how many REAL allies are out there ?

How would you define the ally in war ? Can you say that country is your true ally if the goverment support US goverment but at the same time vast majority (lets say 80%+) citiziens are againt such alliance ? How many goverments which are supporting US in the war in Iraq have a real support of their citiziens ? I would say that its either 0 (that is ZERO) or 1 (UK), still kinda sad when you compare this to the dozens of countries which are according to mr Bush supporting US, I also wonder how many such goverments would be elected in next elections, I know my goverment is done, partly for supporting illegal war led by US when most citiziens were against it, I also wonder if those govermets support US because of "bribes", "blackmail" or simply ass licking of the US goverment

They all want to be our allies when they need us but the whole situation changes when we need them.

How much is their support worth? Id say more allies are bought than not these days. The UK has a mutual interest but I think Australian support comes at a cost.

In Vietnam it was to sure up a protector as the the fear of communism threatened to spread down throughout South East Asia, but I think Iraq was to ensure a palatable Free Trade Agreement in which Oz ended up being screwed over some issues anyway. That could be one reason anyway. There is still the protection in return for Iraq help too in this case but I think the plan is grander than that and extends far beyond Iraq. Why else would the Oz government continue to send troops when there was significant opposition to the Iraq war amongst the population? Same can be said about the UK but they were into it from the start anyway.

You only need to look at the current Iraq Intelligence sex-up scandal plaguing the Australian government to see signs of a concerted effort to press military action in Iraq.

I sure hope it was worth it.

as far as I remember in most cases US only ! acted when it was in their own interests, this tradition goes waaay back into history, remind me who asked you to go to Iraq ? Last time Europe really needed US help was probably in ww2, which started 1st of September 1939 and United States of America "bravely" joined the war 7th of december 1941 and ONLY because they were attacked, you have a great history NOT to interfere if there is not something in it for you.
P.S would not Hitler be stupid and had he kept scientists like Einstein and others it would most likely be Germany and not US who would have 1st nuke and history would be going different way, usa entered europian soil in middle of 1944 and ONLY to secure some influence, you could not keep it all to russians, this is fine example, how much you "care" for others

Originally posted by cargo
How much is their support worth? Id say more allies are bought than not these days. The UK has a mutual interest but I think Australian support comes at a cost.

In Vietnam it was to sure up a protector as the the fear of communism threatened to spread down throughout South East Asia, but I think Iraq was to ensure a palatable Free Trade Agreement in which Oz ended up being screwed over some issues anyway. That could be one reason anyway. There is still the protection in return for Iraq help too in this case but I think the plan is grander than that and extends far beyond Iraq. Why else would the Oz government continue to send troops when there was significant opposition to the Iraq war amongst the population? Same can be said about the UK but they were into it from the start anyway.

You only need to look at the current Iraq Intelligence sex-up scandal plaguing the Australian government to see signs of a concerted effort to press military action in Iraq.

I sure hope it was worth it.

one would have think that any goverment be it australian or any other would do what majority of its citiziens want the goverment to do, but I guess its not how it works anymore, goverment nowadays does what is best for the goverment, not what is best for the country... after all since mr Bush said to all that: " you are either with us or against us" - quite a BS by the way, what goverment could afford to be marked by Bush as "being on the same side as terrorists" ?

The Australian government is in a real bind. I don't know what percentage of Australians are against the illegal undeclared war in Iraq, but it would be very high.

John Howard treading a fine line between keeping friendly diplomatic relations with USA and staying in power. He has already said no reinforcements or replacement troops will be sent to Iraq, when asked when our troops are coming home, he replies that a firm date cannot be given for security and practical reasons.

Our foreign minister says giving an exact date is not possible, because it might not be possible to meet an exact deadline because events can change rapidly. He says an exact date would create an expectation that may not be possible to meet. Typical wimpy political doublespeak.

The opposition leader makes no bones about it, he says if elected he will bring the troops straight home, and this is his most solid up front election pledge. America is starting to smell pretty bad over here in Australia. USA has been holding two Australians under the patriot act for two years now, without any charges being laid, and without any natural justice. If they are guilty of some crime, why have they not been charged with something ?

There is going to be a big anti American backlash here in Australia, this is going to get pretty ugly. There have been two news items on Australian TV in the last week.

One was how Australians have been harassed, intimidated, body searched, photographed and fingerprinted like criminals for just daring to visit your country.

The other item was about an Australian couple that dared to display an Australian flag in the front garden of their American home. They were told to get rid of it by the local council. Only American flags are to be displayed outside homes in America.

So much for Americans loving Australians. You expect us to cheerfully die in your wars, but we are treated like crap in your country.

Here is an article about the Aussie flag being threatened with legal action in Florida.

Flag too true blue for American tastes

In what Mrs Hogberg describes as a "very, very bizarre" form of discrimination, she has been refused permission to display the Australian flag at her house in Windermere, a Citrus County estate north of Tampa.

[Edited on 16-4-2004 by cargo]

[Edited on 16-4-2004 by cargo]

Originally posted by magecarin
How would you define the ally in war ?

Someone of another nation, who sweats and bleeds with you in combat, watches your back as you do his and stays motivated.