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Is Dr ZAHI HAWASS EVIL? A new Egpytian Megalomaniac!

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posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 08:54 PM
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Hawass is the current Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities.
www.cnn.com...

Every time you turn on a TV show about Egypt he is there. Everytime you read an article on Egypt he is being quoted. He is a media wh*re, that's for sure....

Archaeologists cannot do anything in Egypt today without his prying eyes. Any discoveries where there is a camera involved has a shot of him 'leading' the excavation. Giving his opinion as the definitive answer on the find before anyone has a chance to research and assess.

He only got his degree about 16 years ago, and became the BIG WIG in Egypt within 8 years of receiving it???

How can one man be in so many places at once?

I have heard archaeologists literally have to go in and gorilla shoot or dig without him knowing as he will take over and announce what he thinks the find is. He is stopping many finds also from being researched properly and even forbidden some archaeologists from announcing their finds.

He has done a good thing in terms of protecting these antiquities for Egypt, where previously it was plundered and removed. Hawass has instituted a program for the preservation and restoration of antiquities and trained Egyptians to do the work. But whilst getting EGyptians to do it is admirable, it is limited research and limiting scholarly debate.

I cant imagine how much money he is worth, or why he has such a stranglehold over there....anyway, venting really....




posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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He also petitions the egyptian government to give out the death penalty for anyone caught trying to steal, alter, or plant ancient egyptian artifacts, even though he himself was caught doing that in the early 1990s.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by Hollywood11]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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wow I havent heard that yet.
Id love someone to investigate him, he is beyond corrupt.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by Hollywood11
 


Details Hollywood?



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Howdy ZF

That's his job, he is involved in everything. He is also an egocentric type of person amd media hog. I meet him in 82, very much a mover and shaker back even then. Very much at ease with power and dealing with westeners.

Yep he is death on ancient astronauts, afrocentrists and other fringe ideas. Unlike most academics he courts the media and takes unpopular stands. He is STRONG proponent of the 'Egyptians did it' point of view.

Actually from the point of view of archaeology he isn't corrupt and has stopped much of the behind closed door selling of antiquities that went on earlier.

From your message I see you get most of your information on him from fringe sites. Sites not noted for non-bias views! To say the least.

Would you feel better if he stayed in his office?



How can one man be in so many places at once?


He obviously has a twin! No as I understand it he has a good chief of staff and administrative people who free him up from the administrative trivia that keeps must bureaucrats in their offices.

Overbearing, a bit obnoxious but determined to end outside influence and control of the antiquities of Egypt, to protect the sites, to enable more research that is properly done and provide tourist income for the State.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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Zahi Hawass! I could scream just hearing his name. Zahi Hawass has prostituted archaelogy. He has created big business out of archaelogical finds. The most recent example was when the King Tut artifacts were travelling the USA - it was pathetic the way he spoke about Americans always wanting a free ride and it was time they started paying.

All excavations in Egypt were done and paid for by the west. Any discovery made by egyptians were when their donkeys fell into a hole. I spent two weeks in Egypt and saw most of the excavation sites - all the top staff were from American Universities and the excavations were funded by these universities. The only time that Zahi Hawass is visible is when these scientists/archaeologists discovered anything . Then you would see Zahi appear with a TV crew to discuss his new discovery.

As for the sites in Egypt - all the staff employed by the egyptian government to work at these sites are corrupt and would sell you a tour of anywhere.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 10:48 PM
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Zahi Hawass! I could scream just hearing his name. Zahi Hawass has prostituted archaelogy.


Hans: Wow he has? Then I think the entire world has too. You'll note you have to pay to get into many sites all over the world, why not Egypt? Now if you say in some countries it's free - well its not the tax payers pay for it. Again you appear to be someone who has bought the fringe view of Hawass.



He has created big business out of archaelogical finds. The most recent example was when the King Tut artifacts were travelling the USA - it was pathetic the way he spoke about Americans always wanting a free ride and it was time they started paying.


Hans: And what is wrong with that exactly? He is annoying isn't he? But isn't he right?



All excavations in Egypt were done and paid for by the west.


Incorrect, the majority are but not all, many are paid for by the Egyptian government and Gulf Nations, not to mention non western nations like Japan, Taiwan and Korea.



Any discovery made by egyptians were when their donkeys fell into a hole.


Hans: Getting near that slippery slope of racism aren't we? Care to tell me when the first Egyptians were allowed to attend western Universities to learn the skills necessary to become Archaeologists? Would you say the same thing about native americans?



I spent two weeks in Egypt and saw most of the excavation sites - all the top staff were from American Universities and the excavations were funded by these universities.


Hans: Oh my americancentric I see... The majority of Egyptologists are Europeans not Americans. I don't have figures at hand but I'd say the Europe contribute a large share of the funding. Oh and I lived in the Middle east on and off from 1979 and just came back from 15 years there to include six long trips to Egypt - you appear to be an uninformed tourist.



The only time that Zahi Hawass is visible is when these scientists/archaeologists discovered anything .


Hans: That's his job, you ever notice how big wigs always show up at the opening of things, think Presidents, Kings, Queens and CEOs



Then you would see Zahi appear with a TV crew to discuss his new discovery.


Hans: yep he is one self centered media hound



As for the sites in Egypt - all the staff employed by the egyptian government to work at these sites are corrupt and would sell you a tour of anywhere.


Hans: All corrupt? Sorry no I'd say 50-60% at worst. I know I use to bribe them myself. The lower staff yes, the Ph.ds and professional no....which is why HZ is in charge he has decreased that type of activity by a great deal. (AFAIK)



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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Hanslune, I do agree he has protected their antiquities, and that should be applauded.I said that in my OP. I think the push for Egyptians to be trained to work on the anitquities will limit or bias research.

He literally shows up with a crew to a find does the filming like he was there and then leaves.
If its his job to 'open' special events, but to claim finds or research as his own is not good,...

I dont just read fringe sites you cheeky monkey
I have disliked him since I studied archaeology at UNI. though I dont work in the field any more I still like to read as much as I can.

I have seen a archaeologist literally hide her dig from him as she knew he disagreed with her assumption. She release the details to the media without him seeing it first and he basically slammed her, I'll try and find the article on it.

He makes media statements without research and gives his opinion as definative.

As a basic example:
www.robertbauval.co.uk...

Did he really lead the team on this? I doubt it. You cant be a beurocrat and work in the field at the same time, not to mention live in the states 6 months of the year and tour around with Tuts treasures......It appears this way all the time, he shows up takes photos or shoots and then leaves. Someone else does the work.

You are lucky you met him in the 80's my friend, now would be a different matter methinks...though that said I would love to sit and smoke shisha pipe with him in Cairo and ask him many many many questions.....



[edit on 17-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Mynaeris
Any discovery made by egyptians were when their donkeys fell into a hole.


This guy sounds liike a right wannabe celebrity archeologist. Still it is good that he is trying to keep egypts treasures on home soil etc, just a pity he makes research difficult for foriegn archeologists.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:25 PM
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Hanslune, I do agree he has protected their antiquities, and that should be applauded.I said that in my OP.


Hans: We agree



I think the push for Egyptians to be trained to work on the anitquities will limit or bias research.


Hans: Why? If you are going to pull out the Muslim card be warned. All the Egyptologists I knew were dedicated to science and about 30% were Coptics.



He literally shows up with a crew to a find does the filming like he was there and then leaves. If its his job to 'open' special events, but to claim finds or research as his own is not good,...


Hans: We agree again, but again that is how a supervisor acts. At a college I worked at the Sheik use to get up and tell everyone in audience of foreigners what a great job he'd done in educating the students - he of course had never taught a class at all. He provided leadership and direction - just like Hawass.



I have seen a archaeologist literally hide her dig from him as she knew he disagreed with her assumption.


Hans: Considering that would be impossible as his office would issue the certificate to allow her to work there. I think you mean she didn’t go out of her way to involve him in her work



She release the details to the media without him seeing it first and he basically slammed her, I'll try and find the article on it.


Hans: Then she violated the agreement she made with the SCA and Egyptian government. I remember the incident I do believe. If you make a deal you better stick with it.



He makes media statements without research and gives his opinion as definative.


Hans: Kinda like a lot of people – but yes he is a bit of an ass at times




As a basic example:


Hans: Fringe site, find something from Egyptologists’ it will be a bit more balanced. Fringe has to blame someone for the evidence proving their points not showing up, Hawass is an easy target...in a few years he'll retire or die of a heart attack...then who will they blame?



It appears this way all the time, he shows up takes photos or shoots and then leaves. Someone else does the work.


Hans: Ah that is the way many archaeological sites work, remember he can do pretty much what he likes, its his job.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Hey Im not pulling the Muslim card at all? not sure where you got that , I said Egyptians. He is developing and giving priority to Egyptians to work, this is therefore limiting.

Correct, she got a licence, but she had to lie about the theory on what she was looking for or she woudlnt have got auth. and she pushed into a dig further than she had permission under nightfall as he would not allow her to go in...this is really bad practice, surely this cant be defended?

If I had met him, It wouldn't mean I have to like him or go to bat for him? Anyhoo, you think he's ok , I think he's an ass.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 




Hey Im not pulling the Muslim card at all? not sure where you got that , I said Egyptians. He is developing and giving priority to Egyptians to work, this is therefore limiting.


Hans: Must people who lead with that play the Muslim card, I'm so glad you didn't. Most teams (that I'm aware of) are mixed. This use of 'native' Ph.d and staffs has occurred in all other culturally rich areas, Mexico, Peru etc. I see no problem in giving the natives of a country priority in research on the antiquities in their own country.



Correct, she got a licence, but she had to lie about the theory on what she was looking for or she woudlnt have got auth.


Hans: So basically she violated the agreement, lied then she and you are surprized at the reaction??? So what theory was she pursuing that couldn't be placed in the open?



and she pushed into a dig further than she had permission under nightfall as he would not allow her to go in...this is really bad practice, surely this cant be defended?


Hans: I think I'd have to re familarize myself with that specific case, however I would point out. Its there country, there rules and if you deliberately violate the rules expect a response you don't like.



If I had met him, It wouldn't mean I have to like him or go to bat for him? Anyhoo, you think he's ok , I think he's an ass.


Hans: I think he okay for an ass!



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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He only got his degree about 16 years ago, and became the BIG WIG in Egypt within 8 years of receiving it???


His career progression, his boss seems to have picked him out early to take the job.


2002 Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities
1998 - 2002 Undersecretary of the State for the Giza Monuments
1987 - 1997 General Director of the Giza Pyramids & Saqqara & Bahria Oasis
1980 Chief Inspector, Giza Pyramids, Cairo
1974 - 1979 First Inspector of Antiquities, Giza Pyramids, Embaba, and Bahria Oasis
1974 - 1975 Inspector of Antiquities for Boston Museum of Fine Arts at Giza Pyramids
1974 Inspector of Antiquities, Pennsylvania Expedition at Malkata, Luxor
1973 - 1974 Inspector of Antiquities, Abu Simbel
1972 - 1974 Inspector of Antiquities, Embaba, Giza, Cairo
1970 Inspector of Antiquities, the Western Delta at Alexandria
1969 Inspector of Antiquities, The Pennsylvania Yale Expedition at Abydos
1969 Inspector of Antiquities, Edfu-Esna, Egypt
1969 Inspector of Antiquities, Italian Expedition at Sikh Abada, Minia
1969 Inspector of Antiquities of Middle Egypt at Tuna El-Gebel and Mallawi




And in a field where some love digging more than writing, he insists that finds be published within five years. Otherwise, permit-holders lose the right to keep digging. The result – less glamour, more desk work, more expense – has not endeared Hawass to everyone, and his outsized ego makes him an easy target. But experts say that speedy publication expands knowledge and that conservation is a must.



Salima Ikram, a Pakistani-born, Bryn Mawr- and Cambridge-educated professor at the American University in Cairo, has worked with Hawass over the last eight years on a variety of projects. She says he can be dictatorial, egotistical and just plain wrong, and he tends to drive his staff and everyone else mercilessly. But he will listen – really listen – to those strong enough to stand up to him and make a cogent case for an idea or opinion that contradicts his own. He seeks advice, and logic can win him over.


[edit on 17/2/09 by Hanslune]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Yes lets look up the case and reconvene, we both need to, its been about 6 years I think?

Before we get back to , for me, its not that she violated the agreement, its the fact that you cant get a licence to carry out research if he feels its not something he agrees with.
How can any research take place if you are so limited in what you can do or conclude?
So if you lie to enable freedom in research its wrong, but forcing someone to to the party line on a theory isnt? hhmmm I hope your never my boss


[edit on 17-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Howdy ZF

I posted faster than you so there is one post atop of this one. See if you can find that case. I'll look too.

おやすみなさい
oyasuminasai



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


HAha, youve quoted from his own personal site!



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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Hanslune: Are you Zahi Hawass? If so aren't you supposed to be somewhere with your TV crew claiming someone else's find? By the way you accused two people within a space of about five posts of being almost "racist", yet never disproved any of the statements they made. Just keep going on about how it is Zahi Hawass' duty to claim the finds that other governments fund.

Donkeys and horses have made a number of significant archaelogical discoveries in Egypt. A stumbling horse, for example, found a strange underground passage in the Luxor area leading to a ceremonial statue. In the Bahariya Oasis, a donkey found what has become known as "The Valley of the Golden Mummies". a cemetery containing perhaps hundreds (or more) of of gold-gilded burials. Kom es-Shouqafa was discovered by a donkey that had the misfortune of falling into a 15m deep shaft.Kom es-Shouqafa-Catacombs of Alexandria is Really one of the master sites here in Alexandria .The list continues endlessly.

If you could please give me a list of discoveries by Egyptian archaeologists? I couldn't find any. Regarding the free ride by americans regarding King Tut's treasures. If I am not mistaken this was Howard Carter with funding from Lord Canarvon. Hardly seems like anybody but Egypt was having a free ride. Then we can discuss the construction of Aswan Dam - hmmm nope that was the USSR . Which brings us to the rediscovery of Abu Simbel a truly amazing tomb which was discovered by Burkhardt and Belzoni. But when the Aswan dam was being built and the water would flood major archaeological finds, it was the West that put up the money to save and relocate these major findings not Egypt. Abu Simbel was originally located in Sudanese land. And we haven't even discussed Philae yet. Egypt speaking about free rides?


Abu Simbel is an archaeological site comprising two massive rock temples in southern Egypt on the western bank of Lake Nasser. In 1959, an international donation campaign began to save the monuments of Nubia: the southernmost relics of this ancient human civilisation were under threat from the rising waters of the Nile resulting from construction of the Aswan High Dam. Later Abu Simbel temples were moved from Sudanese lands into Egyptian lands. The salvage of the Abu Simbel temples began in 1964, and cost US $80 million. Between 1964 and 1968, the entire site was cut into large blocks, dismantled and reassembled in a new location – 65 m higher and 200 m back from the river, in what many consider one of the greatest feats of archaeological engineering. Today, thousands of tourists visit the temples daily.

Map of Ancient Nubia/Egypt






[edit on 18-2-2009 by Mynaeris]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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Here is where I stand:

1. I am no admirer of Dr. Z. Hawass whatsoever. Although he has gone to extraordinary & special efforts to assure the security of Egyptian sites, he has also blatantly interfered with further scientific explorations of other sites. Namely one; the exploration of recently discovered passageways within Cheops Pyramid, with the use of state of the art, robotic devices. IMHO, Hawass is shielding the world from knowledge that could open up new avenues of thought & research.

2. I personally believe Dr. Hawass has his own Agenda, which he will carry out at all costs, & be damned the rest of the world.

3. I recall some few years ago that he even went so far as to claim that he is the reincarnation of a great Pharaoh. That really flew in the face of his own countrymen & religious doctrine. The bell & whistles sounded off at my house at that point. Egocentric? Megalomaniac? Eccentric? Readers... you decide...

4. The Giza Plateau has been officially declared a Military Zone. It is surrounded by a double system of massive wire fence/enclosures, with fortified machine gun posts which incidentally are aimed inward. Security is, shall we say, very tight. Terrorism & theives aside, why else such a plan?

5. We probably haven't even scratched the surface of what is inside Giza. But the Powers that be, within Hawass' circle must have some clue at least. And there are other areas that are actively very sensitive as well. I think Dr. Hawass knows more about certain issues at hand, & IMO he intends to manipulate other areas, such that all will fit the "peg board" as he thinks it should.

These are my opinions, based upon what I have followed in Egyptian matters since the 1970's.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune


I have seen a archaeologist literally hide her dig from him as she knew he disagreed with her assumption.


Hans: Considering that would be impossible as his office would issue the certificate to allow her to work there. I think you mean she didn’t go out of her way to involve him in her work


I believe the poster is referring to an actual event here, Hans.

Can't recall her name, but Hawass (actually the Council on Antiquities, Hawass doesn't have that kind of power) did eject a female archaeologist for presenting her findings to the media before the COA had a chance to review them.

I don't have a problem with it myself, though. I am aware that one must apply for and recieve a permit (COA calls them a "concession") to investigate and excavate any antiquities in Egypt. Part of obtaining the permit is to agree to the stipulations stated thereon by the COA.

One stipulation is that findings will be presented first to the COA prior to any other outlet.

One may disagree with this stipulation, after all, we are all allowed an opinion. But if you disagree you shouldn't apply for a permit and you certainly shouldn't indicate that you do agree, as this woman did.

She violated her agreement with the COA and paid the price. It's that simple.

Details of this incident are documented hereat ATS somehere in this section. Sometime last year I quoted and linked it.

Harte



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by DREAMING MAN
Here is where I stand:

1. I am no admirer of Dr. Z. Hawass whatsoever. Although he has gone to extraordinary & special efforts to assure the security of Egyptian sites, he has also blatantly interfered with further scientific explorations of other sites. Namely one; the exploration of recently discovered passageways within Cheops Pyramid, with the use of state of the art, robotic devices. IMHO, Hawass is shielding the world from knowledge that could open up new avenues of thought & research.


I'm not his greatest fan myself. I dislike having anyone be talked down in any arena where he cannot respond, so I chime in every now and then about him to point out that most of what you find about Hawass on the internet was put there precisely for the reason Hans already stated. Fringers have to have someone to blame for the fact that nobody can prove the pyramids were built by aliens (or whatever kooked-out notion passes for ideas in their heads on any given day.)

For example, the above claim that Hawass interfered in the investigation of the shaft that was conducted by Gatenbrink is simply not the case.

Gatenbrink was operating on a permit issued to the German Museum of Cairo. When his permit ran out, the German Museum did not ask or apply for a renewal. Nobody I've read has ever even bothered to look into why this might be, they always simply state that Hawass wouldn't let Gatenbrink continue and they end the story there.

If you reall insist on making this claim, you'll need to check with the German Museum to see why they never re-applied and why Gatenbrink is no longer associated with them.

Then you'll also need to explain why, if Hawass was so set in nobody exploring this shaft, was the shaft recently explored and published about by a group of Japanese scientists that obtained a permit from the Antiquities council for that very purpose?


Originally posted by DREAMING MAN3. I recall some few years ago that he even went so far as to claim that he is the reincarnation of a great Pharaoh. That really flew in the face of his own countrymen & religious doctrine. The bell & whistles sounded off at my house at that point. Egocentric? Megalomaniac? Eccentric? Readers... you decide...


How about all of the above?



Originally posted by DREAMING MAN4. The Giza Plateau has been officially declared a Military Zone. It is surrounded by a double system of massive wire fence/enclosures, with fortified machine gun posts which incidentally are aimed inward. Security is, shall we say, very tight. Terrorism & theives aside, why else such a plan?

Load of crap

Harte



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