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Is Dr ZAHI HAWASS EVIL? A new Egpytian Megalomaniac!

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posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 07:35 PM
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Hanslune: Are you Zahi Hawass?


Hans: Afraid not but if I was you might be getting a vist from the Al-Mukhabarat al-'Ammah, LOL



If so aren't you supposed to be somewhere with your TV crew claiming someone else's find?


Hans: He eats publicity for the camera but he doesn’t publish papers claiming these finds



By the way you accused two people within a space of about five posts of being almost "racist", yet never disproved any of the statements they made.


Hans: It would seem you are racist based on your comments below and your attempts to cherry pick data. Here is a question for you. Can an Egyptian earn a western PhD and make discoveries in Egyptology – and publish said results? You seem to be implying they cannot – please explain how that is a rational and not racist statement?



Donkeys and horses have made a number of significant archaelogical discoveries in Egypt.


Hans: Yes they have but the vast majority of finds have been made by Egyptians either as looters prior to westernization or those working with outside expeditions-in the past. Now days they make their own discoveries.



If you could please give me a list of discoveries by Egyptian archaeologists?


Hans: At what point will you pronounce that you are wrong? We establisht the goal posts first. Sooooo you are stating that there are NO discoveries by Egyptian archaeologists? Or is there a number you are claiming? Please specify then we will proceed.



I couldn't find any.


Hans: Either you have very poor research skills or are a racist and didn’t look, again are you stating there are NONE?




posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 07:37 PM
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The Giza Plateau has been officially declared a Military Zone. It is surrounded by a double system of massive wire fence/enclosures, with fortified machine gun posts which incidentally are aimed inward. Security is, shall we say, very tight. Terrorism & theives aside, why else such a plan?


Easily answered. The Giza plateau is now a security zone. To the west is a military post (formerly British by the way) fringe people have mislabeled defenses of that post as being at Giza - not the case.

Due to previous Muslim brotherhood attacks and damage to the site the SCA has but a wall around the site. To control vendors, pests and dragomans plus to allow them to charge tourists entrance fees.

Hey Harte you notice no one blames Hawass' boss?



[edit on 18/2/09 by Hanslune]



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


I agree with you on the Giza situation. I however didn't blame his boss as his boss isn't always in my face. Hawas is the one out there, Im quite sure he's not under duress to be a egomaniac....
Also, I think ATS people will 'fringe dwell' anything. I dont think that should be remarked upon so much, If its serious acedemic study, then there are boards for that, I dont want to scare anyone off learning or reading about Egyptology because they are worried they will appear 'fringe' or uneducated on the subject. Hope you dont mind me saying that



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Howdy ZF



I however didn't blame his boss as his boss isn't always in my face.


Hans: Trivia question, do you know who his boss is? Obviously his action (in what is essentially a dictatorship) must be supported by the political powers there - they seem quite happy with him. My Egyptian friends think very highly of him.



Hawas is the one out there, Im quite sure he's not under duress to be a egomaniac....


Hans: If he was a westerner he would be deemed an alpha male or entrepenurial spirit or man of independent opinion. I would say he IS under duress to gain Egyptian control over Egyptology and their heritage.



Also, I think ATS people will 'fringe dwell' anything.


Hans: Very true, I'm always surprized at the nonsense level at the other forums within ATS and this one occassionally.



I dont think that should be remarked upon so much, If its serious acedemic study, then there are boards for that, I dont want to scare anyone off learning or reading about Egyptology because they are worried they will appear 'fringe' or uneducated on the subject.


Hans: I consider this a catagory II sub-board, serious discussion but for amateurs. HOM (Hall of Ma'at) is a III type for professional level discussion and the IV types are boards for discussion of technical areas (Whether Cypriote pottery assigned to level IVa should be associated with Level IVb, etc). Much of the rest of ATS is level I and often times level O, and even -1 on occassion......0 by the way is meaningless drivel and -1 is dribble.



Hope you dont mind me saying that


Hans: Not at all but I do mind you asking me if I mind!



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 03:39 AM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Don't know who his boss is, but if you have info pertaining to his boss being responsible for his behaviour, please share, I would actually find that discussion quite interesting.


Level 11 or -1, irrelevant, everyone on ATS who is a member can join in a dicussion, fringe or not...well they can join mine, please make them feel welcome or don't comment on their level of training in history-or prehistory-archaelology or anthroplology, we all started somwhere.

Dont care who you know who knows him. Your opinion of him is noted, but mine also stands....He is EVIL mmmmwwwaaauhhhaha
Actually I dont think hes evil so much as comical....



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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i think zowi has done some stupidly courageous things in the past little while.

for example when the public was on his bum to opinionate on whether egyptians were black or not... he gave his opinion standing in front of the oldest funeral mask ever found in egypt [at abydos].

and then he allowed ali blabbakat to go to bosnia.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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IMO, he ain't evil, he is a patriot, he is proud to be Egyptian and no one in the world is going to take that away from him. Did they or didn't they build the pyramids? I don't know, but I get the feeling that even if undeniable proof came that they didn't, he would do all he could to hide it.

EMM



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
 


Howdy EMM

Yep he's sorta "right" wing archaeologists, a nationalist. Would he hide stuff? No I don't believe he would, mainly because he isn't in the trenches and is informed of stuff by his staff. ie the information is not his to control and as noted elsewhere many of the lower level people ARE corrupt and there are many many foreigners involved in the work so the story would get out easily.In releasing the data to the media he'd make sure that everyone knew that evidence for an unknown civilization/aliens or whatever had been found in Egypt.

"They came here to Egypt and our people were those chosen to be gifted with their knowledge" etc. Remember he's a showman and something earth shaking would get him more attention. He would definintely control access to that information but would release it.

Oh and answer a question from above his boss is the Minister of Culture, who seems to agree with what he is doing. As does the president for life Hosni.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


president for life....i think that says it all?

I think he needs to choose to be the secretary general who is a right wing-nationalist promoting and marketing Egypt and protecting antiquities.

or

A research archaeleolist and leave nationilism out of it. I would like to see freedom in research by any person from any country and this does not mean I advocate plundering Egyptian antiquities. He then can show up to digs and make sweeping statements if he oversaw it and worked on it.

If he was in a similar role in Austalia, US or the UK, I m not sure he would be defended so? A very different reaction to him would be met.


Egypt is so special, and its antiquities should be valued and protected by everyone, not just Egyptians. Previously it wasn't, but I belive in many instances things are changed.

Protecting their antiquities is one matter, and in my very 1st post I highlighted this.

But restricting research is another issue that needs to be resolved.

I belive his motive may have been protection, but he is now motivated by fame, wealth and power.







[edit on 19-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]

[edit on 19-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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But restricting research is another issue that needs to be resolved.


So you reject his reasons for restricting research, why?

His reason are:

1. More conserving than discovery
2. Only organizations with strong histories of publishing allowed to do work
3. No work that will damage the structures or areas

Why do you feel these shouldn't be followed?

Most of your dislike seems to be about his personal actions, focus instead on the archaeology.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


I would think that Zahi Hawass would want to spend more time trying to sort out the mess that Cairo calls a museum. Maybe even get a catalogue of the things that are there, and perhaps even locate the for 36 Roman bracelets, discovered in 1905, which have apparently disappeared. Hawass said they were last recorded as part of a exhibition that returned from Japan in 1984.

And perhaps when he finds these bracelets he can return it to Italy? Doesn't he want things to be returned to their country of origin?



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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So glad to see this thread! I have always said this man was an a-hole! You can bet that if Hollywood or New York Networks offered him a tv show he would be living it up in sunny California. It is ALL about money, glory, and or power.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


thats my point, what archaeology?
He pretends its his. His acitons are about the 'glory' that comes with it, whereas archaeology is really the worst most boring labourious work when you are on a dig, Besides who is he to limit discovery, why can't that be combined with preservation?
Thanks Hawass, Im convinced the others are right and its you!
....there's a opening of tomb somewhere you need to take credit for...off you go now, you dont want to miss those cameras!



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


"most of your dislike seems to be about his personal actions, focus instead on the archaeology"
-----------------------------------------

if you are saying you think what he does is archaeology, I will have to assume you havent worked in the field. By wanting us to "keep it about the archaeology" you have just made my point for me

[edit on 19-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Hmmmm try reading about Hawass but not in fringe websites, try also to find out what real Egyptologists think of him. He has been demonized by the fringe - as demonstrated by the hate shown towards him here. There are Egyptologists at the Hall of Ma'at why not go ask them?

If I understand your last amusing comments you are now accusing him of having not done any archaeology. LOL



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:28 AM
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If I understand your last amusing comments you are now accusing him of having not done any archaeology. LOL
--------------------------

no you did not understand me, that is not what I said.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by zazzafrazz


Hey Im not pulling the Muslim card at all? not sure where you got that , I said Egyptians. He is developing and giving priority to Egyptians to work, this is therefore limiting.



Well, I applaud him for doing that. It is their country after all.
Although I think that he is obnoxious and the "stardom" has gone to his head, I gotta hand it to him, he has made a lot of promotion for tourism in Egypt and has made the history and archaeology of Egypt available to the masses via his shows on Discovery/History channels and any of the three major networks whenever there is a "Special".



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 03:44 AM
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Originally posted by Mynaeris

All excavations in Egypt were done and paid for by the west. Any discovery made by egyptians were when their donkeys fell into a hole.

As for the sites in Egypt - all the staff employed by the egyptian government to work at these sites are corrupt and would sell you a tour of anywhere.



Sorry, I can't believe you said (wrote) that. I think it is incredibly offensive.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 04:52 AM
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I read some of the 'fringe' magazines in the early 90s. They had bright covers featuring golden Egyptian antiquities etc. I think it was during the early 90s that the hostility towards Z Hawass took form. Every Western crank and New Age theorist had ideas that conflicted with established theories and data.

I recall a group that wanted to go into the Queen's Chamber and do some form of singing to heighten their vibrations. Others wanted to excavate blocks from parts of the pyramids. The basic assumption of the groups and 'speculative' authors was that should have free reign "Access All Areas" to wherever they wanted to go. Concurrently, they felt entitled to do what they wanted to do when they got here.

There are authors that insist that Khufu's pyramid was built using steel tools and micrometers. Hawass and others are already aware that there aren't blast furnace remains for smelting metal tools. There are no cold chisels and 2lb hammers being found. Moreover there are no compressors, no 12V batteries or micrometers. Why then, would he sanction such a field trip? It would be just another group getting in the way of trained archaeologists.

It's hardly surprising that the rising Hawass declined their requests. It's also understandable that they resent him and withdraw to the default defense of decrying a "cover up!" Hawass behaves like any other person in charge of an important site. He manages it and keeps away the weirdos. Are there any NFL stadiums that would allow a group of people to wander around and wanting to take things away with them? Extreme analogy but the point remains.

For the poster that implies Hawass has stolen the Roman bracelets, I'm inclined to agree with Hans assessment of your politics. Egypt's heritage is scattered and catolgued throughout the world in museums and private collections. It seems a little perverse and ironic to use the 15 Roman bracelets as a criticism of Egypt.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


Howdy Kandinsky

Well exactly, also and something critical from an archaeologlical point of view is that the number of organization doing research and then not publishing the results had increased during the 60's to the 90's, they'd spend x amount of money, not find what they wanted and not publish. Many were organizations searching for evidence of fringe ideas (some mainstream organizations that found nothing new)

You can only drill so many holes, and each modification needs to be strictly and accurately documented. Which is why now only leading organizations that can be held accountable to publish are allowed in.

Yeah ZH is a fringe darling, which is why I was asking about who Hawass's boss is who was his predeccessor etc, no one knows about these people - or his chief of staff/secretary who controls day to day activities.

I often wonder what will happen in two years when he retires-where will all the hate migrate too? LOL...If you ask the fringe they don't have a clue as to who will take over

Mynaeris you have some racist comments to retract before moving on to new issues.



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