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TA-THREATS: New bin Laden Tape Aired Offering Truce With European Countries

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posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by TrickmastertricK

Where is the proof that it did happen. Instead of asking for everyone elses proof, come with your own to debunk it. I have not seen either of you try to.

There are countless Theories abound on these events, then there is the truth, which no one will ever know.

[Edited on 15-4-2004 by TrickmastertricK]


I have never claimed to know the truth. I do have my doubts about what may and may not have happened.

But I admit that I do not know the truth. I am not making claims either way on the issue. But when somebody comes outta left field with a story that pretty much contradicts every fact we think we know, and doesn't provide a shred of supprot for it, I become extremely skeptical. What good is rejecting the Offical Lie just for another one?




posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by TrickmastertricK

Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by Facefirst

And no proof! What a surprise! There is nothing to back up that geocities paranoid bogeyman site.


I haven't even asked for proof. I asked for a single piece of semi-reliable evidence, and they failed to produce even that.

Where is the proof that it did happen. Instead of asking for everyone elses proof, come with your own to debunk it. I have not seen either of you try to.

There are countless Theories abound on these events, then there is the truth, which no one will ever know.

[Edited on 15-4-2004 by TrickmastertricK]


First of all, i was not addresing you.....

Secondly, none of you have addressed my questions other than stupid bunk quotes taken out of context. Can you guys answer questions? Apparently not. (pls review my posts!)

paranoid-scared of your own shadow-wannabe 007-waco-ruby- responses are not welcome.



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by J0HNSmith
[
Not that I like to repeat myself but maybe I just wasn't clear.

"Divide and conquer" seems to be the strategy.


You were clear & so was he if it is him. You got to hand it to the guy, what a great strategy.

Great conspiracy's guys, but a little off the topic here. How about starting a new thread for those of you who insist on battling off topic. Thanks.



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
You need to provide a link to your above quoting vista. Please properly cite or reference your sources.


Seekerrof here is the reference with links


Is good 'ol bin still alive? Who knows, but as long as he isn't caught he still is a US Intelligence Asset -- just cry the name Osama (as Bush did the other night) and blame him for all the evil in the world.

If they do capture him, just like the Saddam capture it will be a PSYOPS operation (the Kurds caught him weeks before, they drugged and left him for the Americans) . Bush will milk it for all it's worth.

Wag the Osama

"As I have written before, I believe that bin Laden was killed in late 2001, by the concerted, massive attacks in the vicinity of Bora Bora, Afhanistan. Global news reports quoted the FBI, the Pentagon, and the military head of Pakistan, General Musharraf, separately as saying that he was killed, either directly in the bombing attacks, or indirectly by being kept from essential life-support for kidney disease.

The last known video of bin Laden showed a pale, gaunt, feeble man with an immobile left arm. He has not been seen or heard since, in any videotape or audiotape whose date and content were both attested by independent experts.

Unfortunately, those saying "we got him" were frowned down by the White House. Perhaps Team Bush didn't want the Afghanistan "war" over too quickly, or preferred to avoid questions about why they didn't compel the Taliban to hand him over, or wanted OBL as a shadow opponent in what another writer has aptly termed "Cold War II."

If this seems far-fetched, it should not. The sad and sorry buildup to invading Iraq indicates that many in corporate media outlets would take a "bin Laden tape" at face value, even if they turned it over and it had "From the desk of Paul Wolfowitz" stamped on the back."

www.onlinejournal.com...



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 07:10 AM
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Well, I actually spoke to Deanna Burnett TWICE about her cell phone conversations with her husband Tom who was the guy who supposedly said "Let's roll" before they attacked the "terrorists" and supposedly brought FL 93 down.

Personally I do believe that she spoke to him, or at least to something that sounded exactly like him. To me, that is the fly in Donn de GrandPre's "no terrorist/global hawk" ointment...no question about it.

Still, the rest of his theory is FAR MORE PLAUSIBLE THAN THE OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT COVER STORY.

The governmetn would have you believe that a terrorist cell operating out of caves in Afghanistan had the wherewithal to pull off these incredibly complex attacks. They would have you beleive that Arabs whose instructors uniformly claim were poor flight-training students (in most cases unable to handle Cessnas) flew these complex jumbo jets with extreme precision that morning, exceeding the avionics limits and over-riding (somehow) the computer limits on g-forces, etc, and made 3-3 hits exactly as planned. The Pentagon attack was especially difficult for even a crack fighter pilot to have pulled off. The government would have you believe that Osama bought up all the tickets on all four flights and that 75% of the passengers did not show up--though we've never heard of any of our whore media examining why these routinely over-booked flights were only at 25% passenger capacity that morning. We must beleive that Atta, etc. were extreme fundamentalist Muslims (when in fact they were knonw to be moderates. (Atta and Alomari were at a strip bar on Friday night before the attacks in Florida...something no fundamentalist would ever do. I spoke by phone to Ziad Jarrah's father and uncle in Lebanon, and they swear he was totally apolitical--and Druze, not fundamentalist.) The government would have you believe that Osama was able to pay-off the entire emergecny staff at the FAA, and the Air traffic controllers, and the Pentagon brass who would have sent interceptors if the government fiction were true.

Get a grip FaceFirst and Esoerica...no way I'm buying that crap... You can if you want to, but don't try to shove it down the throats of those of us who think and read still.

Now, about those cell phone conversations. The CIA has the technology to fake them. I'm not saying they did, but it is possible. It always struck me as curious that with the high "terrorist"/passenger ratios on all these flights that the terrorists would all have been so destracted not to have known (and permitted) passengers to be making cell phone calls...very odd. Also, even Deanna, when prompted, agred with me that it was odd that her hsuband never mentioned anything about the language, nationality or appearance of the hijackers...and we only ever have heard that there were "Arab accents" on the flight recorders-- after months of them being in the sole possession of the government--plenty of doctoring time.

Now it is possible that cell phone calls were made from planes that were later grounded elsewhere (or ditched in the ocean) and that militarily-rigged aircraft painted with civilian colors did the real striking. I will not say for sure what was the real story behind these cell phone calls, but it is (IMO) the pivotal point in this whole discussion and I would appreciate like-minded patriots here giving it some thought and investigating any angle on this that might help get to the truth.

I will post a new thread on cell phones--please go there if you want to engage in this discussion further.



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 08:04 AM
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We must not forget Operation Northwoods: Manufacturing an Enemy

Operation Northwoods under which in 1962, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff put forth a proposal to secure American public support for a war on Cuba - "desirable to use legitimate provocation as the basis for military intervention."

Option 3 A.a: We could blow up a US ship in Guantanama Bay and blame Cuba.

Option 8: It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute to the United States...

a: An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to the CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.

b: Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio station in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.

Option 9 b: On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly tail-end Charley at considerable interval between aircraft. While near the Cuban Island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. No other calls would be made. The pilot would then fly directly west at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who had performed the mission under an alias, would resume this proper identity and return to his normal place of business. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared.

View the Northwoods document: www.gwu.edu...



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 09:17 AM
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Exactly!!!! Great reminder. What may have been turned down as too radical in the early 1960s, may very well have been given the green light 40 years later. The whole point about Operation Northwoods is that the government had the evil capacity to concoct such a scheme (let alone carry it out) forty years ago, and take out a President too seveal months later, under similar cover stories. Why do so many have such a hard time believing that they may have gotten that much more evil over the intervening 40 years--evil enough, let's say--to carry out 911 and all the cover story apparatus needed to go along with it??



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by mepatriot
Personally I do believe that she spoke to him, or at least to something that sounded exactly like him.


Did you tell her to her face that you believe her husband wasn't really on that plane? I don't think so. I'm sure that they planted his body and personal belongings in the wreckage......

*soothing voice* "Don't be upset with Al-Qaeda, your goverment killed your husband...."

Where is Barbara Olson?

Deny idiocy.




[Edited on 16-4-2004 by Facefirst]



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 12:52 PM
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FF: More personal attacks, 0 rebuttal of facts, 0 new evidence...= 0 contribution to the discussion.

Are you a government employee?



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 01:59 PM
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Unless Attacked
Franklin Delano Roosevelt deliberately provoked the Japanese into attacking us at Pearl Harbour. Why? As of 1940, he wanted us in the war against Hitler, but 80 percent of the American people wanted no European war of any kind after the disappointments of 1917. He could do nothing to budge an isolationist electorate.

Secretly, FDR began a series of provocations to goad the Japanese into what turned out to be an attack on our fleet at Pearl Harbour, thus making inevitable our prompt, wholehearted entry into the Second World War.

We had broken Japans diplomatic code, Purple, but by early October 1940, we had also broken many of the Japanese Military codes, specifically: the twenty-nine separate naval codes.

On Saturday, November 15,1941 General Marshall, the U.S. Army Chief of Staff, told Washington newspaper bureau chiefs (swearing them to secrecy) that we had broken Japans naval codes, and that war with Japan would start sometimes during the first ten days of December.

In November 1940, FDR had been elected to a third term with the pledge that none of Americas sons would ever fight in a foreign war "unless attacked." Privately, more than once, he had said to others that the Japs must strike the first blow.

Deception

Barrie Zwicker: "A potent version is the fake act, for instance a bombing which the perpetrators make appear to be carried out by others. The gold standard of these is the election-stealing or war-triggering fake event, especially one involving 'foreign terrorists'. This makes pivotal the parallel between the Reichstag fire of 1933, on the one hand, and the events of 9/11, on the other. '...beyond reasonable doubt it was the Nazis who planned the arson and carried it out for the own political ends.'

The parallel with the events of 9/11 is stunning.

The official narrative, introduced with Goering-like speed, emerged within two hours: the "attack on America" was portrayed as the work of 'terrorists,' namely one evil man, Osama bin Laden, and a small group of co-conspirators - the 2001 equivalents of Hitlers communists."


"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

Hermann Goering, Riech Marshall, Germany, Nuremberg Trials

The Enabling Act:

Following a fire at the 1933 Reichstag building (German parliament), which the Nazis blamed on a communist conspiracy to overthrow the government, Hitler persuaded von Hindenburg to issue an emergency "Decree for the Protection of Volk and State." (the model for the US PATRIOT Act I and II). It suspended the basic rights of German citizens, allowed the national government to take over full powers in the German state governments, and ordered death or imprisonment for a series of crimes. These included incitement to riot and resistance to the provisions of the decree.

The decree, by suspending the legal right to personal freedom, opened the way for German police to use a device called "protective custody". This enabled police to arrest and imprison suspects deemed a "threat to the state" for any length of time without trial. The government initiated a campaign to first muzzle and then destroy the opposition press.

On March 23, Hitler combined threats of terror by his party with political promises to persuade the new Reichstag to approve a new law, the so-called Enabling Act. The law allowed the government to rule without constitutional forms and limitation for the next four years. This frightful surrender of the Reichstag to Hitler made him dictator of Germany, free from any real control by the parliament. This would be renewed in 1937, until Hitler declared it perpetual in 1943.



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 02:05 PM
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Vista,

Phew!! I was beginning to feel like an island in here today. I've been doing nothing but fending off the pointless attacks of people who admit they've done little or no research into 9/11, but just "know" that mine was done poorly.

Yes, 9/11 was Pearl Harbor II, just like Richard Perle (funny coincidence, huh...Pearl/Perle) told us we would need in order to take the next steps in implementing their global police state.

Good post.



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by mepatriot
Well, I actually spoke to Deanna Burnett TWICE about her cell phone conversations with her husband Tom who was the guy who supposedly said "Let's roll" before they attacked the "terrorists" and supposedly brought FL 93 down.


Bull #.

That was Todd Beamer who said "Let's roll!"

CNN Transcript of interview

Now either the former Mrs. Burnett had a lapse of memory twice, or you are lying through your teeth.



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 02:18 PM
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Not according to Deanna Burnett....did you interview Beamer's family, or are you just taking the government's word again????



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 02:18 PM
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mepatriot, you're right... with a little homework...

False Flag terrorism: have terrorist attacks carried out in order to strike fear in the population, on the one hand, and to create a "public enemy" on the other. This creates a "circle up the wagons" sentiment in the population, which the government can exploit to win acceptance for restrictions of civil rights. The population hopes these restrictions will bring a bit more personal security.

The boogey man created by the government's terrorism can at any time be pulled out and dangled, whenever the government wants more concessions or the citizens try to get those lost rights back again. (One need only count the number of times the terror alert color codes have gone up in the US.)

An example is the case of the "Palestinian" attack on the cruise ship Achille Lauro in 1985. That was in fact, an Israeli "black" propaganda operation to show what a deadly, cutthroat bunch the Palestinians were.

President McKinley blew of the USS Maine in Havana? harbour and used this as provocation for the Spanish/American war.

In 1964 there was the Gulf of Tonkin Incident - Vietnam.

This sort of deception is basic political/military strategy and goes back to the time of Rome.

To repeat Chaim Kupferberg: "Many of the more popular theories concerning September 11 rest on a selective reading of the facts. In other words, they focus on certain elements of the story - failing, in the end, to account for a wide-ranging number of facts and anomalies that cannot be adequately accounted for by such theories. As one prime example, the complacency theory for 9/11 only works so long as one studiously and consistently ignores the compelling circumstantial evidence for all the various well-timed coincidences that stubbornly recur in practically every rudimentary recitation of the facts."



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 02:25 PM
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Right Vista...I have two 2-hour videotapes just packed full of "unexpalined coincidences and unanswered questions" regarding 9-11 that I produced over a three month period in Oct '01- Jan '02.

Just one for the moment:

Why do we have detailed lists of the dead and missing for the occupants of every floor of the Twin Towers from the impact points up, but not one person listed as dead or missing from CNN Headquarters which was located on the 100th floor of the North Tower....NOT ONE !!! They leased nearly the entire 110th floor, and yet not one of their employees died?? Did that all decide not to show up that day, or what??



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by mepatriot
FF: More personal attacks, 0 rebuttal of facts, 0 new evidence...= 0 contribution to the discussion.

Are you a government employee?


Megaparanoid:
Contribution of actual hard data O
Backing up of claims O


Only choosing the information that supports your opinion: priceless


..



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 02:33 PM
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FF: Conveniently forgot to mention whether or not you are a government employee?? You responded (amateurishly, per usual) to everything else in my post but that. Hmmm...



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by mepatriot
Not according to Deanna Burnett....did you interview Beamer's family, or are you just taking the government's word again????


No, I have not interviewed Beamer's family. Just as I do not believe you have interviewed Burnett's.

From the CNN transcript:

BEAMER: And the last thing the operator heard Todd say at 10:00 a.m. -- 15 minutes into the call was, "Are you ready? Let's roll."

Right there is an interview where Beamer states her husband said "Let's roll!" Show me a transcript of an interview where Burnett refutes this.

Todd M. Beamer Foundation


If Beamer had not said it, you think his family would say something about an organization beign named after him.

So either you're lying, or you have some mental issue where you actually believe celebrities contact you and trust you with valuable information that can shake the world.



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 02:45 PM
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I CERTAINLY HOPE nobody is trying to SELL two 2-hour video tapes to anyone on ATS in this thread.

Everyone needs to pay close attention to the following points:
1. The personal insults STOP NOW.
2. You MUST cite all your sources when quoting or copy-pasting information.

This is at least the second warning in this thread. I won't be making another post like this.

-B.



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 03:01 PM
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Moderator: Where did I say anything about selling video tapes?? I said they could e-mail me and I'd send them one. Relax. You want one too??

Yes, I did interview Deanna Burnett twice...it's confirmed in the tapes. E-mail me if you want one.

She did not specifically refute this "Let's roll" nonsense, but she did lead me to believe that HER husband LED THE MOVE against "the terrorists" not anyone else.



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