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NY cartoon appears to link Obama to dead chimp

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posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


Im not lowering my standards. I just believe that if you are seeing the chimp in that cartoon as Obama, that says more about you than the cartoon.

It clearly is not Obama, because Obama did not write the stimulus bill.

And not everyone believes and knows, or even cares about the whole comparison of black people to apes. There are whole generations of people who grew up in a world where that wasnt done. I sure as hell never heard that kind of comparison growing up. I have learned about it from hysterical responses like this.

And of course discrimination against the Irish doesnt justify slavery. Hell, some Irish were stolen off the streets in Ireland and sold into slavery themselves.

www.yale.edu...


Oliver Cromwell "barbadosed" Irish who refused to clear off their land and allowed other Irish to be kidnaped from the streets of Ireland and transported to Barbados. Those who were barbadosed were sold as slaves or indentured servants, to British planters. They lived in slave conditions and had no control over the number of years they had to serve. The number of Barbadosed Irish in not known and estimates very widely, from a high of 60,000 to a low of 12,000.


Those arguments are not meant to justify slavery. They are meant to point out that not only black Americans have suffered. PEOPLE all over the world have been slaves. The very word "slave" is derived from a very white group of people who were slaved very commonly, Slavs, so commonly in fact that the practice bears their name.

www.etymonline.com...


slave (n.) Look up slave at Dictionary.com
c.1290, "person who is the property of another," from O.Fr. esclave, from M.L. Sclavus "slave" (cf. It. schiavo, Fr. esclave, Sp. esclavo), originally "Slav" (see Slav), so called because of the many Slavs sold into slavery by conquering peoples.

"This sense development arose in the consequence of the wars waged by Otto the Great and his successors against the Slavs, a great number of whom they took captive and sold into slavery." [Klein]


Those arguments are not meant to condone, or justify, but are offered because it is time for people to stop using their history of victimization to dictate their present and future. And to point out that holding on to the role of victim is, in fact, a bit racist itself. It overlooks all the other suffering of all other people in the world in a very self centered and self serving vision of oneself as the greatest sufferers of all.


[edit on 23-2-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]




posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by Mynaeris
When I think of all the pictures implying that Bush was a chimp...


Wait... I thought Bush WAS a chimp! My little cloud of denial is ruined!


[edit on 23-2-2009 by Hurican]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Im not lowering my standards. I just believe that if you are seeing the chimp in that cartoon as Obama, that says more about you than the cartoon.


Oh yes how dare I not find it acceptable that a newly elected president being compared to as a monkey and being shot at. Dang. Where the hell were you regarding the outcry when bush was fairly being compared to a monkey after 8years of his lies?

No no continue to say its acceptable. The intent is obvious, but the GOP hacks here are just doing their daily clean up jobs. God bless america.


It clearly is not Obama, because Obama did not write the stimulus bill.


Oh really you figured that out?! Why dont you go explain that to your other GOP buddies trigger happy over the bill. Please, and come back to me with their answers. I really love that your trying here. As expressed above.


And not everyone believes and knows, or even cares about the whole comparison of black people to apes.


Exactly and thats the damn issue. If there is a cartoon tomorrow portraying a man with the star of david as "big nosed money grabbers" or an individual with stereotypical exaggerated asian features, you know we'll just make the excuse that nobody cares.

We live in a higher society. Racism of this kind should not be accepted. You disagree with the man, thats dandy, no need to lower your standards by letting go racial untone cartoons. Seriously cut the attempt to clean up what was a blatantly obvious attempt. Bring yourself up a level.


There are whole generations of people who grew up in a world where that wasnt done.


Buddy the last I heard back in the 90s racism was still on the run and everybody still knew verywell the comparison between blacks and monkeys. Howmany 11 or 13year olds or what not are on this site? Shouldnt we be setting an example? Cut cover their asses.


I sure as hell never heard that kind of comparison growing up.


Right, and iv never heard 12 million jews being massacred decades ago. Its easy for me to say that and then deny the holocast or better yet say that 12 americans died in the war of iraq so "everybody dies". Its exactly what your doing.

How old are you? If you have not heard of that racially charged comparison your at most 20 or so which in that case maybe you should learn about the lessons in the past.

And of course discrimination against the Irish doesnt justify slavery. Hell, some Irish were stolen off the streets in Ireland and sold into slavery themselves.


Those arguments are not meant to justify slavery. They are meant to point out that not only black Americans have suffered.


Damn straight, and lets acknowledge it. However what those argument do intend to do is act as if "it wasnt a big deal" and thats my issue. I can understand those who oppose affirmative action or compensation to blacks but then certain folks tend to blow it to the point where they start throwing around this "it wasnt a big deal for blacks to be made slaves" bullcrap or "I cant be held responsible for centuries ago". Ofcourse you cant, but it is our duty to acknowledge the lessons of the past, and its unfortunate there are some who have obvious personal issues and they let go too far.


PEOPLE all over the world have been slaves.


Wonderful, shall we do a comparison? I can bet you right now blacks have got it 10 times worst. It is time for to acknowledge and respect the lessons of the past instead of this "they didnt get it so bad" BS. This has nothing really to do with the fact other non-blacks suffered, this as plently to do with lowering how bad the situation was for silly modern partisan issues, and thats BS.

Continue the clean up job, but I wont stand for the lowering of societies standards.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by southern_Guardian]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:40 AM
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This thought just occurred to me: Perhaps it's predicting a fate comparable to what happened to Abe Lincoln. The stimulus bill may not be all that favorable to some people of 'authority' (as personified by the cops).



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by southern_Guardian

Oh yes how dare I not find it acceptable that a newly elected president being compared to as a monkey and being shot at.


He isnt.



Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Oh really you figured that out?! Why dont you go explain that to your other GOP buddies trigger happy over the bill. Please, and come back to me with their answers.


Im not a Republican.


Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Exactly and thats the damn issue. If there is a cartoon tomorrow portraying as "big nosed money grabbers" or asians as "chinks", you know we'll just make the excuse that nobody cares.


I grew up in Hawaii. We didnt pick on blacks and jews. We were relatively oblivious to the whole black and jewish issue. We had our own issues.



Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Buddy the last I heard back in the 90s racism was still on the run and everybody still knew verywell the comparison between blacks and monkeys. Howmany 11 or 13year olds or what not are on this site? Shouldnt we be setting an example?


You are setting an example. You are feeding these 11 and 13 year olds the message that blacks are compared to chimps.




Originally posted by southern_Guardian
How old are you? If you have not heard of that racially charged comparison your at most 20 or so which in that case maybe you should learn about the lessons in the past.



Im telling you. We really did not have exposure to the whole black racism thing in Hawaii. We had racism all right, but blacks werent the target. If Obama got picked on in Hawaii as a child, it would have been because his mother was white, not because he was brown.

I have learned lessons from the past. Just different ones than you have. The lessons I have learned are, that the people who are victimized and pick themselves up and move on, tend to do relatively better in life. They at least dont wallow in their own misery, even if the rest of society still views them poorly. And, the other lesson I have learned from history is that people who hold grudges, and become racist themselves, tend to draw more racism upon themselves when the people they continually flog with the past get sick of it and lash back.


Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Ofcourse you cant, but it is our duty to acknowledge the lessons of the past, and its unfortunate there are some who have obvious personal issues and they let go too far.


Women as a class have been and still are in many places treated like slaves. And not for just a couple hundred years, either. We are talking thousands of years without the right to own property, to education, to vote or have any say in government. You would think that a group of people who had known mistreatment (slavery) would be compassionate towards those who suffered right along with them. But they dont. Because most people, including many black people, arent really against the mistreatment of other humans in general. They are against the mistreatment of their own group. Screw everyone else.


Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Wonderful, shall we do a comparison? I can bet you right now blacks have got it 10 times worst.


Of course they do. At least in their own minds. It couldnt be the SLavs who had it worse.

simple.wikipedia.org...


Slavs are the people who live in Eastern and central Europe. They include Russians, Poles, Czechs, Serbs, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Bulgarians, Slovaks, Macedonians and Croatians.


Because when you say this'


Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Right, and iv never heard 12 million jews being massacred decades ago. Its easy for me to say that and then deny the holocast or better yet say that 12 americans died in the war of iraq so "everybody dies". Its exactly what your doing.


You are ignoring the simple fact that it wasnt 12 million Jews that died in the holocaust.

en.wikipedia.org...


Jews, 5.9 million [30], Soviet POWs 2–3 million [31], Ethnic Poles 1.8–2 million [32][33], Romani 220,000–1,500,000 [34][35], Disabled 200,000–250,000 [36], Freemasons 80,000–200,000 [37],
Homosexuals 5,000–15,000 [38], Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500–5,000


Remember those Slavs? Well they included the Poles, who got the shaft in the Holocaust too. But no one is holding candlelight vigils for them now, are they?

To learn the lessons from history, we need to actually look at all of history. Not only our own myopic view of our own. People have treated one another horribly. And black people have treated others horribly too. There is no ethnicity that is completely innocent of perpetrating horror on others. And there is no ethnicity that has gotten off without some suffering of their own. What happens all too often is that those who have suffered go on to feel justified in making others suffer, and the cycle continues.

Holding on to a sense of victimhood doesnt tend to make people more compassionate towards others. But less so.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
He isnt.


Yes, and you continue to think that and deny the fact. Denial.




Im not a Republican.


I dont care, you certainly seem to be making an effort covering the ass. Now as this is a newspaper catering to predominantly GOP supporters, and as the majority of GOP supporters has the assumption that this is Obamas stimulus, I think it speaks for itself.


Originally posted by southern_Guardian
I grew up in Hawaii. We didnt pick on blacks and jews. We were relatively oblivious to the whole black and jewish issue. We had our own issues.


Thats Hawaii buddy, for petes sakes thats the environment you grew up in. The majority of america has gone through the history of racism and comparing an entire people to animals. Hawaii is one of the most liberal tolerant states for petes sakes.... you have not lived in the south for most of your life, you have not lived in the midwest for most of your life. You obviously are equating your personal experiences to what the majority suffered in comparison. You cannot compare your childhood in a tolerant society in small hawaii as compared to those in the south and the midwest.



You are setting an example. You are feeding these 11 and 13 year olds the message that blacks are compared to chimps.


Yes so we should not rail blatant old fashioned racism because the kids may learn of it? Kids learn from the lessons of history buddy. Its our job to prevent history from repeating itself. Real BS excuse to justify that stunt from the NY post.


Im telling you. We really did not have exposure to the whole black racism thing in Hawaii.


So because I was brought up outside of europe after world war two, and that I never had exposure to anti-senetism and killings of my family as those 12 million jews did, I should just assume my experiences were the same as those jews? Or palestinians? Your logic doesnt work.

No no continue the clean up job illusion.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 04:08 AM
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posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 05:34 AM
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Maybe the people that looked at a monkey and immidiatly saw Obama, have the problem. I think it is rather funny myself. It's even better now that people are mad.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 07:53 AM
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Don't know if this was mentioned yet, I've only gone through a few pages of posts but wanted to jump ahead to give you my humble opinion.

First and foremost, the creator of the cartoon choose his words poorly but the subject matter does fit if you look at the Stimulus Bill as the chimp. When they're young, chimps are cute, cuddly, and obedient. Everybody loves a baby chimp. But when they get older, they become incredibly strong aggressive creatures who will rip your face off at the drop of the hat. You cannot control a mature chimp.

Sounds like the Stimulus Bill to me. Everybody wants to embrace it and feel its love, but just wait a few years when the full measure of the bill matures. I don't think I will be feeling the love then. Just my opinion.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 08:09 AM
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To be honest, the best explanation I have seen here was about this cartoon having to do with Travis the Chimp that was gunned down by the police department a few days shy of this cartoon being published.

This works fine with the "barrel of monkeys" who wrote the stimulus idea.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Mynaeris
There seems to be two threads about this non-event. So I will just copy my comment from the other thread.

I am surprised ANYBODY is seeing this as racist. When I think of all the pictures implying that Bush was a chimp (I'll add a couple of links below). The race card is getting really old - the stimulus bill does look like a cartload of chimps wrote it with crayons on toilet paper. So I think it's fair comment.

Pic One

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

If you want a few more let me know.








But.... Bush actually looks similar to a chimp, Obama does not.
Although I do agree that if it were any politician other than one who happens to be black, it would be a non-issue.

I can't presume what the intent was but the reaction is the standard use of the "race card".



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by Djarums
 


Could it be, that it refers to his speech-writer and/or, his administation councellors? Is there not a rule, that Congress must vote on any bill for a majority vote, before it is passed (no comment on how many they deem necessary to be attending when voting...)? Or is this bill actually one that is proven, that Mr Obama suggested/drew up himself?



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thI just believe that if you are seeing the chimp in that cartoon as Obama, that says more about you than the cartoon.

and there you have it. spot on. take a look at WHO is assuming this.

you know...watching this unfold and watching how belligerent so many people in Atlanta have become makes me believe that this whole having black president (okay half black) is going to backfire on this country and give us even more problems with racism being brought out into the open...from blacks and whites and hispanics and asians and all the other races (just to clarify that it exists in all races to varying degrees by individual). but maybe that's what has to happen before everyone finally gets over themselves and realizes we're all just humans.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 09:56 AM
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I figured that you guys might need to look at the cartoon again since I cant figure out how someone could assume its Obamma. It is a common term especially in north eastern states to insult writings by saying it looks like it was written by a monkey. The only racism this actually exposes is the people that thought it was Obamma because it obviously shows that people in this country look for reasons to be insulted. I personally am tired of having to watch what I say because some one else is stupid.
Case in point I was in a discussion at work told a black woman if she doesn't like this country move to Canada. Four hours later I was in our hr department being accused of racism and being told by them that i told her to move back to africa. Luckily for me she was stupid and when i told hr that I told her to move to Canada she said "see thats in Africa". After that the guy in HR laughed and sent me on my way. Further note to the story I ended up having to file a complaint with hr at there request because apparently they wanted to get rid of her since I was not the first person she made accusations against and they were trying to dismiss her! Moral to the story idiots can always make up reasons to be offended where a victim society.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by Djarums
 


Can I ask one simple little question. or possibly two?

1. How many Presidents write bills for the house and senate?

2. Did Barrack Obama write the most recent Stimulus bill?

Let me answer these hard ones for you if I may. NO!!!

You see in America all spending legislation starts in the House and Senate with Authors who happen to be, YUP YOU GUESSED IT, Senators and Congressmen, well at least sponsored, they are usually written by PAC's and such.. The Constitution is pretty clear on this very issue, so I wonder who the monkey in the comic is, because GOD KNOWS it is NOT Obama unless you have some need like Rev Al Sharpton to see a racist behind every tree and are as ignorant of the American process as ole Rev. AL.

I personally think that all of them in D.C. are monkeys, or is that an insult to monkeys? But I most assuredly know that President Obama did not write the most recent stimulus Package as the following link shows...

Actual Senate Sponsors

Actual House Sponsors

I do not see Obama's name as a Sponsor does anyone else? Is Hillary Clinton and Harry Reid black? Is Cong. Obey Black? As far as I know the current only sitting black Senator is Burris and he didn't sponsor the bill, nor did he WRITE IT.

So I would admit freely hat this cartoonist did make monkeys of some, just whom that some is I would like to say are those that can not tell the difference between WRITING Legislation and Signing it, those that see racists behind every tree, and those that have never seen School House Rock's "I am just a bill"



Good Day, and please read the Constitution if you get a chance, you never know what you may learn!


Edited to add the Bill Video for Educational purposes.

[edit on 2/23/2009 by theindependentjournal]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Djarums
 


I think it is offensive too but not for the same reasons perhaps. First of all, Bush has been parodied as a Chimp for years, with the photos as the other posts have already shown more than well. So linking Obama to a chimp is no big deal to me nor is it offensive. But in fact, that is not at all what the message in the cartoon was, and anyone who can read it honestly would know this. You pay WAY too much attention to the Press who are just WAITING to be insulted so they can pounce on perceived threats against their Presidential choice and spew it like truth.
As I said there are a helluva lot more directly targeted images of Bush looking like a chimp than Obama so Obama has a few more coming to be remotely even. I will laugh heartily at those as I laughed at those of Bush.

The message though in the cartoon to anyone but Al Sharpton, who makes a career of race baiting, was that the AUTHORS of the Stimulus bill were chimpanzees. Actually, Nancy Pelosi likes to take credit for it so the cartoon actually compares her most directly to the chimpanzee. I agree with that. She is. Chimpanzees do what they can including stealing and strong-arming to attain and retain the highest positions in a clan. So does she. Chimpanzees will kill their own to reach a higher social position. So does she [figuratively]. Chimpanzees take as much as they can take in order to survive, at the expense of others in the clan depending on availability of resources... So ... has she...

So Nancy is more directly the chimp in that cartoon. I see the resemblance too... as with Bush. But again, thats just because we are all related to Primates originally...

And before you pounce and say how the other side does this too, read this well: Of COURSE they do. That is why you and I are NOT in that world. I do not agree with party lines. I look at the people and form my opinions that way.

But... Now onto what I REALLY find offensive about that cartoon...

What I find offensive is the underlying issue. This poor chimpanzee was treated like a human for years and it was forgotten that this animal was indeed an animal. People have no idea how strong primates are. This animal was a danger to everyone and unlike humans, did not have the same reasoning capability. So a momentary pang of fear could [and did] spark a reaction that in the primate world would have the victim running away with some scratches and few bites, but in the human world, can mean the death or maiming of a human being. The chimpanzee was kept in an improper setting. I do not believe the owner was fully cognizant of the danger but I additionally do not feel she is prosecutable for having the animal in her home. She as many others, were made to feel that Chimpanzees could reason like us, feel, like us, and BE us. Clearly the truth is they cannot.

So that is what offended me. The woman maimed will never have a life as she did. This was grossly unfair to all involved.

Marc



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by slimpickens93

Originally posted by Mynaeris
There seems to be two threads about this non-event. So I will just copy my comment from the other thread.

I am surprised ANYBODY is seeing this as racist. When I think of all the pictures implying that Bush was a chimp (I'll add a couple of links below). The race card is getting really old - the stimulus bill does look like a cartload of chimps wrote it with crayons on toilet paper. So I think it's fair comment.

Pic One

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

If you want a few more let me know.








But.... Bush actually looks similar to a chimp, Obama does not.
Although I do agree that if it were any politician other than one who happens to be black, it would be a non-issue.

I can't presume what the intent was but the reaction is the standard use of the "race card".


I am sure though that any resourceful photo manipulator can do to Obama what they did to Bush. And yes he will look like a chimp. We cant help it! We are related to Primates!



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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just out of respect for him as the president they shouldnt have posted it but 1st amendment entitles freedom of speech & press. they can say what they want because guess who is still in charge? Obama, so yeah let em write but remember who runs things.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by Mynaeris
 


The cartoonist probably figured he could skate around his racist motivations by what you suggest, which is that if some libs were (humorously) comparing Bush to a chimp, it would be OK to do similarly to Omama. But your defense breaks down in two ways. First of all, referring to Blacks as Simians is standard Right wing, racist hate. Secondly, no libs were implying Bush should be slain.

Though rude, it's not hateful to compare a White to a chimp. In the case of Bush, in some of his pictures, he did look a bit like one, when he wasn't looking like Alfred E. Neuman. But comparing a Black to a chimp, in the context of centuries of such racist comparisons, is altogether different. Moreover, to insult, add injury via a DEAD chimp.

This is a borderline threat on Obama's life. Those who champion this cartoon ought to be ashamed and possibly investigated.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by slimpickens93

Originally posted by Mynaeris
There seems to be two threads about this non-event. So I will just copy my comment from the other thread.

I am surprised ANYBODY is seeing this as racist. When I think of all the pictures implying that Bush was a chimp (I'll add a couple of links below). The race card is getting really old - the stimulus bill does look like a cartload of chimps wrote it with crayons on toilet paper. So I think it's fair comment.

Pic One

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

If you want a few more let me know.








But.... Bush actually looks similar to a chimp, Obama does not.
Although I do agree that if it were any politician other than one who happens to be black, it would be a non-issue.

I can't presume what the intent was but the reaction is the standard use of the "race card".



oh really. bush looks like a chimp but obama doesnt?

Curious George anyone? Obama looks just like him



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