History of Un-armed Citizens

reply to post by buttafuqua


1000% sure of that huh? You have any evidence to back that up? Any thing but your two word assesment?

Thanks for the reply.

If you read the writings of the founding fathers and closely study the legislative intent of the second amendment even more becomes clear about the reality we live in.

Brittan used gun control to try and suppress and control the Americas. Leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Obama, and Bush know very well that if you want to control a population the first thing you must do is take away their ability to fight back. One of the first things Stalin did after coming to power was remove private gun ownership. This pattern of controlling weaponry actually goes back thousands of years. Brittan knew this and so did the American founding fathers, having just experienced it themselves.

So the whole point of the second amendment was to make sure that the general population had not just equal arms to the government, but further, that the general public would hold a majority of the total national firepower. In a situation such as this a federal government could never overstep. The plan worked perfectly, until over time through manipulation of the dissemination of information and subtle, incremental legislation, America has ended up a nation where the general public has no were close to the firepower of our government.

What I am trying to say is that we are already way out of synch with what the second amendment intended. We lost our control and power years ago. Private gun ownership is not necessarily the biggest issue.

There were two things that put us in a situation that is beyond any comprehension of the intent of the second amendment.

Firstly the government controlled National Guard was implemented and largely replaced the people controlled (but government regulated) militia. When this happened the total firepower of our nation was largely centralized with the federal government. Although there had been times like this before when we America had raised large armies for wars, the creation of the National Guard institutionalized this phenomenon so that it would be constant and lasting, even in times of peace.

The second thing that happened is the government developed nuclear weapons. Private Citizens can never control nuclear weapons. So as long as our government has nuclear weapons they will forever have an ultimate trump on any uprising of the American people. Just like nuclear weapons serve to keep sovereign states from around the world from attacking each other out of fear of mass destruction, so the American people can never truly win a revolution against a government that has nuclear weapons.

I am afraid that the only way to get out of this situation now would be with the same incrementalism that got us to this point. But with the powers to be controlling the dissemination of information and all the firepower, it is unlikely we can have a dramatic shift in our cultural and elect people like Ron Paul to being the work of moving us back toward what our founders envisioned.

reply to post by buttafuqua


Great reply and great way to lable people. I can see the GOV is doing a great job at pushing people to try and lable people as outcasts because of their thoughts. Please attend an NRA meeting and tell me about all the uneducated, rednecks, poor people you see there. Your facts are held up by nothing more than what you claim.

reply to post by Boston Tea Party


Thank you for the reply BTP.

Everything you've said is very true. I would also like to add to it.

One of the key tactics used by gun control advocates is to chip away at our gun rights slowly. Already we have 20,000 plus gun laws on the books here in the states, and every time another one passes the gun control advocates have scored a major victory. As long as their agenda keeps moving in the direction they want it to (which is the direction it's going in now) they will take as long as they need.

Trying to pass an all encompassing gun ban law would raise to many red flags, but if you chip away at us nice and steady than the public tends not to make such a big deal out of things. Even things as major as basic liberties.

Passing these laws only makes it easier for criminals to take advantage of the law abiding people of society. Once the citizens lose their rights to keep and bear arms only law breakers will have the upper hand.

One gazelle to the next:"Hey, is it just me or is that lion gettin' closer?"
Next gazelle:"Quit your fear mongering and eat the grass."

Originally posted by liesnomore
I do not own a gun and I do not want a gun. Any firearms promote a violence.
The most people what "scare" me with guns are the Law Enforcement in any form. The can kill innocent person and "walk away" free of any charges.
If you want to feel safe - write petition to your Governor to enforce existing gun law.Draft all gang members to serve in military - that will solve the shortage and disarm all Law Enforcement officers. That way the law obedient citizens will have no reason to fear and firearms will not be needed.
There are many ways to stop the opponent without taking a life.

Can I have some of whatever your takin' this reality stuff is gettin' a little too heavy for me?



[edit on 18-2-2009 by Buddy420]

Don't hate the truth. This is simply a racially based rally cry to the Republican base, to scare whites into believing that Obama is evil.

It really can not happen without violent confrontation. Seriously, you could practically do anything to the American Citizenry, as evidenced by this recently "bail out", of our economy. But do not attempt to strip Americans of our guns. There would be anarchy in the streets.

This is just not a plausible conspiracy. Honestly, think of just how easy it is to own, or posses a gun. I won't happen, and pretending that it does speaks to either your lack of intelect, for not reckgonizing how simply unplausibe this scenario would be, or a racist. Either way, I don't think that is your intention.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


I don't understand, what is the problem with them banning guns... US has the highest rate of death by guns in the world (by a HUGE percentage). people just killing one another, I live in Canada, we're not permitted to have hand guns, etc.. (other then hunting gun) and crime rate is much, much lower then US.

I understand the government intention may not be good as they have proven over and over again for the last few decades, but on the same token i don't see a point allowing guns in everyones hand... specially people that are afraid of the world and their next door neighbours.

We don't need guns to protect ourselves from one another... we need to learn to trust/help one another.

Also another thought. Given the current economic conditions, what if the GOV put a plan into place where you gave up your weapons for money. I know this happens for illegial weapons, but what if they did it for legal ones as well. That would be a great way to remove a lot of weapons from the publics hands in a way they would accept.

I truley astounds me how many people do not understand the Constitution, and amendments. These same people also turn a blind eye towards things that are happening here in the US.

We are slowly being stripped of our rights, plain and simple.

The whole purpose of the second ammendmend, was so that if the US governement became tyranical at any point, the citiczens could revolt against those powers.

Although personal protection is a valid argument, the orginal purpose was to stop a tyranical government. We are now at the brink of having such a government, and if we give up our rights to bear arms, the govenrment will be free to walk all over us in any manner they wish.

I am a proud American, but my government has never scared me so much as it has in the past few years. You can call me an uneducated, racest "whitey" if you want, but the fact remains that it is, and has been our right to bear arms. I will be darned if I let them take that away from me. So if they want my ammunition, fine, they can take it one round at a time. At least I will be doing my part to uphold the Constitution, and the second Ameendment, as it was written.

The thing that I can't believe is that there are so many people that will just roll over and let this happen. As long as they have thier report of what Briney Spears is wearing, or not wearing today, they are happy sheeple.


[edit on 18-2-2009 by KnowMore]

[edit on 18-2-2009 by KnowMore]

Originally posted by buttafuqua
Don't hate the truth. This is simply a racially based rally cry to the Republican base, to scare whites into believing that Obama is evil.

So what was it when gun owners were all ticked off at Clinton and his AWB crap?

What was it last week when two of my (D) friends got their pistol permits or last month when I took a buddy of mine (happens to be non-white) to the range at his request and instructed him in proper use/handling and guided him to his first firearm purchase?

Just a bunch of paranoid racist/partisans too stupid to see that what already happened once before wont ever happen again? Gimme a break.

reply to post by freighttrain


Please support your argument with facts. And by facts I mean the actual numbers. These numbers should represent the deaths by guns measured as a ratio to the total percentage of the population and by clasification. Such as self defense, murder, police used, accidents and such.

Anyone can come on here and make a claim. Please support your claim with proof.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


There are all types of gun owners. I myself am a proud gun owner too, and always have been. I'm just trying to bring an ounce of reality to this discussion. There is absolutely no way that the government could take the guns from the American Public. If it ever tried or a law came out banning firearms, there would be rioting in the streets. It is a basic Constitutional right to bear arms. You can not now put the horse back in the barn now that this has been the law for over 200 years.

We as a citizenry are better armed than most countries armies. I think we have a far better chance of our country being at war with it's citizens based off the ever growing radical militia element in our country.

These folks scare me a lot more than our owned armed forces whom fight everyday for our freedoms.

reply to post by buttafuqua


You are not bringing reality to this conversation. You are bringing your opinion. What about the hand gun ban in DC? What about Eric Holder and his interpretation of the Second Amendment to read that is supports the GOV to have weapons? These are facts of reality and not my opinion.

reply to post by freighttrain


I call that statistic bent. More than half of those "gun related deaths" are suicides, which while it's a shame, guns play no part. Some one who is suicidal will find a way to kill themselves with or with out the gun.

buttafuqua, Thanks again for the response. While I am neither a Republican, nor am I white supremist, I felt that other Americans should know that our government is trying to push a crippling gun legislation. I await your next response.

Originally posted by AgentMoulder
Decent post and some valid points for your arguement. However, I have to correct you on one thing; Obama's plan is not to completely ban firearms and abolish the 2nd amendment, but rather limit the number of "assault rifles" one can own. I am an Obama supporter myself, but I do not agree with his plan to put a fixed number on gun ownership. Honestly I believe it will be nothing more than that of a "plan" or "idea". At the moment there are bigger fish to fry. Mainly the economic turmoil most of are in at the moment. Plus, if it did become more than just an idea, it would be included in the midnight policies ( I believe that's what they are called). So that at least 4-8 years down the road.

As I said, decent but let's keep the fear mongering word play to a minimum. At least provide some quotes from a credible source to show President Obama had plans to "abolish" the 2nd amendment as you stated.

"They" are trying to push through HR45 right now which calls for national registration.

That is one step away from confiscation.

If this were to pass it will instantly create millions of federal criminals as patriots refuse to register that which is guaranteed by the 2a.

You know i have been hearing so much about Obama banning guns and gun rights. I'm very passionate about this issue and believe in our 2nd Amendment rights. I personally own firearms. I think all this fear is a bunch of crap and right now he has not shown that he wants to ban guns. He has recently upheld, according to the NRA, Bush's decision to allow loaded firearms in parks. Wouldn't he have overturnd it right away if he was so anti-gun instead of upholding it?

I'm in no way a staunch supporter of Obama and am very skeptical of him but every rumor I hear is turning out to be crap. He has not, despite rumor, snuck any gun control in the new stimulus except for cross boarder sales from Mexico - according to the NRA.

He has also just opposed the "fairness doctrine" which everyone was scared he would try to push through.

I hope I'm not proven wrong but I think all this talk about Obama and gun control is premature. Right now, nothing but a bunch or fearmongering and unsubstantiated rumors.

I will be forever vigilant and keep an eye on him.

reply to post by liesnomore


Sorry, but 'drafting gangs into the military' would be ignorant. Mainly because they are already being sent there by their gang leaders FOR TRAINING. They are getting invaluable urban combat training, and then those that make it back, teach the others.

Not a bright idea. They are getting too much experience to begin with.

Kids are joining a gangs because they see no future or they was told by their parent of easy way to a wealth. If you put a military uniform on them and give them a proper discipline and education- they will turn out to be a good solders.
If you love your gun so much - at least use a rubber bullets or taser gun. How many of you are attending a church and claim that you love the God, but in the some time you are violate( or willing too) the God Law- "Thau shall no kill".
Seems like you do whatever it is convenient at given moment.

Britain doesn't need it's citizens to have guns, and were getting on fine. . .no mass executions by the goverment yet.

Originally posted by buttafuqua
reply to post by thisguyrighthereIf it ever tried or a law came out banning firearms, there would be rioting in the streets.

Such laws exist, some have been passed and later expired, a pretty major one expired only three years ago. Nobody rioted. Nobody cared. Various municipalities have relative degrees of bans in place as we speak. Are cars being set on fire and windows being smashed as police in riot gear struggle to maintain control? Nope.

It is a basic Constitutional right to bear arms. You can not now put the horse back in the barn now that this has been the law for over 200 years.

I'm glad you still think that piece of paper means anything to anybody. I have lost nearly all faith in that notion.

I think where you and I fundamentally differ is in defining a "gun ban."

They dont have to go door to door and take them all. They only have to outlaw the production/importation of components to, over time, render virtually all arms in civilian hands inoperable. This is being done everyday with the little ATF "importation" laws they pass so quietly.

When is a "ban" truly a"ban" in your book? To be anything stating I cannot keep and bear any firearm counts as an infringement worthy of dismantling the fed and starting over. I assume your criteria is a little more narrow?