It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is Dr ZAHI HAWASS EVIL? A new Egpytian Megalomaniac!

page: 3
4
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 10:24 AM
link   
reply to post by Hanslune
 


Would you like to point out to me the "racist" comments I made? Or would you just like to not address what I said? I proved my statement of donkeys bringing about major discoveries? Why is that "racist". The racist card is such a bore - whenever people don't like what you say they say you are racist.

regarding what I personally experienced from the staff at ALL the major sites including the museum, where I was offered "special" tours by the staff for extra monies. I don't want to discuss your idealistic perspective. Let's discuss hard truths.

The museum in Cairo is a disaster with most of the "valuable" items uncatalogued. Add to that all the unlocatable items?

Which part would you still like to dispute?




[edit on 20-2-2009 by Mynaeris]




posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 07:31 PM
link   
reply to post by Mynaeris
 


Oh my

じんしゅさべつしゅぎしゃ



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 08:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by zazzafrazz...its not that she violated the agreement, its the fact that you cant get a licence to carry out research if he feels its not something he agrees with.
How can any research take place if you are so limited in what you can do or conclude?


Point One: Hawass is a showman, and he is showing the goods for his people. He is the antithesis of appropriation of voice. Where western archaelogists have been telling Egyptians about their past for doney's ears, he has taken back their voice and their culture. He may be a loudmouth, but he is standing tall for their culture.

Point Two: Ain't gonna be no Elgin Marbles (Ok, that's Greek) under his watch.

Point Three: In Ontario, and I'm betting in most places, the shovel doesn't hit dirt unless you have a site licence backed by a solid research plan. Even testing is tightly controlled. One person has control of the licence and calls the shots on the dig. You can't even field walk without a conservation licence.

Remember that archaeology destroys its database. You need a reason to dig, cuz you generally have one good shot. And researchers are notoriously single minded and narrowly focussed. If Hawass says he's not been provided a good enough game plan...he may well be right.

Point Four: He insists on researchers publishing within 5 years? Good man! Why should Egypt's cultural heritage be excavated and rot in a drawer on some campus. If you don't need to dig it up, leave it be.

He may seem an arse...but every field requires its ringmasters. Ultimately, archaeological investigation is paid for by tax dollars. To justify that expenditure, you need to get the folks at home excited.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 11:29 PM
link   
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Well said comments JC



Where western archaelogists have been telling Egyptians about their past for doney's ears, he has taken back their voice and their culture. He may be a loudmouth, but he is standing tall for their culture.


I've noted to many hear that ZH is well loved in his own country, has the support of the Egyptolotists and the dictatorship. They all support him, he isn't a loose cannon working on his own.

The fringe don't like him, well gosh what a surprize! I think the fringe if they could would dynamite the bedrock that theSphinx sits on to find the "Hall of records"!



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 12:50 AM
link   

I think the fringe if they could would dynamite the bedrock that theSphinx sits on to find the "Hall of records"!


A 'Hall of Records' would be a wonderful find, providing new information and supporting or disproving theories. Unfortunately for 'the fringe', the information would be recorded using technology of the time. The 'King Lists' record the progression of dynasties from the time and those histories are further supported by Egypt's contemporary neighbors. There isn't a hidden advanced technology.

A lot of authors and mischief makers seem to believe that Hawass is suppressing the location. All this because he can't come to terms with the 'fact' that aliens helped a lost (non-Egyptian) civilization build the pyramids.

The Hall of Records will therefore reveal blueprints/ schematics for building space ships and stargates. It will reveal our alien ancestry and provide starmaps so we can return 'home' to the stars


If anything close to a Hall of Records is found, what are the odds it will contain records of tributes, possessions, conquests and trade deals with neighbors? Given the water table on the plateau, what are the odds that anything has avoided water damage and rot? Paint and papyrus don't go well with water. It's a nice idea but not much more



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:14 AM
link   
Hans
I'd rather be fringe than a history board 'sherrif', but thankfully I'm neither.

I do not consider myself an expert any longer even after my PHD. If I did remain in the profession, I sure as hell wouldn't be posting these light threads on ATS. My threads tend to be tongue in cheek or light, thats my choice.

I've never actually gone onto fringe mags or web on Hawass or Egyptology aside from one google I did for this post. You do this technique repeatedly to belittle and to be exclusionary to people who want to express an opinion different to yours, and immediately label them 'fringe'. Do people need to have only your exprience, credentials and opinions to be able to post without being insulted. Let people argue with you without getting personal.

ATS is in nature about conspiracies and wierd stuff, if people want to think UFO's built the pyramids. let them, they have a right to the dicussions. I dont personally, but I love to hear what they say hence I come to ATS, If I wanted to focus only serious discussion I would stick to HOM.

You are making an assumption on me because I differ in opinion to you, hhhmmm much like I must be making assumptions about Hawass....

All Egyptologists do not support him. Definitive statements don’t make your argument right.



[edit on 21-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 02:08 AM
link   
reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Howdy ZF



You do this technique repeatedly to belittle and to be exclusionary to people who want to express an opinion different to yours, and immediately label them 'fringe'.


Hans: Because you are repeating fringe claims as gosh dare I say it, gospel, you might not believe in fringe, think like fringe but if you talk like it I think I can be allowed to mention the phrase. In my humble opinion your opinions are based on fringe materials.
I



ATS is in nature about conspiracies and wierd stuff, if people want to think UFO's built the pyramids. let them, they have a right to the dicussions.


Hans: The motto of ATS is "deny ignorance", you seem to wish to not only welcome ignorance but to ask it to marry you. Sorry I'm not interested in that sort of self-delusionary grandisement.




All Egyptologists do not support him.


Hans: Yes you are right, but AFAWK the majority do, the Egyptian people do and the government of Egypt does - it would seem you are out voted.

LOL

Oh and the sheriff here is Byrd, if you'd like to attract her attention start a thread on rock art. I would also recommend that you note the presence of Harte, K-Man and a few others, all saying about the same as me. ZH is a bit of flash ass but he does good work for Egyptology and Egypt.

Nuking the Sphinx to get to the Hall of records will just have to wait until he retires. By the way his replacement will probably be the the guy that now holds a job he once held. You better look him up so you can start up the hate machine....not that I think that you ZF run it.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
Hans
I'd rather be fringe than a history board 'sherrif', but thankfully I'm neither...
ATS is in nature about conspiracies and wierd stuff, if people want to think UFO's built the pyramids. let them, they have a right to the dicussions. I dont personally, but I love to hear what they say hence I come to ATS, If I wanted to focus only serious discussion I would stick to HOM.


Point One: Not everything at HOM is what I would call journal-quality.

Point Two: Just because you are out on the fringes doesn't mean it has to be stoopid. I think it is the responsability of those here that know a little more to pass that along to some of those who are out past the fringes and on into never-never land. It's up to them to take that under advisal.

Point Three: The fringes are where the fun is, because for some, it can also be called 'cutting edge'. The fringes is where Tom Dillehay made his mark, right? He challenged the status quo, but never forgot the science.

All that said, it is irresponsible to to encourage ignorance.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 04:52 PM
link   
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Howdy JC

Oh definitely HOM has its group of fringe. Right now they are going over, for the two-hundred and fifty first time (humor) whether the pyramids were built by the Egyptians. However HOM does have some real professional there. I sometimes can get questions answered there sometimes not. They are going thru a low ebb phase at the moment.

I love fringe, I got into archaeology because I read Aku Aku by old Thor, most of the stuff he came up with was later proven to be wrong but what an adventurer and gentleman. When the net first came up I use to mine it for archaeological ideas and information which I would pass back to less technically mined associates. Even after all these years I still come across things I don't know aboutand pass them on to associates in whose areas. Occassionally I find something of value to them. A good example is the structures made by Native Australians. News to me!

The problem with fringe is they NEVER abandon bad ideas, so anything new gets lost in the crap.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 05:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hanslune Oh definitely HOM has its group of fringe. Right now they are going over, for the two-hundred and fifty first time (humor) whether the pyramids were built by the Egyptians.


That's one of my favourite discussions. Back in the day, I laid some Graham Hancock on an old-school middle-eastern archeo. He calmly told me that the tools used to cut the blocks out are being excavated right beside the partially-quarried stone. He knew becasue he was there. Problem solved.

I took his courses, instead.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 07:29 PM
link   
Im continuing ingnorance?
Let me summarise what I have said:

- Hawass is a grandstander egomaniac and ass...you all agree

- He has good things for Egypt and and the preservation of antiquities, training and publishing etc -you all agreed

- He has been accused of limiting research - you all have agreed, perhaps to a different level as to whether he was justified to, but there was an agreeance that it took place.

- I said I dislike his showmanship and showing up to promote and exagerate to media his contribution to the work.- you all agreed but your levels of offence taking to this simply differ to mine.


- I made no reference ot the hall of records thoeories, a topics that interests 'fringe' , somehow above its implied I have...again another implication.

- I dont like him. I never implied race hate or religion had anything to do with this, (and if I told you my part race you may swallow your words) Hans accused me of pulling the race card and retracted when I corrected him - you all agreed you didnt really like his showmanship etc but liked what he had acheived. I believe I had supported that also but to a different level.


His in your face media whoring is what I dislike. This does not encourage ingnorance, This is a personal opinion.

Im not sure why my personal decision to dislike him and his behaviours listed above (and appreciation of the good) should imply I am encouranging ignorance when all I have done is differ in opinion as to whether I choose to support him or not.

I still stand by anyone can post without being made to feel other members will sheriff a board and will attack you if you differ in a opinion on someone. Byrd is not who i was referring to and I never mentioned her ??? I immediatly could see that Byrd is a professional in the field and I value her opinions. So again another implication I did not make.

JC, Dont mistake other posters for what I have said, I kind think the same way you do but I think you should reread my posts.
I wasnt using fringe as an insult, Hans was. I am in agreeance with your thought on the subject.
Regarding Hawass perhaps just our levels of support of him is different.


Is it that I differ in opinion on a personality that makes me 'fringe' or 'ignorant' etc? If so, I will then find it very inhibiting and constraining for future discussions unless I toe the party line




[edit on 21-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 08:24 PM
link   
reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Fringe isn't an insult any more than labeling someones opinions as liberal, conservative, progressive or socialist.

The racist here was Myneris, not you.

You seem to be trying to move the discussion from talking about Zahi's actions to talking about other posters and their motives as you imagine them - let me be very clear - it ain't gonna happen. Try a different approach.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 08:31 PM
link   
reply to post by Hanslune
 


I have reiterated my thoughtsa on Hawas above, In fact I have been very clear and with little emotion, bringing it back to exactly what I think, I feel its been derailed.
Regarding race, I beg to differ, You did say "if you are going to pull the racist card, dont...." or something like that till I corrected you, which showed me you weren't reading my posts clearly.

I have not moved my appraoach?I have summarised, again you have made the wrong implication.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 08:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by Hanslune
 


I have reiterated my thoughtsa on Hawas above, In fact I have been very clear and with little emotion, bringing it back to exactly what I think, I feel its been derailed.
Regarding race, I beg to differ, You did say "if you are going to pull the racist card, dont...." or something like that till I corrected you, which showed me you weren't reading my posts clearly.

I have not moved my appraoach?I have summarised, again you have made the wrong implication.


Hans: yep you got it wrong, I said,



Why? If you are going to pull out the Muslim card be warned. All the Egyptologists I knew were dedicated to science and about 30% were Coptics.


When you countered I explained why I said that. I should also note to you that mynaeris had made racist remarks before you posted- which you didn't note or address, I would take that as meaning you agreed. But I think we can both agree that you aren't a racist, just a fringe believer who hates Hawass.

Anyway anything else to say about Zahi Hawass?



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 09:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by Hanslune
 


I have reiterated my thoughtsa on Hawas above, In fact I have been very clear and with little emotion, bringing it back to exactly what I think, I feel its been derailed.
Regarding race, I beg to differ, You did say "if you are going to pull the racist card, dont...." or something like that till I corrected you, which showed me you weren't reading my posts clearly.

I have not moved my appraoach?I have summarised, again you have made the wrong implication.


Hans: yep you got it wrong,
ZF- No you said i didnt talk about Hawass which I did, again you made the wrong assumption, Im ok with you thinking I got it wrong, but really you are not OK with difference of opinion If you actually read carefully my posts our opinion are close in parts, and different on:
-Whether we personallly like him.
-Different on finding his media grandstanding OK or not. And we are close to agreeing on this anyway.
-And different on whther it is OK to restrict research, are there justifications at times to do so. You said yes, I said no, I am rethinking some of that and will let you know, if I feel I wont be attacked. But if I toe the party line, all should be OK hey?
those 2 points and a bit of a third point, the rest are the same, so are you wrong also? Great debating: I dont agree with your personality dislikes therefore You got it Wrong... thats what my petulant child would say.

"But I think we can both agree that you aren't a racist, just a fringe believer who hates Hawass"
ZF- You really hate being disagreed with-wow, I also never said I am a fringe believer, again I just different opinion to yours and that doesnt make it fringe, not that i really care.
I also never said I HATE Hawass, again another implication, you've said that alot, thats a very strong word I try not to use about a person, I have used dislike. Your techiniqe when arguing is emotive.....
If I am a a fringe believer-you are a history sheriff bully who doesnt allow freedom of thought.

Anyway anything else to say about Zahi Hawass?

ZF-Yes
*He is a ego maniac-showman and an ass most times. do you agree?
*He has done good things for Egyptian preservation and training etc? Do you agree?

Im actually laughing now, you've been fun, I gotta go to my kids baseball game...Look forward to your reply...Later....Zazz


[edit on 21-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]

[edit on 21-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 09:39 PM
link   
Sorry to other readers here I left this message blank for an hour or two while I handle a domestic disaster caused when my cat launched an attack against my keyboard.



No you said i didnt talk about Hawass which I did, again you made the wrong assumption, Im ok with you thinking I got it wrong, but really you are not OK with difference of opinion If you actually read carefully my posts our opinion are close in parts, and different on.


Hans: You got the racist charge wrong, I pointed it out to you and you’ve come back with gibberish. ZF…earth calling ZF this is a discussion board, we are suppose to debate thing here, not just agree on everything – why don’t understand that concept? I’m quite fine with you having a difference of opinion, that is what discussion boards are for. Why are you on a discussion board – to talk only to people who agree with you? LOL...hey the evil Harte and Kandinsky disagree in part with you too....



And different on whther it is OK to restrict research, are there justifications at times to do so. You said yes, I said no, I am rethinking some of that and will let you know, if I feel I wont be attacked.


Hans: No one is attacking you ZF we are having a discussion, if you really feel you are being attack I recommend you alert the mods, however in this case I think they’d just think you’re playing games, which you are.



But if I toe the party line, all should be OK hey?


Hans: What party line? What a strange comment!



Great debating: I dont agree with your personality dislikes therefore You got it Wrong... thats what my petulant child would say.


Hans: Nope you misquoted me and I corrected you – you were wrong, that is a fairly easy idea to understand isn’t it?




I also never said I HATE Hawass, again another implication, you've said that alot, thats a very strong word I try not to use about a person, I have used dislike.


Hans: Yes that is correct you have not said you hate Hawass, however you have said he is media whore, an ass, beyond corrupt, evil and a grandstanding egomaniac, excuse me for not realizing that those words mean love and respect instead of hate. Ah so you just dislike him them, okay I stand corrected. Dislike it is then.



I also never said I am a fringe believer


Hans: Yes you never did but your opinions are in my opinion fringe, shall I call you a non-mainstream thinker then?



you are a history sheriff bully who doesnt allow freedom of thought.


Hans: LOL, How by disagreeing with you? Again review the concept of a discussion board. So to allow YOU freedom of thought I cannot express my own opinions which differ from yours? How odd!



[edit on 21/2/09 by Hanslune]



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 09:45 PM
link   
I notice you keep calling me racist? Instead of trying to defame me actually show me where I was racist. Personally I think you are playing with a half a deck.

I refuse to keep repeating exactly what I said and you repeating me being racist like a mantra.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 11:15 PM
link   
reply to post by Mynaeris
 


Go back to the post by me at the top of page two, answer those questions, if not I have no intention of dealing with you.

Clear enough?



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 01:17 AM
link   
here we go again. Im not sure how much clearer my position can be? I have put a summary above to try and bring it back from blowing up under the sphynx conversations???? You come back everytime with something. Which is fine, but telling me 'youre wrong, a fringe dweller' isnt.

Hans: You got the racist charge wrong, I pointed it out to you and you’ve come back with gibberish. ZF…earth calling ZF this is a discussion board, we are suppose to debate thing here, not just agree on everything – why don’t understand that concept? _
umm I think your now saying what I have been saying to you since the start? Ive asked you to allow people to debate wihtout belittling them because they differ in opinion to you. I never said you are wrong, nor that you shouldnt post your opinions on Hawass. LOL

rather than gibberish, allow me to quote you :
"Hans: Why? If you are going to pull out the Muslim card be warned. All the Egyptologists I knew were dedicated to science and about 30% were Coptics." I never mentiond muslims or made my debate about race, rather out of nowhere BANG you pulled that as something I said, this clearly isnt debating. I did say you retracted when I corrected you? What is jibberish about that?

I have also had to highlight you misquoting or blatanlty saying Id said something that I didnt several times. But looks like your keeping count, not me.....

Hans: No one is attacking you ZF we are having a discussion, if you really feel you are being attack I recommend you alert the mods, however in this case I think they’d just think you’re playing games, which you are.
-I wouldnt bother? Why do you think I would and would write this? Odd.

As for esteemed friends Harte etc, they have not repeatedly returned to this thread, continously telling me Im 'fringe', or 'full of hate' or blatantly 'you are wrong'They have put their debate forward and very well!
I didnt accuse them of anything? I actually read and respected what they said, and more importantly, how it was said.



Great debating: I dont agree with your personality dislikes therefore You got it Wrong... thats what my petulant child would say.


Hans: Nope you misquoted me and I corrected you – you were wrong, that is a fairly easy idea to understand isn’t it?
- Yes yes you were right, does that make you feel better diddums? Im not sure where I misquoted you? WHne you told me"you are wrong" you were saying it to me about my opinion, not on anything I may/ may not have misquoted.

Perhaps you should consider that my opinion of Hawas is just DIFFERENT to yours, not wrong. But if you feel the need to be right, go a......
Let me be clear:
I am not as you labelled me, 'wrong' about Hawass, I am just different in opinion to you, that doesn't make me wrong. Making that statement in my opinion is in fact limiting debate.





I also never said I am a fringe believer


Hans: Yes you never did but your opinions are in my opinion fringe, shall I call you a non-mainstream thinker then?

-is it so hard to belive that everytime he appears on TV he acts in a way I dont like? Its nothnig to do with fringe? I have a friend who does not know or cares about history but she did say 'god I cant stand this guy' when she saw him on the tv, it took me back and asked her and she said, "surely there is more than 1 archaeologist in all of Egypt?' hence I started the thread. She is neither fringe nor a history buff, rather she can tell a grandstander when she sees one. I haven't had my opinion swayed by fringe, nor does it matter if did, alot of good comes from there.




you are a history sheriff bully who doesnt allow freedom of thought.


Hans: LOL, How by disagreeing with you? Again review the concept of a discussion board. So to allow YOU freedom of thought I cannot express my own opinions which differ from yours? How odd!
_This is wrong AGAIN, I have never said " you cannot express your opinions which differ from mine" quite the opposite, I'm pretty sure i asked you several times to just let people speak and not make them feel amateurish just because they think differently to you. I never asked you not to debate, rather to allow others to.

If you want to debate on Hawass feel free, but I believe you have made your position clear, so what is your motive in continuing to return?.......making you feel better is getting boring.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 11:44 AM
link   
reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Well ZF

You continue to distort and now your seem to just be making stuff up.

Let me try and make this as simple as possible for you.

The phrase, "you are wrong" was used ONLY for your use of a deliberate misquote from you about what I said. You seem to be trying to imply I used that phrase about your opinions, that is incorrect and if you take a Victorian view of it, lying on your part.

Are you now clear about your mistake and misuse of what I said? If not we can go over it again - shall we?

I re-read the thread and you, you poor persecuted guy, seem to have take general comments about fringe personally. You seem to have forgotten that our own beloved prince of fringe, Hollywood, and the fringy and racist comments of Mynaeris were also being made at the same time.

sheesh

Respectfully




top topics



 
4
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join