NY cartoon appears to link Obama to dead chimp

Originally posted by dragonseeker
Last time I checked, "talk to" was not the same as "detain". SS talks to people all the time without actually placing them in custody..this guy would be worth a conversation.

Um, okay. The SS (why does that acronym look familiar?) have no right or reason to "talk to" the cartoonist about anything. If you look at the cartoon, it's not Joe Skinhead shooting the chimp, it's the COPS. You know, like the cops who just shot an actual chimp a few days ago. You are seriously reaching...

reply to post by alienj


I agree with your statements....to a point. I can't think of any "constructive" cartoons concerning political figures. Political office is one of the harshest jobs in the world when it comes to criticism and it really took flight during the Clinton/Bush eras.

My main worry is that President Obama will be considered above the law when it comes to criticism. And when you can't criticise the president for doing a bad job managing a situation, you create a ruler.

reply to post by Feltrick


Wow!! we, meaning all of us better take Obama off a pedestal and scrutinize everything he does. The man who was not going to run Washington like every other president sure it doing a good job of following in their footsteps. Maybe he is finding out how hard the job really is? He was the one who criticized lobbyist and pointed out McCain's ties to lobbyists. Now Obama's administration is made up of lobbyist. Everyone has a responsibility to watch every politician least we become a nation like Venezuela, voting out democracy for 13 bucks a week more in our paychecks.

This was bound to happen. What do you expect when a toon of this nature hits the eyes of those "less intelligent". The point is the toon can be perceived as racist. It doesn't matter by who. Personally I didn't even want obama in office I wanted ron paul. But that doesn't change the facts. Blacks have historically been referred to as monkeys. People who know no better associate the plan with the person who pushes the plan. How can you not see the connection?

Originally posted by ScRuFFy63
How can you not see the connection?

The problem is having to make the connection in the first place, that means it's subjective and it's not direct enough to label it racist. If the police hadn't JUST shot an actual chimp, I wouldn't feel so strongly that this cartoon really had NO intent of linking Obama to the chimp. People can make all kinds of connections to lead all kinds of places, that's what ART is all about. Political cartoons are a form of art, like it or not. The guy said he didn't mean it that way, out of the horses mouth...what reason do you have to say he's lying??

[edit on 19-2-2009 by 27jd]

Just believe me when I say most black people will understand the connection within seconds of seeing the cartoon. Its not like you actually have to put it together. It's just there staring you in the face.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by ScRuFFy63
How can you not see the connection?

The problem is having to make the connection in the first place, that means it's subjective and it's not direct enough to label it racist. If the police hadn't JUST shot an actual chimp, I wouldn't feel so strongly that this cartoon really had NO intent of linking Obama to the chimp. People can make all kinds of connections to lead all kinds of places, that's what ART is all about. Political cartoons are a form of art, like it or not. The guy said he didn't mean it that way, out of the horses mouth...what reason do you have to say he's lying??

[edit on 19-2-2009 by 27jd]

When it comes to racism, nothing(rarely, anyway) is direct, because of the social stigma of it..racists went covert long ago..mostly between the lines stuff now. Now, I don't know what the cartoonist said in response to the uproar, but he's an adult with a brain. He had to know people would make the connection that they're making, rightly or not..so, did he just want to stir the pot? he was successful, but it may not turn out the way he wanted. I just think it was stupid, and frankly, not funny. Keep in mind, the woman who's face just got torn off..still in the hospital..and they run this? take racism out of it for a sec..that woman will need face transplant surgery..she has a family..imagine if that were your mom, and you saw the post making fun of the whole thing? c'mon..this was epically stupid, racism or not

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by ScRuFFy63
How can you not see the connection?

The guy said he didn't mean it that way, out of the horses mouth...what reason do you have to say he's lying??

[edit on 19-2-2009 by 27jd]

Why would he admit to racism? When did we start trusting the media?

reply to post by ScRuFFy63


You a mind reader Scruffy?

Perceived as racist, I am so glad you can see into my mind and know what I am thinking and what others are thinking. The cartoon never solicited ( Obama, blacks, racism) at first glance to me, It wasn't till after Al Sharpton made a point out of being concerned over it. Like I said before the people in the business of racism is going to see racism and racists everywhere, no matter what you say or do. Business is slow for them now days. So do I live by a racist point of view? or do I become intellectually enlightened and get away from the past or what you say "Blacks have historically been referred to as monkeys", Isn't judging someone by something from the past or some association racist in its own right. I will not apologize for something I never thought, nor will I brand a cartoonist a racist for a cartoon that had nothing to do with racism no matter how you or someone else might perceive it. Maybe its time people look inward, and instead of lashing out because of their racial tendencies, try to become a better person by putting those tendencies aside and think like an educated person. I understand racist made associations in the past with certain analogies, however this cartoon never even came close to comparing those to items. Only in the mind of a racist can those bridges be linked.
Stimulus package dumb(so dumb a monkey could have written it)
Monkey dead(now he cant write another stimulus package) - Who wrote the stimulus package, a white women(Nanci Pelosi) and a white man(Sen. Reed)
Any associations outside that comes from the mind of the reader, so I would have to say the racism resides inside the reader.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by alienj]

reply to post by Mynaeris


Were any of the links to the pictures you had posted in the New York Times? Because they look like bad paintshop and I doubt got any where near the amount of press coverage as this; so I'm sure they didn't know calling a black guy a monkey was racist or anything and I'm sure their not aware they're a republican newspaper.

What a weak excuse. "They did it to bush so its ok to do it to Obama"

heres the difference.

We've seen 8years of Bush policies, we know Bush lied to us about the war and wasted billions. If somebody kills another individual, does that justify you doing it? Monkeys are evidently linked to blacks as racial, the very least Obama could have been compared to another animal.

Disgusting, and the fact people are trying to justify it shows us the mentality that got america to where it is today, and in the eyes of the world.

conservatives acted with outrage when a similar thing was implied to Bush. Why lower your standards and result to the same?

AlienJ nobody said anything about you. I don't know or care in the slightest about your thoughts. Nobody asked for your apology. The fact that this is even a discussion means it can be perceived in different ways. I did not brand anybody anything. I simply stated my opinion on the toon. Why is it ok for Obama to be criticized but not the creator of the toon? Also how do you know what was going on in the heads of the people who created/allowed the toon? I've stated how it can be viewed as racist, how can you say for sure it's not? Why is it nobody these days can discuss racism with out being call racist? It still exists.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by ScRuFFy63]

Originally posted by ScRuFFy63
Why would he admit to racism? When did we start trusting the media?

Like I said before, if he's lying he's just a coward like all closet bigots and not even worthy of a second thought, in my opinion. If that paper is meant for ignorant people, and that's the connection they make and agree with those views, then what do WE care anyway? F them. I just can't sit here and rally against freedom of expression, no matter how ignorant it may or may not be. The only way to fight it is to ignore it, otherwise you give it fuel and can unknowingly put an entire race on the defense which may actually drive some to the side of ignorance and hate because they feel under attack for wrongs commited long before they were born. That's how you perpetuate racism.

Originally posted by dragonseeker
Keep in mind, the woman who's face just got torn off..still in the hospital..and they run this? take racism out of it for a sec..that woman will need face transplant surgery..she has a family..imagine if that were your mom, and you saw the post making fun of the whole thing? c'mon..this was epically stupid, racism or not

I actually agree with you on that point, here...I'll quote my first response to this thread, pg 7:

Gotta cast my not racist vote. The cartoon very obviously is equating the chimp to those who wrote the bill, not Obama himself. However the chimp would probably have done a better job than anybody in our government in all fairness to the chimp. That chimp (Travis), was even able to use house keys and log onto the computer. The only bad taste here is that it's kinda early to be making fun of the incident, a lady did get her hands and face eaten off, and a panicked and drugged up animal that should never have been a pet was killed.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by ScRuFFy63
Why would he admit to racism? When did we start trusting the media?

Like I said before, if he's lying he's just a coward like all closet bigots and not even worthy of a second thought, in my opinion. If that paper is meant for ignorant people, and that's the connection they make and agree with those views, then what do WE care anyway? F them. I just can't sit here and rally against freedom of expression, no matter how ignorant it may or may not be. The only way to fight it is to ignore it, otherwise you give it fuel and can unknowingly put an entire race on the defense which may actually drive some to the side of ignorance and hate because they feel under attack for wrongs commited long before they were born. That's how you perpetuate racism.

Ignoring racism is and could not be the answer to racism.I don't care what happened before I was born. But how could I live with myself if I just sat there all the time and "took it". Racism is continued by things of this nature. Pointing out racism is not perpetuating racism.

wow this has nothing to do with Obama. I'm sure the cartoonist was thinking... bunch of monkys are writing the stimulus bill. monkeys that are sub human and cant think not black people. only racist find racism in places it not

Originally posted by ScRuFFy63
Racism is continued by things of this nature. Pointing out racism is not perpetuating racism.

But I'm telling you, as a VERY tolerant and non bigoted white man, it IS perpetuating it when you (not you directly) are constantly pointing out racism that is FAR from direct or clear. It almost makes me feel like in general, black people don't want things to be better and aren't really interested in going forward, I'm just being honest here. We CANNOT allow the loss of MORE of our freedoms because we disagree with ignorant people. There are ALOT of very offensive things coming from many places that SHOULD be the focus of outrage, because it's all blatant and hateful. Like the church that put the sign saying "Obama....Osama....hmmm are they brothers?" for instance. That is some disgusting and ingnorant crap, and THAT deserves negative attention and attack. This is FAR too subjective to even keep debating.

reply to post by 27jd


I didn't even watch the video until recently. After 2 seconds of looking at the toon I could see the racism in it. I'm not damning the paper or the writer. To me the toon is trivial but I could not let everybody act as if the racism didn't exist in it while it's obvious to me. Doing that would be continuing a culture of lies.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by ScRuFFy63]

Originally posted by ScRuFFy63
To me the toon is trivial but I could not let everybody act as the racism didn't exist in it while its obvious to me. Doing that would be continuing a culture of lies.

How did you "not let everybody act" that way? You stated your opinion, everybody else stated theirs. Anyway, you keep fighting the good fight. Just be sure to hold YOURSELF to the same standards you would hold any other race to (being careful not to say or do anything that may or may not be able to be connected to racism by somebody, that means no white people have no butts jokes) otherwise you would be a hypocrite.