pakistan it's getting too hot for them in Afghanistan!




[edit on 18-2-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by jam321
why so eager to kick afghan butts? after driving the world into an economic mess you should

a) watch your american ones
b) face reality (this desert country did not attack the us) and leave afghanistan as fast as possible

just my 2 cents

Originally posted by paul76
Well, do you really want Afghanistan to be left alone to its own devices?

Oh no, we can't allow all that Opiate production to be kept for the Afghanis. The Poppy crops must be protected and black-markets for end-product developed along a truely modern corporate model.

Afghanistan will die down,
Everyones going to cross the border to Pakistan, especially now the Pakistan govt has declared a truce and allwoed Sharia law to come into play in the tribal belt.

No doubt The American Govt will claim success if Afghanistan, without actually admitting to the reality, much like Iraq.

So long as Fox or CNN says we won, majority of Americans are willing to believe it.