Japan Now In A Depression

This doesn't look good for our Aussie and Japanese friends... I wonder what the impact to the U.S. will be?

Japan plunges into depression

* February 17, 2009

AUSTRALIA'S biggest and most reliable customer, Japan, has plunged into depression, with federal Treasurer Wayne Swan now warning of the worst global downturn "in our lifetimes".

Japan's economy shrank an annualised 12.7 per cent over the December quarter, its worst result since the 1974 oil shock.

Japan is by far Australia's biggest export customer, accounting for one in every five container ships that leave Australia's shores.

The new figures put it among the worst-hit casualties of the global crisis.

The annualised contraction of 12.7 per cent, or 3.3 per cent in quarterly terms, dwarfs those of the United States and Europe and is much worse than anything that happened to Japan during its so-called "lost decade" of recession in the 1990s.

[edit on 16/2/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

This from the link above:

The collapse in growth fits the profile of a depression — a deep recession in which annual GDP falls by 10 per cent or more.

Australia's other big customer, China, has had its growth rate almost halved from 13 to 6.8 per cent.

[edit on 16/2/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

and so now it begins.
We have seen a few small stores im my area closing down, but unfortunately our town based to much of its relience on Japan for tourism and this will surely close a few more tourism stores which will have the flow on effect,
less people in hotels, less demand in resturaunts, reduced produce demand from resturaunts.
The dominoes are now beginning to fall slowly, but it won't be long before they start falling much much quicker.

Well in January the japanese bought more cars then Americans did. i know they are slightly recessed but they are still doing better then we are.

So I don't know which report is accurate.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Well in January the japanese bought more cars then Americans did. i know they are slightly recessed but they are still doing better then we are.

So I don't know which report is accurate.

But, you see, that's the problem here. We aren't buying their cars or much of anything else and so their GDP is tanking. A depression is a collapse in growth by 10% or more and they have formally declared a depression.

[edit on 16/2/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

If you read what economist say about Japan for the last 20 years is that it is always recessed or hopeless by our standards of measurement. Most of these guys talk about the reason that Japan's economy keeps chugging along so well is that it functions based on saving & exportation rather than consumption. This drastically lowers GDP (saved money is not spent) and...

oh just look up real economist before I catch myself in a liquidity trap of reasoning.

Originally posted by SonOfChaos

If you read what economist say about Japan for the last 20 years is that it is always recessed or hopeless by our standards of measurement. Most of these guys talk about the reason that Japan's economy keeps chugging along so well is that it functions based on saving & exportation rather than consumption. This drastically lowers GDP (saved money is not spent) and...

oh just look up real economist before I catch myself in a liquidity trap of reasoning.

I'm not arguing just trying to understand what you mean. I see the statement: "Japan's economy keeps chugging along so well ... based on saving & exportation rather than consumption" as contradictory. If you're exporting then you're producing, and if you're producing then you're spending money to produce the items, if you're spending money then you're not saving. In order to get the money to save you have to SELL something to someone else. If nobody's BUYING your product, then you are not SELLING anything.

My statement came across poorly cause it was worded poorly. Traditional indicators used to measure other economies are not as reflective of the actual state of Japan as they would reflect another country. Basically they have been in continuous recession since the early 90's by traditional numbers...

Japan is a net creditor and exports far more than it imports and the population does not have large levels of consumption, i.e. the population tends to save money instead of buy new TV's...which is especially weird if you've ever seen a Japanese TV show on youtube with how commercialized everything is... Even with all this exportation, Japan seriously underutilizes domestic production, basically, high levels of unemployment for the last 20 years despite lots of production & exportation. Every indicator has said Japan is doing terrible for the last 20 years, but it has done fine by most indicators, quality of life, healthy population, high technology widely available, low crime & poverty, giant panty eating robots(saw it in an anime...it was AWESOME!!). Plus with the savings rate being high those moneys go into purchasing debt instruments, which make money from interest etc. from foreign countries. and large companies, Japan makes money using many methods that do not involve exporting traditional goods such as intellectual and financial products.

What is particularly remarkable about the debate over Japan is that it is a case where straightforward economic analysis and policy orthodoxy are in direct conflict.

Above is a Krugman quote that is echoed by all kinds of economist on all different stances on economics. Straightforward economic analysis does not work well with Japan, as in the numbers SAY their is a depression, but is the country EXPERIENCING a depression, Japan operates on a vastly different economic principles than all other countries.

Krugman gives a lot of information in a series of articles relating to Japan, they may make your head explode.

web.mit.edu...

I don't doubt things are tough over their, but the numbers have been non-representative for so long that I'm not certain that the term "depression" means the same to Japan as us. Hope this helps some, I'm still trying to make sense of a lot of it myself, but when "Japan" and "economy" comes up in the same sentence you should scratch your head and look close cause it may run on vastly different principles.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by SonOfChaos]

[edit on 18-2-2009 by SonOfChaos]