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GM Asks For $30 Billion in Aid - 47,000 Jobs to be Eliminated!!

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posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Why wouldn't the Union agree to give up more of their members benefits such as a cut in pay to help keep a percentage of the lost jobs? I have been told that the average GM employee including all benefits makes $157.00 per hour.

Gm and Chrysler are faced with a do or die situation when it comes to cuts. Who do you blame for what is happening? First of all I believe it was GM who sold Chevron the battery technology that would of propelled an average car 300 miles on one charge. Have you seen Chevron bring out this battery technology to the public of course not?

So here we go again the $Billions of dollars to keep the auto industry afloat
is dropped right back in the laps of We The People to foot the bill. Poor management is the answer the auto industry knew what was coming in the back rooms. You say no one could of predicted what was coming with the economy and I say bunk you do not pay executives millions of dollars to play dumb especially when gasoline was up around $4.00 a gal.

The decline in auto sales did not happen in 1 month or even 1 day again the heads of the auto industries could of changed the power plants to drive the automobile especially with all the technologies available this World has to offer. Come on folks we all know we are using basic antiquated combustion technology developed in late 1800s. Hybrid cars are a joke in my opinion go all electric and forget the gasoline. Who is the auto industry keeping happy the oil companies? Wouldn't it be nice to actually consider pleasing the consumer that drives the machine that would of created massive sales?

If Tesla Corporation can build an electric car that has the performance of a high performance gasoline driven car why can't the rest of the auto companies? Yes I know it costs $100,000 to purchase a Tesla vehicle but the Majors in the auto industry had the money a few years back to build a competively priced electric car without gasoline and do not let them tell you any different.

The mentality of our country is soon becoming if we fail Big Brother will bail us out so where does it end? It doesn't as long as We The People are sold on the idea that Big Brother will take care of all our wants and needs. So where is the incentive to do anything right and to stay a productive society?


[edit on 18-2-2009 by amari]




posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by amari
Why wouldn't the Union agree to give up more of their members benefits such as a cut in pay to help keep a percentage of the lost jobs? I have been told that the average GM employee including all benefits makes $157.00 per hour.


You have to be kidding me. I grew up in Lansing my father was a GM employee and my brother was also. They make a comfortable wage but it only topped out at about $20.00 per hour the benefits are not as great as you think either. The total with benefits works out to be the same as the Japanese auto workers about $40-50.00 bucks per hour.

The executives are who suck that company dry.

The advantage Japan has is because they do not support the biggest offensive military in the world and because of this the Japanese government subsidizes the research and development of those automakers.

Ignorance? Deny it baby!



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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I think the major issue in this very sad story is the following one:

the US car industry played their own cards based on the totally false assumption that US citizen could keep on affording expensive, low productivity vehicles by heavily relying on credit services.

All this stopped dead when it appeared that the US citizen were so endebted that they could only afford keeping their current car ( if paid) or start using bikes to go to work. that s called hitting the wall of reality ( at 150 mph).

The immediate consequence is that the car industry is crushed between defaulting clients AND defaulting credit institutions.

I think the top management has a heavy responsibility in this. How could they ignore the basics trends of the economy?
Worse: were they hoping that a miracle could come out of the blue and save them from the volcano they were sitting on?

These people should loose EVERYTHING and IMMEDIATELY. Start at the lowest ladder in the society. just to learn the basic truth:

DON T EVER SPEND MORE THAN YOU HAVE.

period



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by BlackOps719


The only reason they are even floating above water right now is due to the $16 Billion they were already given by our generous governmental stimulus happy morons.

Eventually you just have to take a lame horse out back and shoot it.

[edit on 2/17/09 by BlackOps719]


And do you understand what would happen if GM and Chrysler would be allowed to go under? 47,000 jobs now...if they went under, we're talking MILLIONS of jobs and most likely push the country into a depression.

I really don't understand why so many people are trying to punish the car companies when in reality, the bush administration, financial institutions and oil industry created this problem.

Nobody can get credit to buy cars. How is that the car companies fault?



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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While against any further financial assistance to the auto makers period, the buck MUST stop with the jobs.

If cutting jobs is part of your plan, you get squat. The entire premise behind "saving" the companies is to save the jobs. No way should they get money, AND cut jobs. That amounts to a 16.6 billion dollar "stimulus" to executive level bank accounts, nothing more.

GM, F*@k you! I don't give a crap how thorough and detailed your plan for saving your company is if it doesn't benefit the economy, and this country as a whole.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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Whats the big deal, it's only $30,000,000,000.00.

That's not a lot of money or anything.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan

The advantage Japan has is because they do not support the biggest offensive military in the world and because of this the Japanese government subsidizes the research and development of those automakers.

Ignorance? Deny it baby!
Japan spends 0.8% of it's GDP on Military, the U.S. spends 4.06% of GDP on military which includes defense of Japan. Ref: www.cia.gov...

GM was a defense contractor, but sold off GM Defense to General Dynamics in 2003. That would've helped them today. However these companies still sell vehicles to Military, federal, state and local governments. If the government bought a few fleets, that would help out the automakers.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
If the automakers would quit sitting on the advanced technology and build vehicles that dont run on fossil fuel, and make them affordable, that would revive them almost instantly.

No one is going to buy vehicles that use a commodity that is unstable for its fuel plus pay 40 grand for a vehicle that is 90 percent forign parts and 10 percent American label.


Cheers!!!!


Exactly.

Electrical, hydrogen, and ionic pulse. Three different sources of power. All being clean, safe, and Green. Don't forget about solar energy. Solar panels can be built around the body of the car/suv/truck/motorcycle for additional power, performance and battery life. If this happens then billions of people will buy, millions of jobs will become available and billions of dollars will be made.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Red Shield

Originally posted by RFBurns
If the automakers would quit sitting on the advanced technology and build vehicles that dont run on fossil fuel, and make them affordable, that would revive them almost instantly.

No one is going to buy vehicles that use a commodity that is unstable for its fuel plus pay 40 grand for a vehicle that is 90 percent forign parts and 10 percent American label.


Cheers!!!!


Exactly.

Electrical, hydrogen, and ionic pulse. Three different sources of power. All being clean, safe, and Green. Don't forget about solar energy. Solar panels can be built around the body of the car/suv/truck/motorcycle for additional power, performance and battery life. If this happens then billions of people will buy, millions of jobs will become available and billions of dollars will be made.



I have a hard time dealing with the auto industry knowing what I know. Their 'analysis of consumer needs' is enough to make me puke.

I hold no disdain for any autoworkers themselves who are all unfortunate, victims of a patsy sham industry.

The auto industry in no way shape or form has free creative control. They are the absolute leaders in brown-nose "do what I'm told" manipulation. There couldn't be a better example of how one industry completely dominates and dictates the reality of the situation more than the energy industry over the auto industry.

It is so important to stress how the auto industry is absolutely nothing compared to the energy industry.

A good analogy would be; the energy industry is the US military and the auto industry is a foot soldier in Iraq. Do you think that foot soldier has any input as to how the war in Iraq should be fought? Actually, that analogy may not even be extreme enough. But that's the important fact. The auto industry is dandruff off the head of the energy industry.

Until someone does something with our (now) age old knowledge of alternative energies (highjacked and suppressed), I have nothing but disgust for this industry. (Not it's unfortunate workforce!)



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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Can someone please explain this to me?

GM is laying off 47,000 people and shuttering 5 factories.

Yet they need 30 BILLION dollars.

Why? What kind of company has a restructuring plan that means less workers, less factories but costs more money? Can someone explain the GM New Math to me?



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Unit541
While against any further financial assistance to the auto makers period, the buck MUST stop with the jobs.

If cutting jobs is part of your plan, you get squat. The entire premise behind "saving" the companies is to save the jobs. No way should they get money, AND cut jobs. That amounts to a 16.6 billion dollar "stimulus" to executive level bank accounts, nothing more.

The irony is that the government is forcing them to cut jobs to
get the money.
They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Get rid of a thousands of jobs or millions.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by BlackOps719


The only reason they are even floating above water right now is due to the $16 Billion they were already given by our generous governmental stimulus happy morons.

Eventually you just have to take a lame horse out back and shoot it.

[edit on 2/17/09 by BlackOps719]


And do you understand what would happen if GM and Chrysler would be allowed to go under? 47,000 jobs now...if they went under, we're talking MILLIONS of jobs and most likely push the country into a depression.

I really don't understand why so many people are trying to punish the car companies when in reality, the bush administration, financial institutions and oil industry created this problem.

Nobody can get credit to buy cars. How is that the car companies fault?




I understand and agree, they should be saved in any way possible. They are too important to the American backbone and infrastructure to be allowed to go under.

What I am saying that there has got to be a point when you must rething strategy. Funneling tax payer money into a private corporation for short term help for a long term problem is insanity. It isnt fixing anything, it is just pooring money down the drain.

I dont know what it will take to fix our economy or the ailing auto giants, but throwing endless amounts of money onto a burning fire isnt helping anyone.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by StrangeBrew
 


"The auto industry is dandruff off the head of the energy industry. "

Good one. You're absolutely right.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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So?

IBM posts record profits...lays off 20,000 but says they have jobs if they want them...in India

WalMart profits...lays off however many and hire as many at cheaper rates as people get more desparate.

Microsoft lays off and send more work to India.

GM takes bailout bucks and gets greedy....


You all expect this to be somehow logical? Or to the benefit of whom?

Nothing is about what it seems to be about. They're out to screw us for every penny and leave us to the wolves. And we sit by in high anxiety mode "praying" that this fixes things...looking to "them" to rescue us? Allowing them to filch our last penny.

Bwahaha.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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Personally I say, if you want the American taxpayers to save you from bankruptcy, those 47,000 jobs better be coming from plants abroad and not from any plants within the United States.

However, we all know full well how this game is played. The taxpayers will foot the bill and the American people will get bent over. This situation is so cliche now that it has become the expected norm. Pitiful that we allowed our great republic to wind up like this.

You can call me names, slander me or whatever you wish, but I am here to tell you this is all our own fault. We allowed this to happen by silent approval. So long as we had a home, two nice cars and enough money to take the kids to Disney once a year we were blissful in our own ignorance.

Now the crap has hit the fan and suddenly the people are saying "hey your doing us wrong." No kidding? What planet were they living on for the last 40 years?

We treated our government just like a spoiled little child with no supervision, are we surprised when they made a mess in the other room?

Thomas Jefferson said "When the people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

We have ignored our responsibility as American citizens to hold our government accountable, now we are reaping the fruits borne of that irresponsibility.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by The Anti-Federalist
 


i just said almost this same thing in the topic about should the federal government assist people who lose their jobs due to outsourcing. hmmm.

can you believe IBM though? sure you have a job...just move to India! For a third the pay! and people are going to bend over and take that too and continue to buy their products. ho hum.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by The Anti-Federalist
 


i just said almost this same thing in the topic about should the federal government assist people who lose their jobs due to outsourcing. hmmm.

can you believe IBM though? sure you have a job...just move to India! For a third the pay! and people are going to bend over and take that too and continue to buy their products. ho hum.


just move to India for a third the pay: I think people were agreeing to such terms as long as their family or personal lives were not too impacted. Meaning moving to another town, or to another state, or why not Canada, Ireland, UK, etc. Globalization and improvements made by emerging countries have erased the boundaries. An Indian guy can bring as much added value into a car than any american citizen for a third of the cost. How to fight this?

The only reason why we don t like those new terms is that it means loosing your cultural environment and cultural suppremacy.
Resisting this trend is like trying to build a sandbag wall against a tsunami.

It s wiser to develop added value potential in the US. This demands better industry, better R&D, better education, and more long term oriented management.
THe EU is in the same situation.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Well, now we wait for March 31st. I'm hoping GM falls for good. Sold me a 2008 sierra truck with rust coming out of the entire body only after 5 days, along with no rebate and no help with repairing the rust spots.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 05:50 PM
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Well it's almost official. GM paper is now officially worth almost nothing, the best high dollar butt wipe anyone can find.


Have a gander... hot off of the press today -

GM shares hit 74 year low





NEW YORK – General Motors Corp. shares on Friday tumbled to their lowest level in more than 70 years, pulled down by a drop in the broader markets and continued speculation about the future of the struggling automaker.

GM shares hit a low of $1.52 in early afternoon trading, before rebounding somewhat to close down 23 cents, or 11.5 percent, at $1.77. The low matched a record set on July 26, 1934, according to the Center for Research in Security Prices at the University of Chicago.

The price is adjusted for splits and other changes.

The Detroit-based automaker's shares have been battered over the past year by worries about the viability of the U.S. auto industry and plunging sales stemming from the industrywide drop in demand for new vehicles.

GM shares were worth $3.50 just a month ago and $25.54 a year ago.

On Tuesday, GM said it would need a total of $30 billion in federal aid in order to avoid filing for bankruptcy protection, up from a previous estimate of $18 billion and including $13.4 billion it has already received. It also said it would need to cut 47,000 jobs worldwide and close five more U.S. factories.





It's like living in a bad Twilight Zone episode, like watching the whole world burn before our very eyes. Can't say nobody ever warned us or said it would happen.

This is big folks...HUGE even. We may just lose GM, Citi and Bank of America all with the same month to two month span. See you all in the soup lines. I call dibs on the 12 day old moldy bread.

Unbelievable.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by Red Shield
 



Electrical, hydrogen, and ionic pulse. Three different sources of power. All being clean, safe, and Green. Don't forget about solar energy. Solar panels can be built around the body of the car/suv/truck/motorcycle for additional power, performance and battery life. If this happens then billions of people will buy, millions of jobs will become available and billions of dollars will be made.


Good points, except about a decade too late! Who is going to be left to buy these cars? How can billions buy cars when they are losing their homes???



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