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A Question of Time

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posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by zazzafrazz

Simple theory being most likely right, just means:
'It makes my head hurt...I don't want to think about it too much!!'

Cmon IRM!



LOL! I like your view of Occam's Razor. I nearly spat my OJ all over my monitor. However, I succeeded in holding back the deluge but my white T-Shirt now has orange streaks
. I guess I was only half successful!

I do still hold the opinion however that some 'science' may be over-thought and the possibility remains of a simpler answer.

IRM




posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by constantwonder
 


Sounds interesting CW!

How long does the vid run for? I only ask because I'm stuck on a draconian 56k dial-up
*sniff*

IRM



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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its about an hour in duration but worth the watch if you can stand to wait a lil for the streaming
It is quite fascinating. Physics makes me salivate lol i could talk about things like this all day



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by constantwonder
 


Bummer, a bit too long for my connection


Hey, feel free to talk all day! I find it fascinating too. Give it your best shot


Heheh!

IRM



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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Good thread IRM.

I agree with some other posters that time is a construct of the human mind.

I would also elaborate and say that not only is it a human construct, but we can control it; albeit subconsciously.

We switch time off every night when we go to sleep. It doesn't exist for us when we are asleep. We don't have any recollection (aside from lucid dreams, but that's food for another thread) of our journey through the night, so in effect time has stopped.

Another example is when we are doing something excruciatingly boring, like filling out a tax return; time drags out, and it takes forever. Yet, when we experience a sublime moment in our life, such as reading a fantastic book, whilst suspended in a hammock by the sea; time seems to become irrelevant!

I think because time is so malleable for us, it shows that it is an artificial experience created by our consciousness.

But, then again, I could be full of it!



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:02 AM
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where to start lol. . . . It really all depends on which model of physics you subsribe to. If einstein had it right then all of space exists right now which means all of time also exsists now and we merely see a 3 dimensional cross section of our four dimensional life. In other words you exisist at this moment at the moment of your birth, the moment of your death and at every single point inbetween.

I find this interpritation troubling because it takes us back to the newtonian world where everything is pre-determined. . . no free will we just coast along a pre set path through time and space.

This is where it gets interesting. . . in quantum physics depending on which theory turns out to be correct time could be interperated in a couple of ways. . . one way is the branching river where decisions made by you chance and the actions of others causes time to branch every quantum fluctuation creates an entirely new timeline so you can exsist in multiple states on multiple time lines simultaneously.

Again this is troubling to me because doesnt that mean i may not be the whole of me which timeline is me is your essence the same in each timeline. . . what if the timelines cross what if i die in one do i live on in another?

Which brings us to my favorite theory on how time works. . . Which is the one described in the video and is popular amongst the string/m-theory camp. It says that time grows out from the past into the future. . . Time and space are granular and as new time and space piles up on top of the new we experience the progression of time. . . To me this is the most comforting theory as it places our future back into our hands no preset path no branching of time to muddle your brain and make you crazy thinking about it (lol).

Anyways we need a more complete theory of gravity before we can try and truly define what time is. Super massive objects distort space and so necissarily time is also warped it slows down near the massive object. Why? well we dont know why because we dont what it is that gives mass therefor we have no real idea of why it effects time. The two are inextricably linked. We just need the rest of the gravity puzzle

lets cross our fingers for the boys at cern



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by MR1159
 


I like your explanation MR1159! I agree that time appears malleable as far as the conscious awareness of it is concerned. Is there an etymological link between the temporal lobe and temporal mechanics.. I always assumed there was but admittedly, I've been too lazy to ever look it up. (Naughty IRM.)

IRM


[edit on 18/2/09 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:27 AM
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reply to post by constantwonder
 


Hmmm, that's really interesting. Time as a layer cake! Sounds delicious too!


You've given me a lot to consider... which is best not done on an empty stomach. I'll think about this over tea and get back to you soon! Thanks for your valuable input my friend!

IRM



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


sorry about the shirt babe! Im here to make you laugh at me



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


sorry about the shirt babe! Im here to make you laugh at me


You're forgiven honey bunch!


I will admit that I'm somewhat a conservative 'old schooler' when it comes to things such as Astrophysics etc. However, I'm prepared to change my mind when satisfactory evidence for the theories are solidified. There's still a lot of transient numbers on the blackboard.

IRM



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by constantwonder
If einstein had it right then all of space exists right now which means all of time also exsists now and we merely see a 3 dimensional cross section of our four dimensional life. In other words you exisist at this moment at the moment of your birth, the moment of your death and at every single point inbetween.

in quantum physics . . . one way is the branching river where decisions made by you chance and the actions of others causes time to branch every quantum fluctuation creates an entirely new timeline so you can exsist in multiple states on multiple time lines simultaneously.

Again this is troubling to me because doesnt that mean i may not be the whole of me


I see it as a combination of these two.

Take the first part you mention - all we see is a 3 dimensional cross-section of our 4th dimensional life. Now take that 4th dimension life and plop it down in the river of branching time. That 4th dimension lifeline is just a cross-section of our 5th dimension existence. Here, there are branches all along the length that 4th dimension lifeline which represent choices, chance, etc. Taken in total they represent our lifeline branching into every possible outcome and then branching again and again and again.

To me, it returns free will and doesn't leave us in a pre-determined world. Every possible scenario exists in potential, but only our choices here in the 3rd dimension determine what becomes our experienced reality.

Or, you know, something like that.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:04 AM
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Time is a perception time is not consistent we all ready know its not the same every where. Time can be altered we've proven it slows faster you go. So in truth time is you moving through possibilities.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by constantwonder

This is where it gets interesting. . . in quantum physics depending on which theory turns out to be correct time could be interperated in a couple of ways. . . one way is the branching river where decisions made by you chance and the actions of others causes time to branch every quantum fluctuation creates an entirely new timeline so you can exsist in multiple states on multiple time lines simultaneously.

Again this is troubling to me because doesnt that mean i may not be the whole of me which timeline is me is your essence the same in each timeline. . . what if the timelines cross what if i die in one do i live on in another?


The quantum theory has always flabbergasted me too. I'd like to think that multiple me's only exist in potential - and that they cancel out when a choice is made.

I couldn't fathom a universe/multiverse where each time all of us have to make some type of decision, millions of alternate universes are created... and then each time the billions of other me's and you's make a decision they create billions more alternate universes ad infinitum. Makes me dizzy and I start to wonder where all the mass would come from to maintain such ongoing creation. I'm sure it doesn't actually happen that way though. Or am I? I'm sure one of me doesn't...


IRM



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr

So in truth time is you moving through possibilities.


I like that... simple and sweet. Very poetic dragonridr!

IRM



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


God you were so much better at saying it than me....
moving through possiblities...excellent stuff.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 09:32 AM
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Well, Wouldnt "Now" truly be considered the past? You really dont ever see the present, just things as they were. Light takes time to travel from one point to another. We may think it is the present, but simply something that was milliseconds ago, or minutes, depending...

Other than that, I would have to say time is a relative term, seeing as it can be affected by gravity by being slowed down and sped up, never being constant. If you think about it, time should fly by a bit quicker, if you go by the older stuff, the faster you go, the slower time gets and all. We are traveling through space pretty quickly.

And Other than those, For every choice that can possibly be made, there is an alternate reality for. Thats saying that we have a pre-determined future, but is it really?

rekar



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 

It all came from conciousness, time comes from your thoughts, there is no past no future, these are all in your head, there is only now and by living just for now we influence changes in the past aswell as the future. Right here right now is what i try to remind myself of when i wonder of into past or future.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by rekar
 


Good points mate! However, if you read the posts before your own, you will see that these theories have already been discussed.

IRM



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 02:18 AM
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You might want to check out Peter Lynds.

I find that his observation , basically that "Time" is merely a convenient fallacy created as the result of of an imperfect perceptual apperatus, to be the closest description to my experience.


Time does not actually exist in descrete units, it cannot be divided up into smaller and smaler "bits" as we try to describe the universe we are able to perceive with our senses and tools. (especially since our tools themselves are merely products and extentions of our senses!).

Time comes from nowhere and goes nowhere, except in as much as we are currently able to relate to it. Time does not Flow: if anything, Time simply Is.


Disturbing? Concerned that this might somehow violate "free will" by imposing "Pre-Destiny"?

Not really.


If you must in some way visualize "Time", try this:


Imagine the smallest division of Time possible as a discrete bubble (Sorry Mr. Lynds!).

Now, instead of "stringing" these "moments" together as you would imagine a string of pearls, or beads on a chain, lump them all together in one big globular mass.

This next part is the most difficult to imagine.

In this mass, this globular lump of Time, every discrete "moment" is caple of being in immediate contact with every other "moment".

Our experience of time's "linearity", the flow of "time" from past through present (Now) to future, is realized as the "path" we preceive as we pick a route from moment to moment.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by Bhadhidar
 


Interesting Bhadhilar. I felt this way when I was young... not so much the string of pearls thing but thoughts where the universe was just a space where things happened. Kind of a neutral canvas. Through my teens, I thought of time as a man made construct to calibrate existence. Of course I was scoffed at by friends who would point to their watch and say "What's this then?"

I got into a deep conversation with a gentleman one day when I was at work - and he turned out to be a physicist. He didn't laugh at the idea when I ran it by him which lead me to think that it may be closer to the truth than I had imagined.

Still, theories are like a-holes.... everyones got one! I remain rather neutral as far as theories on time are concerned. Sure, we can still use it as a measurement but I don't discount that it may be illusory.

I'd like to hear more about this theory you have shared with us though. Any references you can throw our way... websites, books, DVD's etc.

IRM


[edit on 24/2/09 by InfaRedMan]



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