Originally posted by Brende
My favorite modern tank would have to be the German Leopard II. My favorite WW II tank is the T-34. The T-34 was the best all around tank built during that war. I agree that the Tiger II was an impressive machine, but the it was a bitch to keep up, and was not built in a sufficient quantity to be fully effective.

The Tiger II was very impressive but it did need lots of maintenance and didnt work well in the cold Russian winter whereas the T-34 wasn't very high tech and rough. As it was rough, it was tough so it withstood the cold weather better and could destroy the Tigers when they were not working or burning. Quantity mattered more than quality in those circumstances as about 3 T-34s could be made in the time it took to make 2 Tigers
as they used mass production with not as good workmanship as the Tigers but it didnt matter


[Edited on 17/4/04 by Hyperen]

yeah ur right about the quantity thing
strange how no one has decided to build a combined tank u know like having the m1a's firepower and stuff with the challangers speed and the t-80s armor

I would rate the LEO-II the best ...if it only had the blow out panels tech in the hull as well as the turret


OH yeah on other thing...This idea that a tank has no value until its tested in combat is moronic. Think about it. In the 1950s the best tanks would have been the T-34; AMX-13, Sherman and Pershing tanks By defination the Centurion T-54/55 and M-47/48 would have been garbage

In the 1960s it would have been M-48 super sherman and the T-54 tanks while the T-62/64 Chieftain and M-60 tanks would have been total waste of money

Prior to the 1982 lebanon war , the Centurion better than the Chieftain and the M-48/M-60 better than the M-1???? And the T-62 better than the T-64/72???

In fact after the lebanon war and before ODS in 1991 the Merk would have been the best.

I think some people have to go back to school

[Edited on 17-4-2004 by psteel]

Originally posted by psteel
By defination the Centurion T-54/55 and M-47/48 would have been garbage
[Edited on 17-4-2004 by psteel]

The M48 saw combat with the IDF in the 67 and 73 wars.

(with mixed results from what I have read)



..

[Edited on 17-4-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by psteel
By defination the Centurion T-54/55 and M-47/48 would have been garbage
[Edited on 17-4-2004 by psteel]

The M48 saw combat with the IDF in the 67 and 73 wars.

(with mixed results from what I have read)

Exactly, thats what I meant when I said...

"In the 1960s it would have been M-48, super sherman and the T-54 tanks while the T-62/64 Chieftain and M-60 tanks would have been total waste of money"

It did alright and was also used in 1971 by Pakistan. Tank was not bad the FCS was too slow to be employed in battle and could get out shot by Indians gunners in there centurions...or so Ive read. I gather Israeli gunners used a much faster method of rangeing for the main gun.

Originally posted by psteel

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by psteel
By defination the Centurion T-54/55 and M-47/48 would have been garbage
[Edited on 17-4-2004 by psteel]

The M48 saw combat with the IDF in the 67 and 73 wars.

(with mixed results from what I have read)

Exactly, thats what I meant when I said...

"In the 1960s it would have been M-48, super sherman and the T-54 tanks while the T-62/64 Chieftain and M-60 tanks would have been total waste of money"

It did alright and was also used in 1971 by Pakistan. Tank was not bad the FCS was too slow to be employed in battle and could get out shot by Indians gunners in there centurions...or so Ive read. I gather Israeli gunners used a much faster method of rangeing for the main gun.

It is interesting to note that the IDF were using vintage WWII US vehicles in the sixties and early seventies. Shermans, US half-tracks, etc. I guess the desert climate helps extend the vehicles lifespan. Plus, the IDF were using whatever vehicles they could get their hands on.


I am not sure how the M-60s rated in Vietnam and Desert Storm. I am going to have to do a little research.....

Originally posted by Facefirst

It is interesting to note that the IDF were using vintage WWII US vehicles in the sixties and early seventies. Shermans, US half-tracks, etc. I guess the desert climate helps extend the vehicles lifespan. Plus, the IDF were using whatever vehicles they could get their hands on.


I am not sure how the M-60s rated in Vietnam and Desert Storm. I am going to have to do a little research.....

I think the first thing Israels do when they get a bit of western gear is see what they can rip out and replace with their own components. They have their way of doing things...and yes since they didn't have much of their own industry they had to take others models appart and rebuild them to learn how to do that and make them better.

From what I read Marine M-60s did fine in the desert with ERA and M-833 APFSDS ....but they mostly went up gainst Type 59 knock offs.